Western Sydney Multipurpose stadium

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Its been pretty well publisized up here, and whined about by the leaguies, that the NSW government has stopped and will approve no more upgrades to suburban grounds for top grade use.

They believe that as long as they have a stadium in each "region" then they will cut costs.

So as they have stated that the SCG/SFS cover the east, sth and nth, ANZ covers the inner, where and what would like the western sydney stadium to be and like? The government seems very interested on the blacktown/penrith area, though parramatta and campbelltown are doing a big push to have it there, also a few years ago there was almost a multipurpose 60k stadium built in liverpool. Now the leaguies believe it will be a rectangle stadium, but i cant see, with the growth area that is western sydney, the government building a large stadium for a limited use, when it would cost around the same to be a multipurpose venue to incl AFL and cricket.

Thoughts? Queries? etc etc
 

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Rob said:
This aint going to happen. They'd need at least 3 NRL clubs out there to sign up to play at it, and they'd be lucky to get 1 of them to do that.
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Why's that? I have no idea about the politics or goings on of NRL sides. But are there clubs like St Kilda or North who have a pretty unflattering stadium deal?

Blacktown would probably be the best. Penrith is great for Penrith, but pretty far out for the rest of the west. Parramatta is then way too close to the Olympic precinct. GWS Giants have a ground that's geographically, financially, and capacity-adequate. So what it's going to 'get?' Maybe Penrith, Wests Tigers, and Parramatta NRL? But then who plays at ANZ Stadium? I can't see many cricket games being moved from the SCG, either.
 
Rob said:
This aint going to happen. They'd need at least 3 NRL clubs out there to sign up to play at it, and they'd be lucky to get 1 of them to do that.
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While I agree that the Panthers, Tigers & eels would do everything they can to either have the stadium in their city or not play there at all. With the NSW government saying there will be no more funding to the suburban grounds they wont have a choice. Especially if they base it a blacktown.
 
Barkly St End said:
There is no way known that a new stadium out West will be built to accomodate cricket and footy.

99.99% certain it will be rectangular to be used by League and soccer.
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I would agree except the government has stated on numerous occasions there preference for one stadium for all codes in each area. As the East already has the SCG and the SFS and the inner ANZ, then the best they can do to cover all bases is a multipurpose venue in the west. The penrith design is actually a multipurpose venue, as is the liverpool and blacktown one. Only parra want a rectangle only stadium.
 
General Giant said:
I would agree except the government has stated on numerous occasions there preference for one stadium for all codes in each area. As the East already has the SCG and the SFS and the inner ANZ, then the best they can do to cover all bases is a multipurpose venue in the west. The penrith design is actually a multipurpose venue, as is the liverpool and blacktown one. Only parra want a rectangle only stadium.
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Soccer and league have been squealing like stuffed pigs for a few years now about the AFL ovals being built in Sydney, so there is no way that the next big stadium development will enable AFL games (which seems fair enough by the way).
 
Barkly St End said:
Soccer and league have been squealing like stuffed pigs for a few years now about the AFL ovals being built in Sydney, so there is no way that the next big stadium development will enable AFL games (which seems fair enough by the way).
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The thing is though there is no large multipurpose stadium in the west, ANZ is in th emiddle of Sydney, SCG/SFS is in the east. Maybe surban wise yes they have been complaining and they probably would if there was a multipurpose one built in the west. But the government are thinking long term. A large multipurpose stadium would fix the need of having cricket, AFL, League, Soccer and rugby games in a high class large capacity venue, of which there are none.
 
Silent Alarm said:
Why's that? I have no idea about the politics or goings on of NRL sides. But are there clubs like St Kilda or North who have a pretty unflattering stadium deal?

Blacktown would probably be the best. Penrith is great for Penrith, but pretty far out for the rest of the west. Parramatta is then way too close to the Olympic precinct. GWS Giants have a ground that's geographically, financially, and capacity-adequate. So what it's going to 'get?' Maybe Penrith, Wests Tigers, and Parramatta NRL? But then who plays at ANZ Stadium? I can't see many cricket games being moved from the SCG, either.
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You've basically answered the question. Part of the reason why there hasn't been as much stadium sharing in Sydney is that the clubs there haven't outgrown their suburban grounds. The existing venues are more than adequate and are generally located where their supporters are. So why would they risk moving to a bigger, probably more expensive venue that their supporters have to travel a lot further to? Without NRL club support there isn't any reason to build the venue. Football is fine, soccer is fine, cricket is fine and there are no professional rugby teams out there.

It might happen in 10-20 years when the existing venues start falling apart and the government tells them to get stuffed when they ask for funding.
 
Rob said:
You've basically answered the question. Part of the reason why there hasn't been as much stadium sharing in Sydney is that the clubs there haven't outgrown their suburban grounds. The existing venues are more than adequate and are generally located where their supporters are. So why would they risk moving to a bigger, probably more expensive venue that their supporters have to travel a lot further to? Without NRL club support there isn't any reason to build the venue. Football is fine, soccer is fine, cricket is fine and there are no professional rugby teams out there.

It might happen in 10-20 years when the existing venues start falling apart and the government tells them to get stuffed when they ask for funding.
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The thing is the existing venues are falling apart, brookvale, leichhardt, campbelltown and penrith are all in dire need of funds to improve them up to a descent standard. There are no cricket/afl grounds in the west (ANZ is in the middle not west). With the population growth growing so rapidly in the west there is a need for a central all purpose stadium of a large size for those people, cricket will want a major developement out there as well. This has been recognised and is why over the next 6 months the NSW government has an investigation on where to put it. Which is why Penrith, Parra and the Tigers are all going on hands and knees to the Government saying it should be built where their clubs are based.
 

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General Giant said:
The thing is the existing venues are falling apart, brookvale, leichhardt, campbelltown and penrith are all in dire need of funds to improve them up to a descent standard.
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Campbelltown is barely 10 years old, and the first 2 aren't anywhere near the Western suburbs. Manly would never play there.

There are no cricket/afl grounds in the west (ANZ is in the middle not west). With the population growth growing so rapidly in the west there is a need for a central all purpose stadium of a large size for those people, cricket will want a major developement out there as well. This has been recognised and is why over the next 6 months the NSW government has an investigation on where to put it. Which is why Penrith, Parra and the Tigers are all going on hands and knees to the Government saying it should be built where their clubs are based.
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There isn't the need for a cricket/afl ground in the west, no professional team would use it. there might be a need for grass roots facilities but that's got nothing to do with new stadiums.

Even when push comes to shove, I still doubt any team would move to a new stadium. Penrith is over 20km from Blacktown, Campelltown over 40km away and Parramatta just had an upgrade. Wests Tigers probably don't want to piss off their supporters in the eastern suburbs (i'm just guessing there, my interest is stadiums and demographics, I don't know much about the club other than its a merger with Balmain so presumably a lot of their supporters are from there).
 
Rob said:
Campbelltown is barely 10 years old, and the first 2 aren't anywhere near the Western suburbs. Manly would never play there.).
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Campbelltown Stadium may only be just a tick over 14 years old, but not much effort was put into the rebuild, 1 new stand.. The fact is it is in need of major upgrades, which is why the Mighty Wests Tigers play only 3 games a year there.
Ok, Manly would not move to the west, never said they would (my argument was all sydney clubs in top grade would move to the professional stadiums that have been outlined by the government.), but after numerous years of getting knockbacks for upgrades they will have to move to the SFS or fund upgrades to Manly themselves. The point im trying to make is the Government HAS come out and said there are no more funds for suburban grounds. That they WILL be building an all new stadium in the West to make sure they cover all the main areas of Sydney. This is why they have their 6 month review right now on where it will be. This is fact not wishfull thinking.

Rob said:
There isn't the need for a cricket/afl ground in the west, no professional team would use it. there might be a need for grass roots facilities but that's got nothing to do with new stadiums.
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Its not just about professional teams, cricket Aus have already stated they are losing crowds, and if they have a stadium in Australias largest populated area that could help. Its also about the government giving something to what is a largly forgotten region. Western Sydney as a whole is huge. As for no professional team would use it. Well Parra and Penrith would, as would Wanderers and the Thunder, Probably the Giants once they get bigger to.. Its a matter of they will have no choice (except the Thunder and Giants who enjoy their central location). The stadiums they have arent fit for top grade sport and wont be getting the funds to upgrade them. Unless a wealthy backer comes in and builds a stadium for them.

Rob said:
Even when push comes to shove, I still doubt any team would move to a new stadium. Penrith is over 20km from Blacktown, Campelltown over 40km away and Parramatta just had an upgrade. Wests Tigers probably don't want to piss off their supporters in the eastern suburbs (i'm just guessing there, my interest is stadiums and demographics, I don't know much about the club other than its a merger with Balmain so presumably a lot of their supporters are from there).
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They will have no choice. The NRL has already banned suburban grounds from finals and has already started working with clubs to try to push them on a more centralised locations. This has been reported on for the last 6 months. As for the Wests Tigers (Im a Balmain fan since birth) the leagues club is gone, and the most powerfull of its clubs is in Ashfield. If the new stadium is in the blacktown/penrith area then they would probably play out of ANZ due to its central location.

Now just to be clear. The NSW Government has already stated that full stop there will be no further upgrades to suburban grounds (I wish they would upgrade Leichhart) and that they want all professional teams to be based out of large purpose built multifunction arenas. The reason for this is right now there isnt the money needed to upgrade the grounds, they also look to Melbourne with envy on how they centralised all their grounds. The NRL also dont like the look of suburban grounds, its not professional enough for corporates and sponsors, especially when your competitiors dont do it. Paying for 1 stadium to be built is allot cheaper than bringing up a ton of old stadiums to code. They are also awaiting submissions from all western sydney councils/clubs as to where the best place for this would be.
 
General Giant said:
Campbelltown Stadium may only be just a tick over 14 years old, but not much effort was put into the rebuild, 1 new stand.. The fact is it is in need of major upgrades, which is why the Mighty Wests Tigers play only 3 games a year there.
Ok, Manly would not move to the west, never said they would (my argument was all sydney clubs in top grade would move to the professional stadiums that have been outlined by the government.), but after numerous years of getting knockbacks for upgrades they will have to move to the SFS or fund upgrades to Manly themselves. The point im trying to make is the Government HAS come out and said there are no more funds for suburban grounds. That they WILL be building an all new stadium in the West to make sure they cover all the main areas of Sydney. This is why they have their 6 month review right now on where it will be. This is fact not wishfull thinking.
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Yeah, OK. I doubt even the NSW government are that idiotic that they would build a stadium without any commitments from clubs to actually play games there.

It's like that episode of Yes Minister where Hacker becomes transport supremo - the road, rail and air lobbies are all in favour of more funding as long as it benefits their industry. I'm sure all clubs are in favour of a new stadium as long as it's built where their ground is now. Whoever is doing this review is probably called 'stadium muggins' by his colleagues.

Its not just about professional teams, cricket Aus have already stated they are losing crowds, and if they have a stadium in Australias largest populated area that could help. Its also about the government giving something to what is a largly forgotten region. Western Sydney as a whole is huge. As for no professional team would use it. Well Parra and Penrith would, as would Wanderers and the Thunder, Probably the Giants once they get bigger to.. Its a matter of they will have no choice (except the Thunder and Giants who enjoy their central location). The stadiums they have arent fit for top grade sport and wont be getting the funds to upgrade them. Unless a wealthy backer comes in and builds a stadium for them.
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So why would these teams use the venue? That's my point. If, say, it's built in Blacktown, it's going to be too far away from where these teams are located. No way Parramatta would use it. Virtually zero chance. can't see the Wanderers or Thunder using it - Thunder might play games at Skoda, but they wouldn't go out there.

As you say, WS is big - but it's not centralised. The most central location is Parramatta, and good luck getting teams to commit full time playing out of there (except Parramatta obviously).

They will have no choice. The NRL has already banned suburban grounds from finals and has already started working with clubs to try to push them on a more centralised locations. This has been reported on for the last 6 months. As for the Wests Tigers (Im a Balmain fan since birth) the leagues club is gone, and the most powerfull of its clubs is in Ashfield. If the new stadium is in the blacktown/penrith area then they would probably play out of ANZ due to its central location.

Now just to be clear. The NSW Government has already stated that full stop there will be no further upgrades to suburban grounds (I wish they would upgrade Leichhart) and that they want all professional teams to be based out of large purpose built multifunction arenas. The reason for this is right now there isnt the money needed to upgrade the grounds, they also look to Melbourne with envy on how they centralised all their grounds. The NRL also dont like the look of suburban grounds, its not professional enough for corporates and sponsors, especially when your competitiors dont do it. Paying for 1 stadium to be built is allot cheaper than bringing up a ton of old stadiums to code. They are also awaiting submissions from all western sydney councils/clubs as to where the best place for this would be.
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Not saying the NSW government (or NRL) strategy isn't sound, but they're going to have an almighty uphill battle to get signatures on paper, at least in the next 10 years. As I also understand it, isn't the ground in Penrith part of some massive entertainment complex? Presumably they're paying a lot of the bills of the rugby league club, so i'm sure they're really going to want to take a dozen or so events attracting 10,000 people each away from that.
 
Rob said:
Yeah, OK. I doubt even the NSW government are that idiotic that they would build a stadium without any commitments from clubs to actually play games there.

It's like that episode of Yes Minister where Hacker becomes transport supremo - the road, rail and air lobbies are all in favour of more funding as long as it benefits their industry. I'm sure all clubs are in favour of a new stadium as long as it's built where their ground is now. Whoever is doing this review is probably called 'stadium muggins' by his colleagues..
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They would get commitments from the codes, NRL, ARU, Cricket Aust. The clubs will also come running as well once their stadiums continue to fall apart and they dont get the upgrades required for the corporate sponsorship.

Rob said:
So why would these teams use the venue? That's my point. If, say, it's built in Blacktown, it's going to be too far away from where these teams are located. No way Parramatta would use it. Virtually zero chance. can't see the Wanderers or Thunder using it - Thunder might play games at Skoda, but they wouldn't go out there.

As you say, WS is big - but it's not centralised. The most central location is Parramatta, and good luck getting teams to commit full time playing out of there (except Parramatta obviously)..
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Actually the most central location for the west would be Blacktown/liverpool corridor if you include Richmond and Campbelltown. Parra is a bit to far east to be classed as central West. Parra actually a few years ago used to crow on about being central to all of Sydney.
Blacktown, Eastern creak, Liverpool are not to far away (speaking as someone who grew up in MtDruitt) from Parra and Penrith. Parramatta have a few more years yet where they can use their own stadium so can give the finger. The other NRL teams do not. The NSW gov are thinking about the future not the now (weird as no NSW gov has thought about the future since the bridge was built.)

Rob said:
Not saying the NSW government (or NRL) strategy isn't sound, but they're going to have an almighty uphill battle to get signatures on paper, at least in the next 10 years. As I also understand it, isn't the ground in Penrith part of some massive entertainment complex? Presumably they're paying a lot of the bills of the rugby league club, so i'm sure they're really going to want to take a dozen or so events attracting 10,000 people each away from that.
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Not really, as the Government just turn around, as they have said, and say its this or nothing. The NRL will sign up straight away, as will Cricket NSW and Australia (start of with some twenty20 games and state cricket)

Penrith has a very large leagues club not really a complex like say blacktown sports park(which in itself is not massive). The new ground is their proposal to the NSW government for the new Western Sydney stadium, no details are known yet of the bids or ideas from Liverpool, Parramatta or Campbelltown as the Goverment hasnt met with all of them yet.

We are not taling about a 100k joke. Itll be a 40 to 50k stadium.
 
If this goes ahead what of the Olympic Stadium? Is the NRL locked in to a usage arrangement? Would it get enough use otherwise?
 
La Vache said:
If this goes ahead what of the Olympic Stadium? Is the NRL locked in to a usage arrangement? Would it get enough use otherwise?
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Yes it would, the NRL, NSW Goverment as well as most of the national sporting bodies are tired of having what is very poor infrastructure in what is the biggest city in Aust.

They would look at the following as what would be ideal

Moore Park - Roosters, Manly, Cronulla, Swans, Waratahs, Sydney FC, Sydney 6ers as well as some minor finals and cricket
HomeBush - Souths, Wests Tigers, Bulldogs, SOO, Big AFL and Waratah games, ARU Test matchs, Sydney Thunder, GWS Giants, Cricket One dayers Twenty20 and Grand Finals Of NRL and Waratahs
Western Sydney - Penrith, Parramatta, Wanderers, maybe Thunder (depending on Growth), Maybe Giants (depending on growth), twenty20 cricket and one dayers. Also can hold some finals of NRL, a Western Sydney s15 side has been pushed for some time by the ARU as well (Rams)

Now before you say clubs wont agree etc, they wont have a choice. Only Parra could probably go on for a considerable (10 years) amount of time with out upgrades which by then would make it a dump. Besides if the AFL could get all clubs to shrink to just 2 stadiums cant see why we couldnt up here for 4/5(skoda/anz).
 
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