Wells and Schultz

[stefoid]

Wells and Schultz. Correct me if Im wrong but isnt that what you guys paid for Carey? Or was it Wells and Johnson?

I remember last year getting caned by the likes of stiffy for suggesting that the Crows risked way too much by betting an ageing damaged KPP could pull them over the line into a premiership.

Would like your thoughts now.

 

[Mong]

Originally posted by stefoid
Wells and Schultz. Correct me if Im wrong but isnt that what you guys paid for Carey? Or was it Wells and Johnson?

Just Johnson.

 

[conVINCEd]

We traded Johnson to Richmond for the Wells pick (#4 which became #2) and on-traded that pick and another first round pick to the Roos for Carey.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Originally posted by stefoid
Wells and Schultz. Correct me if Im wrong but isnt that what you guys paid for Carey? Or was it Wells and Johnson?

I remember last year getting caned by the likes of stiffy for suggesting that the Crows risked way too much by betting an ageing damaged KPP could pull them over the line into a premiership.

Would like your thoughts now.

Refer to all the other Carey threads, as we have discussed this to death.

 

[stefoid]

I meant you gave up a draft pick 12 which could have been used to draft Paul Johnson. But I was right in the first place, it was Schultz you could have got for pick 12.

I am meaning to say that had you used the draft pick 2 you got for johnson, and kept your number 12, you would now have wells and schultz lining up for you, rather than Carey and nobody.

 

[Portia]

They wouldn't have got the number 2 without trading the 12, stefoid.

Crows 1st round + Crows 2nd round + Kane Johnson
Richmond 1st round + Richmond 2nd round + Jason Torney

 

[Mong]

Originally posted by stefoid
you would now have wells and schultz lining up for you, rather than Carey and nobody.

I'm not the biggest Torney fan either but that's a bit harsh, isn't it?

 

[stefoid]

Schultz may turn out to be a lemon, but hes not significantly less effective for richmond than carey has been for adelaide.

 

[DaveW]

Originally posted by Porthos
They wouldn't have got the number 2 without trading the 12, stefoid.

Crows 1st round + Crows 2nd round + Kane Johnson
Richmond 1st round + Richmond 2nd round + Jason Torney

Adelaide and Richmond also traded 3rd rounders.

Two ways of looking at this:

a) the "on-trade" with North Melbourne meant getting Carey and giving away Daniel Wells (Richmond's original 1st rounder) and Kris Shore (Richmond's original 2nd rounder)

or

b) the "net trade" from the whole Richmond/North Melbourne deal was getting Jason Torney, Wayne Carey and Luke Jericho (Richmond's original 3rd rounder) and giving away Kane Johnson, Jay Schulz (our original 1st rounder), Darren Walsh* (our original 2nd rounder) and Tim Fleming (our original 3rd rounder)

* = the player that Essendon took with a pick that Richmond on-traded to them; presumably for Blumfield

Anyway, its either a) or b) but not both. It makes little sense to say Wells and Schulz. Since we were never in a position to claim both these players.

 

[Lidge]

Either way you look at it you got 'shafted' and I imagine most Crows supporters would be 'dirtier' on the whole deal now, than say 9 months ago.

But then again - not as bad as Port in the most recent off season, allowing Nick Stevens to go for nothing.

 

[stefoid]

Cant really say they 'got' shafted. They shafted themselves.

 

[Tas]

Originally posted by Lidge
Either way you look at it you got 'shafted' and I imagine most Crows supporters would be 'dirtier' on the whole deal now, than say 9 months ago.

But then again - not as bad as Port in the most recent off season, allowing Nick Stevens to go for nothing.

At the time of the deal it was for pick 4, not 2. It was only Carlton's dumb-arseness that had it turn into pick 2 after the deal. If that was found out before the trade deals I am sure the clubs would have had a different look on things.

Pick 4 of the draft which was a player the Bulldogs got broke his leg and has not played a game for them as far as I know. So is Carey better than someone who hasn't played a game? In my opinion he is.

Draft players can be very much hit or miss. We, kangaroos, delisted our 1st round draft of 2001 in Dylan Smith who was 6th overall. They can often turn into lemons.

If you are looking at picking a top 2 or 3 draft player then the pick is worth a fair bit, but after the first few players it is pretty much russian roulette. You might strike gold, but often strike fool's gold.

At the kangaroos our averge overall draft pick for our players is 30. There is alot of good talent that people pass over.

 

[Mong]

Originally posted by Tas
Draft players can be very much hit or miss. We, kangaroos, delisted our 1st round draft of 2001 in Dylan Smith who was 6th overall.

While in the same year we drafted Graham Johncock at 67.

So by passing on Johncock you effectively handed him to us for nothing.

You win some you lose some. You have to look at recruiting at a whole and not just pick out one good move or one bad move.

Every club has got stories of good recruiting. We got McLeod for a bargain. And every club has got the horror stories. We like every club let Pavlich slip through.

I guess the reason we hear so much about the Carey trade is because of what he meant to the Roos and getting a good deal out of that was important for the Roos fans morale, regardless of how poorly they fared with other trades (like Pickett who was given away cheaply).

As I said, you win some, you lose some.


****

 

[Lidge]

Don't think Pickett was given away cheaply. He was going home to SA at the end of last season anyway when his contract was up.

We secured Leigh Brown for Pickett. 21 yrs of age, 70+ games experience, will be a 10 year player and as you saw last week, the kid can play a bit.

While Choppy was one of my fave players at North - that deal wasn't too bad

 

[Portia]

Of course the fact that the Roos got Brown instead of Schammer...

 

[Lidge]

Originally posted by Porthos
Of course the fact that the Roos got Brown instead of Schammer...

More than happy with Leroy thanks Porthos!

Blokes with is size and ability that can play down the spine don't exactly fall out of trees.

 

[Tas]

Originally posted by ****
While in the same year we drafted Graham Johncock at 67.

So by passing on Johncock you effectively handed him to us for nothing.

You win some you lose some. You have to look at recruiting at a whole and not just pick out one good move or one bad move.

Every club has got stories of good recruiting. We got McLeod for a bargain. And every club has got the horror stories. We like every club let Pavlich slip through.

I guess the reason we hear so much about the Carey trade is because of what he meant to the Roos and getting a good deal out of that was important for the Roos fans morale, regardless of how poorly they fared with other trades (like Pickett who was given away cheaply).

As I said, you win some, you lose some.


****

I agree with you 100%. If every trade deal worked out fantastically most teams would have a very full list and unable to draft anyone else.

Some of our best players have been overall pick 60+ so I think securing early picks is a little over-rated. If you can find someone you need for the team its good but there are no guarantees, you win some you lose some.

 

[naughty monkey]

Originally posted by Lidge
Don't think Pickett was given away cheaply. He was going home to SA at the end of last season anyway when his contract was up.

We secured Leigh Brown for Pickett. 21 yrs of age, 70+ games experience, will be a 10 year player and as you saw last week, the kid can play a bit.

While Choppy was one of my fave players at North - that deal wasn't too bad

Amazing contrast between your attitude towards Pickett and that of other North supporters held with Carey.
Can't for the life of me see the difference.

This is not a criticism, just meant as an observation.

My own opinion is that what NMFC lost on the Pickett deal they more than made up for with Carey.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Originally posted by naughty monkey
Amazing contrast between your attitude towards Pickett and that of other North supporters held with Carey.
Can't for the life of me see the difference.

This is not a criticism, just meant as an observation.

My own opinion is that what NMFC lost on the Pickett deal they more than made up for with Carey.

I agree, you could look it at like this:

Crows got done by the Roos over the Carey deal;
Roos got done by Port over the Pickett deal;
Port got done by Blues over the Stevens non-deal (though they can thank the Pies ); &
Blues got done by Crows over Massie-Eccles deal.

Swings & round-a-bouts...

 

[Tas]

Originally posted by Kane McGoodwin
I agree, you could look it at like this:

Crows got done by the Roos over the Carey deal;
Roos got done by Port over the Pickett deal;
Port got done by Blues over the Stevens non-deal (though they can thank the Pies ); &
Blues got done by Crows over Massie-Eccles deal.

Swings & round-a-bouts...

Well, we got done on Bell deal aswell. We got Sinclair for Bell I think and whilst he is an okay player he aint no Bell. We definitely did not get market value for Pickett either, who did we get? M Stevens. He aint no Pickett either.

It doesn't bother me, Bell wanted to go home to Fremantle and Pickett wanted to go home and play with Port. I think its much easier to draw interstate players to the club when they know they are not going to be treated like garbage by the club if they eventually want to go home.

If I was an interstate player and was looking at clubs like Hawthorn, Port and others that do the dirty on the players then I wouldn't want to go there, wouldn't want to be part of deals that involves going to those kinds of clubs.

I do not understand the clubs that will not deal and end up losing the player and get nothing just our of spite.

I know alot of you guys think you got robbed on the Carey deal, and in hindsight it hasn't been as good as it could have been, I think it had potential to be a good deal because you needed some grunt up forward and he was an all-austraian captain. I think pick 4 and 14 at the time wasn't excessive, there was nothing in that range that would have been walk-in forwards for the Crows and that is something you really needed.

The rest is history, but I still think you can get alot out of Carey if you play him at FF and not at CHF. He just does not have the leg speed anymore or the spring to deal with that congested area of the ground. At FF he will kick goals and will contest and bring the ball down to the ground which will give the small forwards opportunity to goal.

 

[conVINCEd]

Believe me Tas, us Crow fans know this, its just unfortunate that Garry won't admit it.