West Coast - When will the AFL step in?

[bzparkes]

Is he as powerful and explosive as Wardlaw???

Yes.

He also doesn't blow out his hamstrings every time he bursts out of a pack.

 

[bzparkes]

Was there for the taking.
But sounds like the club knew its culture wasn’t strong enough to keep him.

Also explains overlooking the better talent in Murphy Reid for local boy Bo Allan.

For the millionth time, how would WCE have ended up with Sheezel when in every single scenario North had the pick before us?

 

[Rich01]

For the millionth time, how would WCE have ended up with Sheezel when in every single scenario North had the pick before us?

I can only tell you who was ACTUALLY picked with the one you traded away.

I can’t tell you what would have occurred in other scenarios that didn’t play out.

 

[longdonkey]

Its a long way back when you're at the bottom. Its difficult to trade because nobody wants to go to a club bottoming out and when someone does you send up overpaying. At the draft you have to wait a while to see what you actually have.

Anyway West Coast have enough miners and gold money that eventually they'll come back just because they are a financial powerhouse with all those cashed up bogans.

 

[bzparkes]

I can only tell you who was ACTUALLY picked with the one you traded away.

I can’t tell you what would have occurred in other scenarios that didn’t play out.

And?

Again, we never would've had the opportunity if we kept pick 2, so continuously saying "You could've picked Sheezel!!!" is getting tiring.

 

[Obeanie1]

Crows never got given any assistance - and we lost Noah Anderson when AFL decided to give Gold Coast another draft pick out of nowhere

Got stiffed on Brad Crouch compo and then the AFL wouldn't let us trade with St Kilda to organise a cap dump to allow them to give him more (which, in itself I am fine with) but then they allowed Geelong to buy pick #7 off Gold Coast after winning the flag in a salary dump!!??!

We were horseshit for a few years but now we've rebuilt without any extra assistance beyond the picks you get for finishing down bottom

They can do the same

Are the current premiers getting assistance every year?

Swans?

GWS?

And yes Gold Coast as well.

You all good with the top teams getting assistance every single year?

Eagles don't need prioriry picks. They need extra list spots and develipment coaches.

How many players have the Crows lost to concussion retirements and LTI's?

Now the Vic media are jumping up and down about a potential pick 2 compo if Allan moves to the current premiers.

Lots of click bait shallow arguments being written on these subjects ATM.

Don't want priority picks.

The media want you to think otherwise and react.

 

[Obeanie1]

Its a long way back when you're at the bottom. Its difficult to trade because nobody wants to go to a club bottoming out and when someone does you send up overpaying. At the draft you have to wait a while to see what you actually have.

Anyway West Coast have enough miners and gold money that eventually they'll come back just because they are a financial powerhouse with all those cashed up bogans.

Please explain how the Eagles use all that cash to rebuild?

The AFL policies don't allow rich clubs to out spend poor clubs.

Fact.

 

[Obeanie1]

For the millionth time, how would WCE have ended up with Sheezel when in every single scenario North had the pick before us?

The kid made it very clear he did not want to leave Melbourne.

Flight risk is something interstate clubs assess every draft.

Amazing how one eyed posters just disregard this as an issue.

Worpel did the same.

Its basically draft tanpering by players and player managers which the AFL allows.

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

One aspect of the AFL stepping in to be honest is to let us use our assets

Prime example is Eagles wanting to fly to and from games with a private jet. AFL rejected this a few times due to the commercial partnership with Virgin (think its still Virgin nowadays) and not wanting us to have that as a advantage over others

Greg Swann has now come in and said we need to use the assets at our disposal.... a private plane is a asset.

So question should be. Can Eagles fly the team around to each game on a private jet or should the AFL say no?

 

[Freomaniac]

Is that still possible?
Would need to absolutely nail this year and next year draft but thats looking very challenging given this year's draft crop doesn't doesn't look amazing.
2030 looks highly unlikely

Had west coast nailed their draft picks in 2021, 2022 and 2023, I would of said it would of been possible.

I actually predicted they would make finals in 2027 or 2028. Then win a flag by 2030

 

[THE_GUN]

Expecting pick 2 for Allen is the minimum.

Really the bottom team should have a expanded rookie list for 3yrs as a base. It gives teams like eagles some flexibility in bringing in some mature players to cover their list issues. Maybe even being able to pre-select their F/S & NGA's as B rookies. Lastly Priority pick package as end of 1st and end of 1st next year similar to the package north got.

Why does there need to be a limit on the rookie list for any club ?

The most stupid rule you can find regarding list management
the shit teams have the same cap as the top teams yet have no stars to pay and end up over paying kids just to meet the min cap floor of 95%

Why wouldnt you just allow them to take how many kids they want as rookies provided they remain in the cap
This would allow lower clubs to churn through more rookies to find players to improve and become more competitive quicker without actually putting their hand out for assistance to be given

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

Had west coast nailed their draft picks in 2021, 2022 and 2023, I would of said it would of been possible.

I actually predicted they would make finals in 2027 or 2028. Then win a flag by 2030

I dont think many people would have predicted in 2022 that by Round 20 2025 we would have no Gov, Barrass, Waterman, Allen and Yeo in our side when coming up with a thought to be fair.

We are playing without our entire spine in that sense. Its been a bigger issue then people realise

 

[geelong_crazy26]

They need a lot of help. Shocking levels of despair. Been going on since half way of 2021 their levels of badness. They seriously need about 5 top picks at least just to build something.

When will the AFL step in and save them?

Why would the AFL give compensation to a club that is about to hand a 20 yo 4 million dollars over 2 years averaging 19 touches a game and then a further 20 million over 9 years?? That is close to whopping 24 million dollar contract for 11 years for a kid who has barely shown anything. Nobody in Victoria is wildly considering a deal that stupid.

The AFL should say fix up your poor administration then we can look at helping out.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

father/son is not assistance.
it's a long held tradition in the game and I love it.
Yes, some teams have benefited from it more then others, but thats life.
Tell your ex-players to have sons who are talented.

Random occurrences like F/S will come and go for all clubs over time. It will eventually even put because it’s purely random. Each club has ex players, nobody is disadvantaged with such a concept.

What is disadvantaged is academies. Not all have development academies and it eventually will go. The system can’t achieve equity as long as we have academies

 

[longdonkey]

Please explain how the Eagles use all that cash to rebuild?

The AFL policies don't allow rich clubs to out spend poor clubs.

Fact.

1. You always have capacity to pay 100% of your salary cap
2. You have the ability to use all of your small cap to endure you have the best support staff
3. You can pay for the best facilities available not only for players but supporters and you always draw a crowd
4. No matter how much you stink on field you are looked at as a big club. A player like Warner wouldn't look at North or St Kilda.
5. If West Coast were inclined to participate in nefarious off the books stuff like some clubs may have done they have the corporate backing to do that.
6. Just a few posts above talk of private jets - should be allowed.

 

[Obeanie1]

1. You always have capacity to pay 100% of your salary cap
2. You have the ability to use all of your small cap to endure you have the best support staff
3. You can pay for the best facilities available not only for players but supporters and you always draw a crowd
4. No matter how much you stink on field you are looked at as a big club. A player like Warner wouldn't look at North or St Kilda.
5. If West Coast were inclined to participate in nefarious off the books stuff like some clubs may have done they have the corporate backing to do that.

1. Every club needs to pay 100% of the cap. 5% can be deferred but eventually paid. So you are wrong here.
2. Soft cap is the same for all clubs. So having more money means nothing.
3. Yes facilities can be invested in. And they have. The Eagles facilities will always be up with the best.
4. How many gun trades have the Eagles landed in 30 odd years? They may be a big club but travel shortens careers and earning capacity of players. That's a fact.
5. Lol. Really. Your argument is the Eagles are so rich they can cheat the system if they really want to. That would be one of the most stupid posts I've ever read. EVER.

Go read some history about Carlton and salary cap cheating / Brown paper bags. Carlton was caught and punished losing draft picks. That set them back 10 years and haven't achieved anything since.

So facilities is basically it. And they already have state of the art facilities.

 

[longdonkey]

1. Every club needs to pay 100% of the cap. 5% can be deferred but eventually paid. So you are wrong here.
2. Soft cap is the same for all clubs. So having more money means nothing.
3. Yes facilities can be invested in. And they have. The Eagles facilities will always be up with the best.
4. How many gun trades have the Eagles landed in 30 odd years? They may be a big club but travel shortens careers and earning capacity of players. That's a fact.
5. Lol. Really. Your argument is the Eagles are so rich they can cheat the system if they really want to. That would be one of the most stupid posts I've ever read. EVER.

Go read some history about Carlton and salary cap cheating / Brown paper bags. Carlton was caught and punished losing draft picks. That set them back 10 years and haven't achieved anything since.

So facilities is basically it. And they already have state of the art facilities.

I look at it this way when Port bottomed out in 2010-11 it had more to do with money than anything else. We had an assistant coach who was from the Ammos not even the SANFL. Our turnover was so bad due to the dud deal we got from the SANFL.
This is a problem West Coast will never have. Now our finances have been fixed we just need to make sure we don't bottom out playing wise in a huge way. West Coast wouldn't be so bad without the injuries you've had but the Kelly deal was always too much of a risk.

 

[Citizen Erazed]

Since when is on field success the most important thing? This is a business, and we are rich. We will continue to be rich. Kicking a few balls between the big sticks isn't going to change that.

But in all seriousness, the priority pick debate is tiring. Based on performance, no-one can realistically argue the Eagles shouldn't receive some form of draft capital based on recent performance and other examples where the AFL have done exactly that for other teams. The argument of self-sabotage to get to this position is not an argument. All the other teams who gained assistance was as a result of poor management in some capacity.

We are also somewhat unique in that we have had bad luck with concussion retirements for some pretty important players, the ongoing travel burden and the (potential) relationship of that travel burden on our senior players falling off an absolute cliff or having other injury problems.

But yeah, we traded for Tim Kelly

11

Tim Kelly

Age

31

Ht

184cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

23.6

5star

K

13.5

5star

HB

10.1

5star

M

3.4

3star

T

4.0

5star

CL

4.9

5star

D

19.9

5star

K

12.3

5star

HB

7.6

4star

M

3.1

3star

T

4.7

5star

CL

3.6

4star

D

21.6

5star

K

10.4

4star

HB

11.2

5star

M

2.8

3star

T

3.8

5star

CL

3.8

5star

so suck it up.

For the record, I don't want a priority pick. I do however want to witness the complete melts from Maguire and his merry bunch of idiots in the media if we do.

 

[Piggy Smalls]

Still can't believe they chose Hawthorn's first over Carlton's in the Barrass trade.

It feels like they need someone slightly better credentialled than Don Pyke steering the ship more than they need draft assistance.

 

[Corkintheocean]

Still can't believe they chose Hawthorn's first over Carlton's in the Barrass trade.

It feels like they need someone slightly better credentialled than Don Pyke steering the ship more than they need draft assistance.

This is the number 1 indicator to me that those who are running the club have NFI. There should be sackings off the back of that decision.

 

[THE_GUN]

This is the number 1 indicator to me that those who are running the club have NFI. There should be sackings off the back of that decision.

Agree

Phil needs to be sacked
How can he post on bigfooty and make list calls at the same time

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

Still can't believe they chose Hawthorn's first over Carlton's in the Barrass trade.

It feels like they need someone slightly better credentialled than Don Pyke steering the ship more than they need draft assistance.

TBh we don’t deserve a priority pick based on this in my opinion. It’s why I’d prefer more soft cap money in a way. Need to clear out the boys club

 

[Scotland]

That's my point though - they get rewarded more for losing free agents along with a huge disincentive to chase them from other clubs.

Im not having a go at West Coast here, I'm having a go at the AFL system.

End compo picks for losing free agents.

The pool of free agents that you would consider trading pick 2 for each year is tiny if not 0.

The equivalent players last year to Allen were Perryman and Battle. This year Sam Draper. 3 players, none which move the needle for WC and none of which would come here anyway.

The system has been cooked for 13 years now. Injury aside the best thing for WC is to keep a 26 year old 100 gamer, but the prize on offer not to is too big.

 

[THE_GUN]

TBh we don’t deserve a priority pick based on this in my opinion. It’s why I’d prefer more soft cap money in a way. Need to clear out the boys club

Im in Favour of giving the eagles PP's
Your team needs mature senior players to support the kids

a simlar PP package to what North had would be perfect to assist with acquiring these types

 

[Scotland]

A priority pick isn't going to improve WC in 2026 anyway. You could give us 1-2-3 and we'll still be bottom 4 fodder.

Gold Coast picked Lukosius and Rankine in 2018. Went from 4 wins to 3. Added Rowell and Anderson in 2019. Went from 3 wins to 5, though with an absurd percentage of 90 for that many wins. They finally look like playing finals in 2025.

The AFL's discretionary 'maybe we'll help you next year, or the year after, or never ever because you won a flag that time' helps no one. What is the point of providing assistance years down the track? Giving WC pick 1 in 2025 would be the equivalent of giving Brisbane pick 1 in 2018 after they already spent 5 years sucking and 4 years in the bottom 4. Oh you've already spent 4 years getting games into Hipwood, McLuggage, Andrews, Berry etc. here have another 18 year old. The Lions could basically be where they are now having traded pick 5 for Lachie Neale

9

Lachie Neale

Age

32

Ht

177cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

27.0

5star

K

11.5

4star

HB

15.5

5star

M

4.0

4star

T

3.7

5star

CL

5.9

5star

D

28.3

5star

K

13.9

5star

HB

14.4

5star

M

4.6

4star

T

4.0

5star

CL

5.9

5star

D

12.0

3star

K

4.6

2star

HB

7.4

5star

M

2.0

3star

T

1.0

3star

CL

0.4

3star

plus having Sam Walsh

18

Sam Walsh

Age

25

Ht

184cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

25.1

5star

K

13.5

5star

HB

11.6

5star

M

5.1

5star

T

3.2

5star

CL

3.4

5star

No current season stats available

D

26.2

5star

K

15.4

5star

HB

10.8

5star

M

6.0

5star

T

3.2

5star

CL

4.8

5star

or one of the Kings or whoever. And none of that changes the fact they were in the bottom 4 for 4 years.

If the system isn't aimed at improving teams after 1-2 years then bin it. If WC win 1 game again next year a PP won't help. If WC win 10 games then the case for a PP goes away. So the PP serves what purpose...?

If the AFL were serious about improving teams at the bottom they would go back to having uncontracted player selections like they had when Freo and Port joined. Effectively just opening up UFA to a larger pool of players.