Review What’s Going Wrong?

[Priddis Is Done]

Hypothetical fellow supporters

Clarkson time is coming to an end at Hawthorn....if he puts his hand up and says he want's to coach again ....I know what I would be doing if i was the Eagles.....offer him a deal ASAP

No young talent

Trading for top up players

Not as clear cut as you think

 

[HoneyBadger35]

Hypothetical fellow supporters

Clarkson time is coming to an end at Hawthorn....if he puts his hand up and says he want's to coach again ....I know what I would be doing if i was the Eagles.....offer him a deal ASAP

Clarko is a great coach, one of the greatest ever perhaps. I'd have him at West Coast in a heartbeat, if we could get him in as some sort of mentor or leader that would be great.

Simmo has outperformed him for years though, and he's the guy who Simpson learned from. It's the game plan we emulate most. if you're not happy with the game style, would you go straight to the architect of that style to replace your incumbent?

 

[Woobla Stainz]

Kelly needs to stop drinking his own bathwater and do the hard work, he is no where near a fit Shuey or Yeo. Geelongs mid made him look better than he is. Been very inconsistent as an eagle so far

 

[JezMez]

Where do I think this is going? Hard to say. Posts on our board at the end of 2017 had a very strong view of where it was going. We didn't know then and we don't know now.

There's two key differences;

1. The personel. 2015 went close, we went and got some reinforcements (Jetta, Rioli, Ryan etc) and tinkered with the game plan. Since 2018, we drafted in Kelly, Allen appeared, but it's pretty much the same team.

2. Simmo's tenure. He's now 8 or so years in with close to the same group. The message is much more likely to get stale.

Is giving the keys to two tested coaches with massive failures as the only noteworthy entry on their resume the answer? Not to me. Is giving an untried coach who gets all the praise and none of the criticism for West Coast and Hawthorn's failings when he's been there the answer? Not to me. It's over? Disagree.

Don't get caught up in who I think we should look at, ask yourself whether you think Simmo can right the ship within the flag window. Also consider, after 2 less than par seasons he hasn't made changes.

The question isn't "do you think Pyke or Voss are better coaches than Simmo", but "is it time for a change before the window shuts?".

 

[HoneyBadger35]

There's two key differences;

1. The personel. 2015 went close, we went and got some reinforcements (Jetta, Rioli, Ryan etc) and tinkered with the game plan. Since 2018, we drafted in Kelly, Allen appeared, but it's pretty much the same team.

2. Simmo's tenure. He's now 8 or so years in with close to the same group. The message is much more likely to get stale.


Don't get caught up in who I think we should look at, ask yourself whether you think Simmo can right the ship within the flag window. Also consider, after 2 less than par seasons he hasn't made changes.

The question isn't "do you think Pyke or Voss are better coaches than Simmo", but "is it time for a change before the window shuts?".

Fair enough.

I think Simmo is as likely to be our next Premiership coach as anyone with this group. If we don't win another flag with what you'd consider 'this core' (JK, JD, Gaff, Shuey, Yeo, McGovern, Nic Nat, Shep, potentially Hurn etc), I don't think it's likely a different coach would have gotten us there either. If we miss the boat with this group and some sort of Allen/Kelly/Sheed group gets it done with a new coach, so be it.

If messages get stale after 8+ years, I don't understand why and how the Tigers persisted with Hardwick for so long, or indeed how he is now, 13 years into his coaching career, a three time Premiership winning coach.

 

[Cuzz09]

Id love to get Nathan Buckley as coach.

Seems like a big change to WA would fit him well

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[Westend]

Clarko is a great coach, one of the greatest ever perhaps. I'd have him at West Coast in a heartbeat, if we could get him in as some sort of mentor or leader that would be great.

Simmo has outperformed him for years though, and he's the guy who Simpson learned from. It's the game plan we emulate most. if you're not happy with the game style, would you go straight to the architect of that style to replace your incumbent?

Yeah good point but I Reckon if Clarkson had the talent of our list over the past few seasons we might of snagged another flag

The talent is still there its just not being nurtured by Simmo

Plus Clarkson understands how to win in melbourne which Simmo struggles with

 

[HoneyBadger35]

Yeah good point but I Reckon if Clarkson had the talent of our list over the past few seasons we might of snagged another flag

The talent is still there its just not being nurtured by Simmo

Plus Clarkson understands how to win in melbourne which Simmo struggles with

Quite literally the only club in AFL history to go undefeated in Victoria for a full season.

I suspect your 80 posts on our board in 12 years, exclusively panning the club and the majority about how bad Nic Nat are, aren't genuine. Sorry if that sounds harsh but its the only conclusion I can arrive at.

 

[RookiePick]

Id love to get Nathan Buckley as coach.

Seems like a big change to WA would fit him well

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Lol. That's going too far the other way.

Bucks is a confirmed liar and all round farkwit on player relations.

Small credit for putting one through Molik.

 

[Coasters7]

It's not confusing.

Don Pike presided over one of the most prominent mental collapses of a program in sporting history. Check.
Michael Voss thought he could draft in players to Brisbane and have another tilt. It was always going to fail. Check.

But both have astute footy heads. The question is, do we think they will make the same mistake twice?

It's hard to find a coach who can win a flag. They need a slice of luck too. Pike and Voss are as good a bet as any.

Nathan Buckley is another option. His message has gone stale at Collingwood. Both parties need to part ways. He can coach though.

I think the answer is to try and bring these types of guys in as assistants. Simmo is a good coach but at the moment his support cast looks a little thin and he’s typically done better with a good right hand man.

None of them really spring out as great minds from their playing days. I know the talent of a player isn’t necessarily in direct correlation to their coaching ability (although it could help). But for someone like Mitchell for example, wasn’t blessed with the best physical attributes but still found a way to become one of the best players of the modern era. That’s the perfect brain for a coaching job. It’s not a “2018 was Sam Mitchell’s flag” scenario as it took the whole club and staff as a unit. But it’s no coincidence that our mids played the best games of their lives under him as midfield coach.

The rest of our coaches might be good or have potential to be good, it’s hard to gauge from the outside other than results on gameday, but it seems like a bit of a boys club filled with ex-Eagles and Roos. There doesn’t seem to be a whole lot of actual coaching experience, like a Voss or Pyke and some are coaching new positions. There’s also probably not many of our assistants that would be in contention for a senior role if one popped up, which could say something about their quality.

It’s obviously hard to keep a coaching/list management group together for a decent amount of time with all the factors involved (promotions, home state etc) but I do wonder if we had’ve kept the same coaching setup as 2018 whether we’d have faired any better.

 

[JezMez]

I think Simmo is as likely to be our next Premiership coach as anyone with this group.

So you think Simmo's message hasn't been lost?

It's been over two years and he just hasn't been able to fix the contested ball problem. A loss from 6/7 goals up mid-3rd quarter, and 13 unanswered goals?

The problem is escalating.

If messages get stale after 8+ years, I don't understand why and how the Tigers persisted with Hardwick for so long, or indeed how he is now, 13 years into his coaching career, a three time Premiership winning coach.

He's an outlier. Check the stats. I think King or Lyon presented them recently when talking about Buckley.

Since he won his first flag, he hasn't had the same contested ball issues Simmo has had.

 

[RookiePick]

Our midfield and stoppage structures, in general, are sweaty ballsack.

We are far too cute overall. Need a massive injection of the basics. Smalls getting front and square at contests. Getting back off the mark and kicking properly. Tackling, omfg, tackling.

 

[CM9000]

Really?

We had almost full strength teams in the latter rounds of the past 2 seasons against relatively weak sides. All we had to do was win and we were top 4 and nearabouts flag favourites. Couldn't do it. In both of those games players just couldn't bring themselves to put their bodies on the line.

6/7 goals up half way through a 3rd quarter and we capitulate?
13 unanswered goals against Geelong.

And you think the players are still buying Simmo's message?

It's people like you who have their head in the sane and let rot continue well past its used by date. It took 10 seasons for some to work out Priddis stifled our midfield. Some still haven't worked it out.

If we were in a rebuilding phase - no problem, that needs time. When they window is still open - time is a luxury we don't have. The change needs to be made now.

Wait, which game in 2020? You mean the EF? I think you’re making things up there.

And you really think getting rid of Simmo would solve any of these issues? You’re just like those posters at the end of 2017 who kept banging on about Sumich and how he would solve all our problems. It’s not entirely Simmo’s fault, and it seems to me you’ve decided to discount the fact the team is facing the worst injury crisis we’ve ever seen.

Stop living in the past and concentrate on the now simmo's message is not getting through and the team is going backwards

The buck stops with him

Yes, because Simmo is the only one who makes all the decisions. What the hell is a selection committee anyway?

 

[HoneyBadger35]

So you think Simmo's message hasn't been lost?

It's been over two years and he just hasn't been able to fix the contested ball problem. A loss from 6/7 goals up mid-3rd quarter, and 13 unanswered goals?

The problem is escalating.


He's an outlier. Check the stats. I think King or Lyon presented them recently when talking about Buckley.

Since he won his first flag, he hasn't had the same contested ball issues Simmo has had.

So why can we beat the best contested ball team in Port Adelaide, and absolutely dominate them at the contest? We got lucky one time? Why don’t they just award the Premiership to the team that wins the most contested footy every year. Melbourne 2018 premiers, congratulations, that’s exactly how I remember it going.

I’ve said my piece. I think Simpson is as likely as any coach to lead this group to a flag. If we miss out and the group goes through considerable change, farewelling the JK/Hurn/Nic/Shep/Shuey’s of the world, then we might well call time on Simmo and pivot. And that’s ok, that’s sport. But for now I’m backing him in.

Also probably can it with the “it’s people like you” and the “I bet you do xyz in your spare time” chat when you list Adelaide as your favourite club and literally only post on this board after losses. Doesn’t scream ‘genuine exchange of ideas, one Eagles fan to another’ to me.

 

[Balls In]

I dont rate Simmo or understand how we have ended with the dud assistant coaches we have. Its not our main issue though. We built a list around the best 22 in probably the entire AFL. They are never all on the park, or fit, or in form. Other teams have 30+ genuine AFL players to cycle through. The Kelly trade was the worst we've ever made, he isnt worth several good AFL players. He is marginally an above average player himself.

 

[RookiePick]

So why can we beat the best contested ball team in Port Adelaide, and absolutely dominate them at the contest? We got lucky one time? Why don’t they just award the Premiership to the team that wins the most contested footy every year. Melbourne 2018 premiers, congratulations, that’s exactly how I remember it going.

I’ve said my piece. I think Simpson is as likely as any coach to lead this group to a flag. If we miss out and the group goes through considerable change, farewelling the JK/Hurn/Nic/Shep/Shuey’s of the world, then we might well call time on Simmo and pivot. And that’s ok, that’s sport. But for now I’m backing him in.

JK and Hurn will hang them up this year.

We have talented players coming through but I fear they have actually been stunted in their reckoning of their own ability by Simpsons method.

Allen is the only player we have drafted under Simpsons watch who looks confident and dominant at the level - that we currently have access to. Willie and Liam are top shelf but they hardly represent a great strike rate over 7 drafts.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

I dont rate Simmo or understand how we have ended with the dud assistant coaches we have. Its not our main issue. We built a list around the best 22 in probably the entire AFL. They are never all on the park, or fit, or in form. Other teams have 30+ AFL players to cycle through. The Kelly trade was the worst we've ever made, he isnt worth several good AFL players. He is marginally an above average player himself.

I think that’s a little harsh on Kelly, give him an extended run playing with Shuey and Yeo and the skill and polish we recruited him for will shine through. He was pretty much tagged out of the game today because Geelong knew he was the only midfielder we have that can hurt them, they don’t need to worry about Sheed, Redden etc.
TK is not a superstar, but he is a seriously good A grade midfielder. Like other good midfielders he needs quality around him to shine. We don’t have it.

 

[JezMez]

Wait, which game in 2020? You mean the EF? I think you’re making things up there.

Hawthorn from memory. If we won, we would have been top 4. Top 2 I think even.

Make sure you get your ducks in a row before accusing someone of making something up.

And you really think getting rid of Simmo would solve any of these issues?

We are mentally and physically soft. That is a coaching issue.

And when you say "will it solve these issue?", well we do know Simmo has be trying for 2.2 years and hasn't been able to do it. That's a fact. In 3 weeks we had two abysmal losses. We've been on a slide for 2 seasons. Will a new coach solve it? I don't know but common sense and history tells us Simmo won't.

We are still in a flag window. Maybe this season, maybe next. We need to pull all stops to win a flag. The players for whatever reason are not responding to Simmo. Fresh coach, free stuff up, have a crack. If it fails, then there is little lost. We don't die wondering.

You’re just like those posters at the end of 2017 who kept banging on about Sumich and how he would solve all our problems.

No.

It’s not entirely Simmo’s fault, and it seems to me you’ve decided to discount the fact the team is facing the worst injury crisis we’ve ever seen.

Yes, because Simmo is the only one who makes all the decisions. What the hell is a selection committee anyway?

A coach's job is to get results. A coach's job is to get the players in the right mental frame of mind to perform at optimum. The coach doesn't do everything, but they set everything up and oversee. That's how footy works and I pity the fool who doesn't understand this.

 

[footballfreak]

No depth and a failure to replace lecras and rioli and even Venables.

Our bottom players, Ainsworth, Langdon, Jermaine Jones, Vardy.

No talented kids pushing for selection. Thats where sides improve

The year we introduced talent like Ryan and Rioli and Venables, that was 2018. It hasn't happened since. Blood new players. Replace these list cloggers

And we needed a goal kicking small forward and all we found were journeyman who struggle to kick goals- Langdon and Jermaine Jones.

 

[Cuzz09]

Lol. That's going too far the other way.

Bucks is a confirmed liar and all round farkwit on player relations.

Small credit for putting one through Molik.

I think it would be hilarious if he came to us and won his AFL flag. Delicious

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[JezMez]

So why can we beat the best contested ball team in Port Adelaide, and absolutely dominate them at the contest?

Wrong question.

We have a team on paper capable of winning a flag (that would be why i keep saying we are still in the flag window). So of course we can do it. The question is, "Why do we keep losing the same way (getting smashed in contested ball)?"

 

[ashblurton]

Just not good enough, need a minny reduild Kennedy, cripps, hurn and vardy need to go and we need to draft bulk midfielders, all midfielders, if we can get 2 decent ones from 5 then it’s a win, no spirit in our side at the moment

 

[Balls In]

I think that’s a little harsh on Kelly, give him an extended run playing with Shuey and Yeo and the skill and polish we recruited him for will shine through. He was pretty much tagged out of the game today because Geelong knew he was the only midfielder we have that can hurt them, they don’t need to worry about Sheed, Redden etc.
TK is not a superstar, but he is a seriously good A grade midfielder. Like other good midfielders he needs quality around him to shine. We don’t have it.

My comment wasn't really targetted at TK. Its more the miscalculation that his recruitment cost us 2 years of drafts

 

[greatwhiteshark]

My comment wasn't really targetted at TK. Its more the miscalculation that his recruitment cost us 2 years of drafts

Based on our drafting we missed out on 2-3 forward pocket players. When you get a good player you can’t really worry about what we may of got out of the juniors.

 

[HoneyBadger35]

Wrong question.

We have a team on paper capable of winning a flag (that would be why i keep saying we are still in the flag window). So of course we can do it. The question is, "Why do we keep losing the same way (getting smashed in contested ball)?"

And when we win handily, do you say "why do we keep winning with this dominant time of possession game"? I doubt it.

You don't like the game style. That's ok. I think Simmo is still the guy. You don't. That's ok.

Nobody is trying to sugar coat how shit today was. It was horrendous. Sacking a coach in the midst of what you've said is Premiership window, to turn the list over to some unknown "better coach" candidate is folly. Until you name the coach, you can't just say "sack the coach and get a better one". The coaches you put forward were thoroughly uninspiring and to me would represent slamming the Premiership window closed to chase a pipe dream.

While we're at it - why don't we just "get" better midfield depth?