West Coast - where to now?

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Would package Darling and Gaff while they still have high value for some draft picks. Topped up in the mistaken belief that they were serious contenders but it's time to look at the future now. Not sure what else you can really say about them, oldest team in the comp yet they're a distinctly mid-table side. Time to reload.
 
Their list isn't that bad but its in need of a bit of a clean out. Have a bunch of guys aged 28 and over that seem like their best footy is behind them despite not being that old.

Desperately need to bring in some pace to that midfield. Carrying a combination of Priddis, Mitchell and Gaff is way too slow. Shuey carries too much of the load as the midfielder with pace.

I still think they could potentially challenge again in the next 4 or so years whilst they still have Kennedy if they move quickly enough. Guys like Shuey, McGovern, Yeo and Gaff will lead the next generation and are in their prime right now and will be for years to come. Yeo breaking out the way he has is a massive boon to their list.

A few quick midfielders and pacy small forwards could quickly improve this list. Pacy small forwards aren't hard to find - they could address that in the next year or two. Pacy midfielders might be a bit harder and constrained by draft resources.

They should have tried to trade some of their key defenders last year whilst they had an excess and they were a year younger. Could have gotten some good value and leveraged it to improve their midfield via the draft. May have kind of missed the boat now as I can't see teams lining up for McKenzie or Schofield now. The longer they went without being played and being less than inspiring on their return the more their value drops.

McGovern and Barass is probably the future of their key backs. I don't think the McGovern forward thing is more than a stop-gap solution but he's decent enough up there and if needed could cover for a year or two as they develop a young forward. A major concern would be I don't know if they have any young developing key forwards of note. They don't come cheap and I think its become abundantly clear that Darling is not a #1 forward at AFL level - he's fine as a 2nd or preferably 3rd tall forward but I think it would be unreasonable to expect much more than that given his history.
 

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Here's a possible WC best 22 at the start of 2018, with no players over 30. Ages in brackets are as of January 1, 2018.

B: Jackson Nelson (21) Tom Barass (22) Sharrod Wellingham (29)
HB: Shannon Hurn (30) Jeremy McGovern (25) Brad Sheppard (26)
C: Andrew Gaff (25) Dominic Sheed (22) Liam Duggan (21)
HF: Lewis Jetta* (28) Jack Darling (25) Jamie Cripps (25)
F: Scott Lycett (25) Josh Kennedy (30) Josh Hill (28)
R: Nic Naitanui (27) Elliot Yeo (24) Luke Shuey (27)
Int: Will Schofield (28) Jack Redden (27) Chris Masten (28) Mark Hutchings (26)

* I've bagged the s**t out of Jetta since he arrived but he's been decent in the past month or so, so might actually offer something.

Let me know if I've overlooked anyone Suma Magic.

That 22 assumes Sam Mitchell, Matt Priddis, Drew Petrie, Sam Butler and Mark LeCras are gone or are at least no longer playing key roles. And I've left out Eric Mackenzie, who'll be 29 at the start of 2018 but might no longer be best 22. I also like Nathan Vardy (26) but I'm not sure if he gets a game ahead of Lycett or if we can essentially play three ruckmen.

I don't want to overstate it, but I think that team could still challenge for a top 4 spot in 2018, if they get their s**t together and play likes it counts every week.

But when I look at it, I'm not concerned about the age profile, as much as I am concerned about the second tier of the midfield being s**t. Basically, it returns us to the situation at the end of 2015, when we lost Scott Selwood and Matt Rosa but brought in Lewis Jetta and Jack Redden. It's still unclear whether that was a net benefit or not. Redden and Jetta have been awful at times, Masten is pretty goddamn average and Hutchings is a role player. So the puzzle isn't "OMG WC are too old, hit the panic button and start rebuilding". It's more like "How does WC improve its midfield to the point that the likes of Redden and Masten et al aren't regulars?"

As with any club, WC have to identify and promote players already on the list who can drive that improvement – while of course bringing in players from outside who add genuine value. WC would be hoping the likes of Malcolm Karpany (21), Tom Cole (20), Luke Partington (20) and Kurt Mutimer (20) can contribute to that. Those are the guys who have to come on quick enough to replace the dead wood.

Beyond considerations of personnel, the bigger issue is how WC get their heads right. They've served up some flakey bullshit since the end of 2015, interspliced with flashes of inspiration. Even in this week's loss to Melbourne, I thought they played pretty well. If they produced that every week, I'd be more optimistic.

So, in summary, the age profile is not as pressing as the question of organic improvement/astute trading, and actually delivering a brand of football consistently that stacks up against the best teams and when they go on the road. Those are the concerns, not the fact that Mitchell and Petrie et al are 30-something.
 
Righteo said:
Would package Darling and Gaff while they still have high value for some draft picks. Topped up in the mistaken belief that they were serious contenders but it's time to look at the future now. Not sure what else you can really say about them, oldest team in the comp yet they're a distinctly mid-table side. Time to reload.
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Both 25 this year. If they were 27/28 I'd be more inclined to move them on.

Darling has his knockers but our key forward cupboard is pretty bare after Kennedy.
 
Sweet Jesus said:
Here's a possible WC best 22 at the start of 2018, with no players over 30. Ages in brackets are as of January 1, 2018.

B: Jackson Nelson (21) Tom Barass (22) Sharrod Wellingham (29)
HB: Shannon Hurn (30) Jeremy McGovern (25) Brad Sheppard (26)
C: Andrew Gaff (25) Dominic Sheed (22) Liam Duggan (21)
HF: Lewis Jetta* (28) Jack Darling (25) Jamie Cripps (25)
F: Scott Lycett (25) Josh Kennedy (30) Josh Hill (28)
R: Nic Naitanui (27) Elliot Yeo (24) Luke Shuey (27)
Int: Will Schofield (28) Jack Redden (27) Chris Masten (28) Mark Hutchings (26)

* I've bagged the s**t out of Jetta since he arrived but he's been decent in the past month or so, so might actually offer something.

Let me know if I've overlooked anyone Suma Magic.

That 22 assumes Sam Mitchell, Matt Priddis, Drew Petrie, Sam Butler and Mark LeCras are gone or are at least no longer playing key roles. And I've left out Eric Mackenzie, who'll be 29 at the start of 2018 but might no longer be best 22. I also like Nathan Vardy (26) but I'm not sure if he gets a game ahead of Lycett or if we can essentially play three ruckmen.

I don't want to overstate it, but I think that team could still challenge for a top 4 spot in 2018, if they get their s**t together and play likes it counts every week.

But when I look at it, I'm not concerned about the age profile, as much as I am concerned about the second tier of the midfield being s**t. Basically, it returns us to the situation at the end of 2015, when we lost Scott Selwood and Matt Rosa but brought in Lewis Jetta and Jack Redden. It's still unclear whether that was a net benefit or not. Redden and Jetta have been awful at times, Masten is pretty goddamn average and Hutchings is a role player. So the puzzle isn't "OMG WC are too old, hit the panic button and start rebuilding". It's more like "How does WC improve its midfield to the point that the likes of Redden and Masten et al aren't regulars?"

As with any club, WC have to identify and promote players already on the list who can drive that improvement – while of course bringing in players from outside who add genuine value. WC would be hoping the likes of Malcolm Karpany (21), Tom Cole (20), Luke Partington (20) and Kurt Mutimer (20) can contribute to that. Those are the guys who have to come on quick enough to replace the dead wood.

Beyond considerations of personnel, the bigger issue is how WC get their heads right. They've served up some flakey bullshit since the end of 2015, interspliced with flashes of inspiration. Even in this week's loss to Melbourne, I thought they played pretty well. If they produced that every week, I'd be more optimistic.

So, in summary, the age profile is not as pressing as the question of organic improvement/astute trading, and actually delivering a brand of football consistently that stacks up against the best teams and when they go on the road. Those are the concerns, not the fact that Mitchell and Petrie et al are 30-something.
Click to expand...
Great summary and solid team no doubt, but given what we've seen with selection this year Mitchell, Priddis et al will all still be in the 22 next season.
 
Sweet Jesus said:
Here's a possible WC best 22 at the start of 2018, with no players over 30. Ages in brackets are as of January 1, 2018.

B: Jackson Nelson (21) Tom Barass (22) Sharrod Wellingham (29)
HB: Shannon Hurn (30) Jeremy McGovern (25) Brad Sheppard (26)
C: Andrew Gaff (25) Dominic Sheed (22) Liam Duggan (21)
HF: Lewis Jetta* (28) Jack Darling (25) Jamie Cripps (25)
F: Scott Lycett (25) Josh Kennedy (30) Josh Hill (28)
R: Nic Naitanui (27) Elliot Yeo (24) Luke Shuey (27)
Int: Will Schofield (28) Jack Redden (27) Chris Masten (28) Mark Hutchings (26)
Click to expand...

It really is a pretty solid team. Its only the midfield that looks pretty fragile with a few guys that are yet to prove they are more than c graders.
At least you'll have a great ruck division so that should help. If Sheed and Duggan could step up it would help a lot but I've yet to see they are going to be any better than solid players but they are still young.

Forward line is good but not as good as it was a few years back. I dunno about Lycett as a forward and the sooner you replace Hill the better.- maybe Rioli will take his spot. Realistically Lecras will still be playing but unfortunately its not the same Lecras that was a genuine star in his mid 20s. Ultimately the whole thing revolves around Kennedy though - there's no other stars in that lot.

Backline looks quite good and would be my favourite part of the team - probably could do with a bit more rebound and pace which again is the reason why Yeo has spent a lot of time down there. Its great for intercept marking though but we've already seen teams adapting to that as this year has gone on by targeting Eagles with short kicks into the forward 50. It will be interesting to see how that develops but I think generally they have one of the better defenses.
 
blitzer said:
It really is a pretty solid team. Its only the midfield that looks pretty fragile with a few guys that are yet to prove they are more than c graders.
At least you'll have a great ruck division so that should help. If Sheed and Duggan could step up it would help a lot but I've yet to see they are going to be any better than solid players but they are still young.

Forward line is good but not as good as it was a few years back. I dunno about Lycett as a forward and the sooner you replace Hill the better.- maybe Rioli will take his spot. Realistically Lecras will still be playing but unfortunately its not the same Lecras that was a genuine star in his mid 20s. Ultimately the whole thing revolves around Kennedy though - there's no other stars in that lot.

Backline looks quite good and would be my favourite part of the team - probably could do with a bit more rebound and pace which again is the reason why Yeo has spent a lot of time down there. Its great for intercept marking though but we've already seen teams adapting to that as this year has gone on by targeting Eagles with short kicks into the forward 50. It will be interesting to see how that develops but I think generally they have one of the better defenses.
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Agree with most of that, but have to say Sheed is well on his way to being a star. Averaged 26 disposals, 5 clearances, 5 tackles and 0.75 goals in the last month, and is one of our best kicks in the midfield.
 

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The team is unbalanced with Mitchell, Priddis and Sheed all in. Even Redden who has been poo is an inside player.

Sheed has been playing a lot outside and doing well, but it's not really his go. Ideally Sheed plays more in the centre square and we bring in another outside type.
 
Adz said:
Great summary and solid team no doubt, but given what we've seen with selection this year Mitchell, Priddis et al will all still be in the 22 next season.
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So what?

If Mitchell or Priddis are able to keep going, they probably keep someone like Masten or Hutchings or Redden out of the team. That's no great loss in terms of development.

WC need some fringe midfielders in their early 20s to be taking those spots. Still, the problem is not the overall age profile, but that the mature second-tier midfielders are a bit s**t. That's been true for at least three years. The recruitment of Mitchell and Petrie is superficial compared to that more fundamental problem.

And beyond that, Adam Simpson has to take some responsibility for the inconsistency of performance. Some weeks, the effort is just not there. It's underlined by the fact that, some weeks, WC come out and play properly and look for all money like a top 4 side. The fact that they can play like that and then play like s**t the next week has to be sheeted home to the coaching staff. It was the same last year and the trend continues this year.
 
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blitzer said:
It really is a pretty solid team. Its only the midfield that looks pretty fragile with a few guys that are yet to prove they are more than c graders.
At least you'll have a great ruck division so that should help. If Sheed and Duggan could step up it would help a lot but I've yet to see they are going to be any better than solid players but they are still young.
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I think Sheed will be a top-liner. Duggan, not so sure.

blitzer said:
Forward line is good but not as good as it was a few years back.
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I actually think it's as good as the ball movement allows it to be.

Apart from LeCras. He looks cooked.
 
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What Priddis has achieved with with so many limitations is a credit to him. So many greats of the game have not won a Brownlow and he nearly won a couple. That said the end was always going to come fast for him - it always does for players who are lacking in pace and not a great kick. He is really struggling to get to contests and he is missing NicNat knocking it down his throat every second ball up.

The Eagles still have the core of a good side they just need some injection of pace and youth to freshen them up. They really need to get a quality player in with their first pick in the draft and maybe look at getting in Johannisen as well. They would worry plenty of sides with Johannisen and Yeo on half back with McGovern and Barrass in the key defensive positions.

Venables if he can get on the park should be a good player in time. Karpany did some nice things on Saturday night. Jetta might have turned the corner after last month.

They need to trade Masten but not sure they would get much. Wellingham - Redden - Butler - Le Cras - Hill these guys are not going to offer anything going forward.
 
For all the insistence (mainly from Eagles supporters, strangely enough) on how epically s**t they are, West Coast aren't really that far off the mark.

Four losses by under two goals, and just one win and percentage away from 4th spot, with 9 games to go (5 of which are at home, and 5 against current bottom 10 sides). Given the injuries and absences they've been dealing with, they have managed fairly well.

Far from "season over, look to the future" IMO.
 
Next weekend's game vs the Dogs will shape the season for both clubs.

Whoever loses will likely not make finals. Whoever wins should get in given the remaining fixtures (assuming things go as expected which this year... lol). While we have beaten WCE in Melb, even when in form we didn't do it convincingly. Don't think the hoodoo will apply against us.

Very big game.

Weekend of a few big games. I'm looking forward to it.
 
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Damon_3388 said:
For all the insistence (mainly from Eagles supporters, strangely enough) on how epically s**t they are, West Coast aren't really that far off the mark.

Four losses by under two goals, and just one win and percentage away from 4th spot, with 9 games to go (5 of which are at home, and 5 against current bottom 10 sides). Given the injuries and absences they've been dealing with, they have managed fairly well.

Far from "season over, look to the future" IMO.
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We aren't 'epically s**t', we're just not going anywhere. We're not out of the finals race and we're not even out of the top 4 race the way 2017 is going, but can anyone see us progressing deep into September? We're in that awkward zone of not being a flag threat and not really getting better. In the Premier League we'd be someone like Stoke City who manage to stay up and finish mid table but aren't going to make the top 4.

Melbourne for example who just beat us will probably finish around 4th-8th. That's a good result for them after the last decade of misery and for a team with (currently) 9 players with fewer than 50 games experience they would hope not the peak of where that group can go.

West Coast right now on the other hand are comparable to North over the last couple of years. 13 x 100+ gamers in the team at the weekend with Naitanui and Kennedy walk ups if fit and LeCras, Sharrod, Redden, Butler all around the 22. That's a experienced team. The saving grace is that we're not as reliant on a group of older players so if we lose the 4 x 200+ gamers from the weekend it won't turn us into a spoon contender.
 
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