Western Sydney Multipurpose stadium

[Rob]

They would get commitments from the codes, NRL, ARU, Cricket Aust. The clubs will also come running as well once their stadiums continue to fall apart and they dont get the upgrades required for the corporate sponsorship.

I probably agree with your last sentence, but I reckon that's over 10 years away yet.

Actually the most central location for the west would be Blacktown/liverpool corridor if you include Richmond and Campbelltown. Parra is a bit to far east to be classed as central West. Parra actually a few years ago used to crow on about being central to all of Sydney.

By central, I didn't mean in the middle, I meant a central hub. You look at Blacktown Sports Park, really it's only serviced by the Penrith line, whereas Parramatta is serviced by several lines coming from all parts of the West. It's also a commercial hub in it's own right, so you have all the parking and entertainment infrastructure there already, whereas Blacktown there isn't even close to as much.

Not really, as the Government just turn around, as they have said, and say its this or nothing. The NRL will sign up straight away, as will Cricket NSW and Australia (start of with some twenty20 games and state cricket)

Penrith has a very large leagues club not really a complex like say blacktown sports park(which in itself is not massive). The new ground is their proposal to the NSW government for the new Western Sydney stadium, no details are known yet of the bids or ideas from Liverpool, Parramatta or Campbelltown as the Goverment hasnt met with all of them yet.

We are not taling about a 100k joke. Itll be a 40 to 50k stadium.

Well, good luck. Cricket I don't think are worth anything (because they have no events to provide, not ones that draw spectators anyway), I doubt the Wanderers really want to play in some monolith where empty seats significantly outnumber the fans, and even the NRL would want to be careful about it if the clubs all kick up a stink.

You compare the stadium situation to Melbourne, but it's just not that simple in Sydney. 2 reasons - Melburnians actually attend sporting events, so the need for larger stadiums was driven by the desire to get more people through the gate. This isn't the case in Sydney. The 2nd reason is that Melbourne is much more centralised. Just have a look at the train map of both Sydney and Melbourne to see what i'm talking about. All trains in Melbourne run to the city loop. Not so in Sydney. That's why both major stadiums in Melbourne are in the city. You build one in the sticks in Sydney and expect people to change trains 3 times and take 90 minutes to get there? Not bloody likely, they don't particularly want to attend sport in the first place.

 

[Stewies Power]

Let's say that the Penrith's multipurpose stadium proposal takes off, it would be interesting to see what GWS do. Would they split their Sydney games between Skoda and the new venue? Or just play maybe one game there a year? Surely they wouldn't permanently move straight away considering the Government pretty much redeveloped the Showgrounds venue because of the Giants.

 

[Pj.Rj.Hj]

Penriths Multipurpose venue proposal

Doesn't look particularly multipurpose, it just looks like the current Penrith stadium with added end stands and new tiers above the current structure. Still I don't see why a new Western Sydeny Stadium should have to accommodate the AFL or even Cricket. Both those sports are catered for very well with the current set up in Sydney. It sounds like some serious over capitalising to fit them which will also compromise the sightlines of League, Union and Soccer who will be the primary tenants.

So I imagine, if such a stadium goes ahead. Parramatta, Penrith and Campbelltown stadiums will be mostly demolished and left as training grounds?
I did forget that Parramata Stadium is 27 years old, structurally fine but obselete.
As far as the bird flies, Blacktown Sports centre still looks like the most central location between Penrith , Parra and Liverpool (where is the bulk of Western Suburbs Magpies fans based?).
It's as if Penrith's location throws Sydneys Stadium rationalisation attempts into chaos as Wests (because of the Balmain factor) and Parramatta could have equally gone to Homebush.
I find it very strange that Souths still prefer to play at Homebush instead of Moore Park.
Considering Eastern Sydney's desity it looks harder for Cronulla and Manly fans to reach Moore Parth than the Western Sydney teams reaching any Western centred stadium.

Still something has to happen, the Suburban grounds are the spiritural homes and will be missed but this is premier sport in the 21st century and imagine is everything, you can't sell League to interstate and international sponsors against a multitude of Sports when you can see people casually sitting on grass bands and delapitated grandstands. Till then no one will take it seriously as a neck and neck rival with Aussie Rules Football.

If Penrith, Parra, Wests or any other club fans moan that they have to travel too far, just point out the AFL fans who travel from Geelong, Frankston and Rural Victoria to the MCG and Etihad or the AFL fans that live on that live on the fringes of Adelaide and Perth, many traveling over 70km, no one bitches because it is just the reality of attending pro sport. Hell, the New England Patriots play halfway between Boston and Providence.

 

[Pj.Rj.Hj]

Let's say that the Penrith's multipurpose stadium proposal takes off, it would be interesting to see what GWS do. Would they split their Sydney games between Skoda and the new venue? Or just play maybe one game there a year? Surely they wouldn't permanently move straight away considering the Government pretty much redeveloped the Showgrounds venue because of the Giants.

They're already playing 3 games a year in Canberra so I'd say no.

 

[The_Wookie]

Like or not, you can play every sport in Australia on an oval. Its not necessarily about catering to cricket and the afl, its about being able to though. 40-50k puts it in the docklands size range. Modern stadia with decent moveable seating would solve this problem. Its also about maximising returns and future proofing. If you build for rectangle codes then you limit what you can do with them. You rule out cricket, AFL, athletics. Yes AFL is well catered for - at present more than well catered for. Cricket Australia isnt. It would actually make sense to move one of Sydneys BBL teams out there along with the Wanders for summer tenancies. The AFL would chip in a few million to make sure the AFL couldnt be blocked from it.

 

[RUNVS]

Penrith would be a poor location as the train network is just not good enough. Parramatta is much more centralised and easier to get to for the majority of people.

 

[Dont be a lemon]

As others have said Penrith, Parramatta and West Tigers (who a play third of their games in Moore Park!) won't agree to it unless it's in 'their' area or it's many years from now and their own stadiums are truly falling apart and they can't get funding from anywhere.

No government will bother building it without guaranteed tenants.

I find it very strange that Souths still prefer to play at Homebush instead of Moore Park.

To my knowledge they moved in 2006 because Stadium Australia offered them a far better deal ($) than the Sydney Football Stadium.

 

[Colonial]

Penrith would be a poor location as the train network is just not good enough. Parramatta is much more centralised and easier to get to for the majority of people.

Umm no on few levels.

Parramatta only has the western line going through it. Blacktown (which would be the most centralised for western sydney) has the richmond line as well. But Penrith is equal to parra in public transport, and probably a bit ahead of parra in roads. Blacktown is streats ahead of both in both.

As for roads you have the m7,m2 and m4 all within 2km of each other. Not the same at Parra, nor is a station that close to parra stadium (bout 30 min walk)

Parramatta is not going to get the location, to close to ANZ, as well as terrible rds and 1 railway line. U
nlike Melbourne which is like one great big circle, Sydney is spread out east to west, as such you need to cover each area.

 

[Colonial]

As others have said Penrith, Parramatta and West Tigers (who a play third of their games in Moore Park!) won't agree to it unless it's in 'their' area or it's many years from now and their own stadiums are truly falling apart and they can't get funding from anywhere.

No government will bother building it without guaranteed tenants.



To my knowledge they moved in 2006 because Stadium Australia offered them a far better deal ($) than the Sydney Football Stadium.

The teams wont have a choice, there stadiums are falling apart which will leave just ANZ and the SFS. Which means an "outer western suburbs" stadium is required. To cover all bases. True The Tigers wouldnt use it. Probably would stick to sfs or ANZ, but penrith wont have a choice and in 10 years when parra stadium is rusted through neither will the eels or wanderers.

Basically with Sths is that yes they got a better deal.

The NRL are the ones throwing money at all the clubs. Especially the western sydney ones who are all crying poor at the moment. The clubs will do what the NRL says or they will find themselves shborter of funds and going belly up.

 

[Colonial]

By central, I didn't mean in the middle, I meant a central hub. You look at Blacktown Sports Park, really it's only serviced by the Penrith line, whereas Parramatta is serviced by several lines coming from all parts of the West. It's also a commercial hub in it's own right, so you have all the parking and entertainment infrastructure there already, whereas Blacktown there isn't even close to as much..

Umm no its not.. Parra is only the western line (It does have a nice station though.). Carlingford links up with Clyde, Richmond links up with Blacktown, Liverpool with Granville, and the mountains 1st stop in the metro is penrith then blacktown.

The roads in Parra are terrible as is the parking. The place likes to think of itself as high class, but the infrastructure is woefull. There is only th M4 that comes anywhere near it. Where as Blacktown has all 3 major western motorways linking up in it (M4,M7,M2).

Well, good luck. Cricket I don't think are worth anything (because they have no events to provide, not ones that draw spectators anyway), I doubt the Wanderers really want to play in some monolith where empty seats significantly outnumber the fans, and even the NRL would want to be careful about it if the clubs all kick up a stink.

You compare the stadium situation to Melbourne, but it's just not that simple in Sydney. 2 reasons - Melburnians actually attend sporting events, so the need for larger stadiums was driven by the desire to get more people through the gate. This isn't the case in Sydney. The 2nd reason is that Melbourne is much more centralised. Just have a look at the train map of both Sydney and Melbourne to see what i'm talking about. All trains in Melbourne run to the city loop. Not so in Sydney. That's why both major stadiums in Melbourne are in the city. You build one in the sticks in Sydney and expect people to change trains 3 times and take 90 minutes to get there? Not bloody likely, they don't particularly want to attend sport in the first place.

No events?? Umm international Twenty20 and one dayers get massive crowds. And i garuntee you this. If all major sport is limited to tier 1 stadiums instead of the joke of stadiums that are used now, then crowds will rise. fans love the hill and getting muddy and wet. The general public dont. Pretty easy to laugh at Sydneys crowds in league etc when the stadiums are light years behind the rest of the country (except for 3)

I dont expect 3 trains at all. At most it would be 2 for people who follow a western sydney team from the east or want to visit the west or they would have 3 motorways to get there as well. Unlike parra.

Have you ever been to western Sydney??


But the saying wether its needed or not is going backwards and forwards and while some of what is being said against is true, The NSW government have already said it IS happening, and they are spending the next 3 months (according to the details) as to getting ideas for suitable location.

So any design ideas (since we have no control over location. it will come down to which council, clubs will throw the most money at it.)

 

[Dont be a lemon]

Sydney Roosters and Canterbury-Bankstown both play full-time at tier 1 stadiums (as you term them) and West Tigers do a third of the time. None of them are exactly hitting crowds for 6 regularly.

http://www.cityrail.info/stations/network_map

On that map Parramatta and Blacktown are both clearly superior to Penrith if a 'multi-use' stadium was to be built in the future.

 

[Colonial]

Sydney Roosters and Canterbury-Bankstown both play full-time at tier 1 stadiums (as you term them) and West Tigers do a third of the time. None of them are exactly hitting crowds for 6 regularly.

http://www.cityrail.info/stations/network_map

On that map Parramatta and Blacktown are both clearly superior to Penrith if a 'multi-use' stadium was to be built in the future.

Parra is no better or worse compared to penrith regarding getting there due to both have 1 line in rail, roads fav penrith, while yes the more central sydney loc favs parra, but thats the point. Penrith/blacktown are further out and more central to western sydney. Parra is central to sydney as a whole. And as such is already covered by homebush.

For league teams yes they do play at tier 1 ( a couple of them) (And its not me its what the NSW Gov call em)but i do think, and the nrl does to, if all Sydney clubs played in tier one stadiums only then sponsorship corporates and crowds will rise.. Look as I said, this isnt a I wish we had a stadium out west. it is a gov approved moved to stop with all the tier 2 and 3 stadium upgrades and instead move all major sport to the 3 areas. Its just a matter of where.

 

[The_Wookie]

To my knowledge they moved in 2006 because Stadium Australia offered them a far better deal ($) than the Sydney Football Stadium.

My understanding is they actually get paid to play there

 

[theRainbowGame]

Perhaps the best way to ensure that football is included in such an upgrade is to prepare a Western Sydney bid for the Commonwealth Games.

 

[saviour01]

Let's say that the Penrith's multipurpose stadium proposal takes off, it would be interesting to see what GWS do. Would they split their Sydney games between Skoda and the new venue? Or just play maybe one game there a year? Surely they wouldn't permanently move straight away considering the Government pretty much redeveloped the Showgrounds venue because of the Giants.

I'm sure the govt will make sure it's multi purpose so giants can play 1 game a year there.... especially after they just have them 50m for their new home.

 

[millsy29gopies]

Perhaps the best way to ensure that football is included in such an upgrade is to prepare a Western Sydney bid for the Commonwealth Games.

Gold Coast just won the 2018 games so I don't think we'll be getting them again anytime soon.

 

[theRainbowGame]

Gold Coast just won the 2018 games so I don't think we'll be getting them again anytime soon.

If we simply create the possibility for a future games bid in 2030 or so then the stadium could easily be made into a multi-purpose.

Also another thing to think about ... would there be enough space on the calendar for Giants matches if a number of NRL clubs play out of it each weekend?

I am all for an oval stadium in Western Sydney. The current Showgrounds are not really seen as western sydney. Maybe from a Melbourne perspective it is a good location, but not from a Sydney one.
It would definitely be worth the AFL taking $10 mil out of the advertising budget and providing it to a multi-purpose stadium.

 

[desie]

Parramatta's too close to the Olympic precinct.

Blacktown remains Labor territory, even after the absolute bloodbath that was the last State election.

Campbelltown is too far removed on the south-western fringe.

It'll be in Penrith, the mountains to the west and a massive population between there and Blacktown to the east, plus it's generally marginal seat country. It will be multi-purpose, with the cricket ground directly behind it to go. The only question is whether they'll spend an extra $250 million to give it a roof.

 

[Kwality]

Are the Wanderers the only team to pull a decent crowd out west?

 

[Colonial]

Parramatta's too close to the Olympic precinct.

Blacktown remains Labor territory, even after the absolute bloodbath that was the last State election.

Campbelltown is too far removed on the south-western fringe.

It'll be in Penrith, the mountains to the west and a massive population between there and Blacktown to the east, plus it's generally marginal seat country. It will be multi-purpose, with the cricket ground directly behind it to go. The only question is whether they'll spend an extra $250 million to give it a roof.

Is also in the "middle" so to speak of the Sth West with Campbelltown and the Nth West with Richmond etc.

I cant see us getting a roof, they are still trying to get one for the SFS.

 

[Colonial]

Are the Wanderers the only team to pull a decent crowd out west?

Depends, not in memberships. But when Penrith, Parra and theTigers are winning the do get sell outs at Penrith Campbelltown and Parra. The Wanderers when tey won none of there first 8 games were only getting 7k. Will be interestig to see once they are having a bad season wether the crowds stick around.