Review What Daniel Jackson Does

[santa claws]

he is the living embodiement of the proverbial glass half full. or empty depending on your view point.
hes also a reason why we have been and remain a mediocre footy side.

the jacksons of this world are a main reason why when we win (which aint often) its usually against fellow battlers. hes also a reason why we regularly get cleaned up by the better sides.
on rare occasions very good, sometimes good, but mostly ordinary.
when will people ever learn that players like jackson while capable of playing good footy will always cost dearly in one way or another. our recent history is littered with jackson types.

 

[PUNTROADHAMMER]

Get a grip folks, the reality is that no team has 22 Goddards.
Jacko's grunt work and fierce tackling is always overlooked - the same old doomsayers delight in just focussing on the negatives.
He's quicker, stronger, a better mark, a longer and arguably better kick than Brett Kirk and you wouldn't hear a bad word about Kirky.

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

Get a grip folks, the reality is that no team has 22 Goddards.
Jacko's grunt work and fierce tackling is always overlooked - the same old doomsayers delight in just focussing on the negatives.
He's quicker, stronger, a better mark, a longer and arguably better kick than Brett Kirk and you wouldn't hear a bad word about Kirky.

But Kirk didn't takes strides as big, when near the footy, and therefore didn't over committ as often as Jackson does.
Nothing wrong when Jackson makes the right choice he looks fantastic , but for mine, he way to often is found caught over committed in the wrong direction .
Either a super tackle or clearance in our favour or a opposition player heading into their forward line with no pressure .

 

[santa claws]

Get a grip folks, the reality is that no team has 22 Goddards.
Jacko's grunt work and fierce tackling is always overlooked - the same old doomsayers delight in just focussing on the negatives.
He's quicker, stronger, a better mark, a longer and arguably better kick than Brett Kirk and you wouldn't hear a bad word about Kirky.

the thing with kirk is he has one thing in spades that jackson doesnt and never will. just a minor thing called footy smarts and knowhow.
all decent players have to have it in varying degrees unfortunately jacko has none or next to none.
he should have stuck with rowing.

 

[_RT_]

I'd like to know one thing from those who say we're stuffed as long as Jackson is in the side.

Just who do you have in mind on the current list to replace him?

In recent weeks I've seen Contin mentioned as one possible replacement and I've also seen Grigg mentioned. Just wondering how people expect Contin who is 5cm shorter & 12kg lighter and Grigg who is 2cm taller but 7kg lighter to handle the bash and crash work that Jackson seems to thrive on?

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

the thing with kirk is he has one thing in spades that jackson doesnt and never will. just a minor thing called footy smarts and knowhow.
all decent players have to have it in varying degrees unfortunately jacko has none or next to none.
he should have stuck with rowing.

Kirk is a fine player but he is also 35 and in the twilight of his career so he would be demonstrating footy smarts/knowhow on the field cos he's just too old to throw his body around anymore...

Kirk has 10 years on jackson...plenty of time for jackson to acquire those footysmarts/knowhow...

 

[Infamy]

Kirk isn't in the twilight of his career, he's retired

 

[Haggard H]

Good player, in my best 22.

I've said it before, if it wasn't for Cotchin, Jacko would be the next to wear number 17.

 

[dothebowdenshuffle]

First off, great video mate, had the old blood pumping after watching this one. This video showed what I have been saying about Jackson for ages, he need a player like him in this side. Those slightly off the ball hits and bumps, hard tackles where you slam players and times when he was pushing players around are exactly what this club needs, for too long I've seen our players be bullied off the ball and there is no way to be a successful club without having a player who does this. It's not dirty, its aggressive and it's about time. Sure, he does hold the ball up every now and then, but just look at his effort in the final minutes of that game, he throws himself onto a contest from about 5 metres away, his actions inspire others to do the same.

I distinctly recall this game. We fell 33 points behind at one stage and when we were down, one player kept doing all the hard yakka, not Riewoldt, Deledio, Collins or Newman - it was Jackson. He kept going at 100% intensity crashing bodies with the Swans midfield and i have no doubt that in the end we wore them down due in no small part to jackson's ferocious work rate that day. Having said that Jacko's 2010 was solid but not spectacular. I think he can improve - just hit a very solid level on a consistent basis and keep showing the way with all the grunt work

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

I'd like to know one thing from those who say we're stuffed as long as Jackson is in the side.

Just who do you have in mind on the current list to replace him?

In recent weeks I've seen Contin mentioned as one possible replacement and I've also seen Grigg mentioned. Just wondering how people expect Contin who is 5cm shorter & 12kg lighter and Grigg who is 2cm taller but 7kg lighter to handle the bash and crash work that Jackson seems to thrive on?

Well RT I suggested upon another thread that I hope by season end we aint playing all 3, Jacko, Tuck and Grigg in the one side. I stated that for one reason solely, because I believe if 1 or 2 of those aren't in our best 22 by seasons end it will be a very good indication that some of our players who don't have their ball winning ability have improved in that area signifcantly. Incidentally I purposefully don't think I alluded to that fact untill it had reached significant debate .
I hope we don't have a / singular, player replace them, I hope that those that have probably shown greater ability elsewhere, can improve enough that collectively they counteract the need for those that prodominate contested ball winners ?
Personally I don't see where else upon the ground, once their bodies commence to age where they can contribute , and yes I realise that Jackson aint old, but it's probable injuries, based on the way he plays and the amount of time he has played on ball, will take a toll upon him earlier than most.

 

[_RT_]

Well RT I suggested upon another thread that I hope by season end we aint playing all 3, Jacko, Tuck and Grigg in the one side. I stated that for one reason solely, because I believe if 1 or 2 of those aren't in our best 22 by seasons end it will be a very good indication that some of our players who don't have their ball winning ability have improved in that area signifcantly. Incidentally I purposefully don't think I alluded to that fact untill it had reached significant debate .
I hope we don't have a / singular, player replace them, I hope that those that have probably shown greater ability elsewhere, can improve enough that collectively they counteract the need for those that prodominate contested ball winners ?
Personally I don't see where else upon the ground, once their bodies commence to age where they can contribute , and yes I realise that Jackson aint old, but it's probable injuries, based on the way he plays and the amount of time he has played on ball, will take a toll upon him earlier than most.

Its all well and good having others step up and win more footy, but my point is who is/are the player/s that is/are going to step up and take over the bash and crash that Jackson thrives on. The biggest asset Jackson brings to the table as part of our midfield is his size he is listed at 188cm & 91kg and I can't remember the last time we had a mid that size running around.

IMO there is no-one on our list at present who is physically capable of doing the job week to week like Jackson is. It was quite clear when Jackson got suspended late in the season that we missed his hardness around the ball and that saw us get pushed around.

 

[Ralll]

Dont think he can make it as a mid, but he has made the tagging role his own and has thrived since taking it on.

An important part of our team, hope he plays every game in that role.

 

[Infamy]

Given Tuck is turning 30 late this year, he won't have that long left in the game. His new contract is only 1 year with a 1 year option so he's still playing for his career.
Jackson & Grigg are far younger big bodied inside mids and we need a few to offer protection to Martin so I don't see either of them going anywhere any time soon. When/if Jackson is replaced by a superior talent then we know we'll be going well as a side.

 

[the ranger]

This is maybe the best thread of the off-season. No matter what your opinion of Jackson, it's really an interesting discussion that goes beyond simple statements based on your prejudices (either for or against) the player. Nice work Rayzor.

For what it's worth, I love Jacko as part of our first 22. I just wish he didn't get rubbed out so often. That's not entirely his fault as he has been pretty unlucky with his treatment from the MRP.

 

[Rayzorwire]

In the first example Jackson was under next to no pressure when he disposed of the ball, at the very least he should have been able to hit Griffiths or Jack but his kick lands in between the 2 of them...

It's a very tough kick, he's got no space to run into and pick up some speed without risking getting caught with the ball so he has to kick from a virtually standing start and there are no easy options. Your 'at the very least' expectation is a kick very few players would have pulled off because the ball has to travel 50m+, low, flat and hard from a standing start. As it was, Jackson pulled it off well enough to put us deep into attack. It's no coincidence he had our most I-50's last year, we want him bombing it long and fast, putting the same sort of pressure on defences as he did there.

As you said yourself you can't hang a turnover that happens 3 possessions after Jackson disposes of the ball but want to credit Jacksons play with a turnover that happens 30 seconds after a Jackson disposal was itself in effect turned over.

Of course it's to Jackson's credit if we're inside-50 with the opportunity to score through pressure solely because he got the ball there with a kick that travelled maybe 70m including the bounce. Best case scenario he hits the target and we have a mark, worst case scenario it's like a rugby 'turnover' kick for territory which we can pounce on - the kind of bullet-proof football style we need to be able to play. There are way less 'pure' goals - perfect kick to a perfect lead, mark, goal - than people think, a lot of goals are scratched out the hard way and it's all about getting the ball to a place where fighting and winning it is going to ensure the scoreboard keeps ticking over.

The other one involving Riewoldt that I do have a problem with is at the 19min mark of the last quarter where Jackson gets the mark on the wing and again under little pressure fails to put the ball to Riewoldts advantage and as a result is turned over almost immediately.

Firstly, we end up with possession from that long kick, which again put Sydney under pressure, Collins turns it over after winning advantage, secondly, I'm not sure if you noticed it but that particular clip is more there for the last half a second where you catch a very brief glimpse of Jackson smashing the ball carrier having followed his kick down field and worked his arse off to keep influencing the game after the kick didn't quite come off.

I also have an issue with the White one. While its great that Jackson took the game and and went long to White, it must be said that the option he took isn't the greatest. Watching the replay the Swans players were in prime position for the crumb but, luckily, the ball bounced our way instead. To you it looks great because we ended up gaining possession again and Nason delivered down the ground. But what happens if the ball did bounce the Swans way? You've got 2 Swans with no Tigers in the immediate vacinity chances are very much that the Swans go forward and get a shot on goal.

That doesn't answer the question about which option you'd prefer him to take. Yes it was risky, but it's Geelong style football where you back your teammates in contests and play attacking football. What style would you prefer?

Wont add anything to the discussion, but great work Razor. Having people like you adding quality points for discussions (and vids I might add) makes our board worth visiting.

If they had gold star thingys I'd give you one, but you'll just have to settle for this:

What north said. Great work Rayzor.

Cheers lads, my whole yard is literally quicksand ATM so I had the time, been meaning to do it for a couple of years now.

 

[Rayzorwire]

Watch the full replay against Hawthorn. Perfect example off (sic)...

A game which isn't the video example everyone can see and discuss here? How convenient eh?

Few examples - When he gets the ball in congestion he doesn't know what to do with it because he lacks football smarts so he holds it up killing any flow in the play then basically telegraphs where he's going to handball it. Another problem in his game is every 2nd kick kick is a long, blind bomb to no one or to the opposition. Last but not least the biggest problem in his game is he struggles to hit basic short 15-30m passes. Would've had a huge amount of turnovers against Hawthorn trying to spot up short targets.

He has the exact same turnover rate as another pretty decent inside-mid - Chris Judd - so to take one game at random and suggest the complete opposite is plain and simply an exercise in intellectual dishonesty. Hardwick clearly wants him to kick long and use his penetration as an attacking weapon, he had the most I-50's for us, there are set plays based around him being able to kick long to danger zones, so really, what you're suggesting is that Hardwick and the coaching staff are complete fools.

[H]e's used as an offensive inside mid and I can't understand why. The more Jackson gets the ball the more worse off we're.

Because Hardwick comes from a line of thinking which (quite rightfully IMO) admires and advocates the Brad Sewell style run with role over a Ryan Crowley style run with role.

Jackson smashed Kennedy in the Swans game, his head was down very early in the game, he got 25% less possessions than he averaged for the year and most were heavily pressured and ineffective, 75% less tackles than he averaged for the year, and Jackson had infinitely more influence on the game. If we can keep doing that to the opposition's primary extractors we'll win plenty of games. If we can have a tough, hardened side like Sydney worn down by a plethora of big hits and tackles dished out mostly by Jackson, we'll win plenty of games. Those legal hits by themselves are enough to win a GF, let alone the rest of what he did. I suspect most of you blokes permanently overlooking the worth of a big hit have never been properly shirt fronted and tried to play on.

There were increasingly less 'hard stopper' tags employed by all coaches last year, the simple reason is that with a hard tag you effectively sacrifice a man, whereas with a Sewell/Jackson tag you eliminate the effectiveness of an opposition player AND effectively get a free extra offensive mid in the bargain.

Once you understand that you'll understand what we're trying to do, and maybe even why it's the far better approach. Or maybe not.

Whilst his disposal is at times questionable this can, just like all our players, be largely rectified by adhering to structures. Our players don't RUN therefore we never have anyone to kick to, cue ball hold up.

Exactly TS, it's obvious how static we are in several of these clips and it leaves the ball user (in this case Jackson) with lower percentage options than we ideally want.

I hope that will start to change this year as we get more senior bodies and better athletes in our outside brigade on the wings and flanks, but I also like the fact that we're capable of successfully basing our forward structure around getting it in long and fast if the ideal perfect safe options aren't available - it's pretty bullet proof football and stands up in finals.

the thing with kirk is he has one thing in spades that jackson doesnt and never will. just a minor thing called footy smarts and knowhow.
all decent players have to have it in varying degrees unfortunately jacko has none or next to none.

Once again your hilarious bias and need to be right in this 7-year cyber war against Jackson completely blinds you to reality Claude. Did you even bother watching the video, or is this just another thread where you take a cue word and ramble away, mindful that you need to post another dozen auto-repeat rambles here and elsewhere before the day is out?

Anyone who can watch that video and see how Jackson flips the ball to Graham in that centre clearance (nice pick up and handball for another bloke with absolutely no playing future isn't it? ) and so brilliantly slides out the tackle to get the ball to him, see him slide in and bail King out of a holding the ball situation with perfect subtlety, hold the ball at half back then nail Moore as the best option, thread the eye of a needle to Reiwoldt in the last quarter, apply his tackles so perfectly and tailor them to each situation etc., then turn around and say he has no footy smarts, either doesn't even begin to understand what footy smarts are, or just refuses to be honest.

I think you know a little about footy smarts.

This is maybe the best thread of the off-season. No matter what your opinion of Jackson, it's really an interesting discussion that goes beyond simple statements based on your prejudices (either for or against) the player. Nice work Rayzor.

Cheers ranger.

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

Kirk isn't in the twilight of his career, he's retired

Thats interesting...kirk is still listed in the swans websites statistics...

Thank you for the update......

 

[Infamy]

he had the most I-50's for us

Are you sure? I thought that was Lids
Especially with the number of games Jackson missed, I find that hard to believe

There was too much text to respond to the rest

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

Its all well and good having others step up and win more footy, but my point is who is/are the player/s that is/are going to step up and take over the bash and crash that Jackson thrives on. The biggest asset Jackson brings to the table as part of our midfield is his size he is listed at 188cm & 91kg and I can't remember the last time we had a mid that size running around.

IMO there is no-one on our list at present who is physically capable of doing the job week to week like Jackson is. It was quite clear when Jackson got suspended late in the season that we missed his hardness around the ball and that saw us get pushed around.

As I raised in the previous post RT , I hope we don't look to a single person to replace Jacksons attributes , rather our midfield group collectively improves in those areas with development . Realistically , this season our midfield will see Bling, Collins and most likely Nason , replaced with Foley, Houli and Grigg . I'd suggest that alone is a fairly significant step . It is shaping up as though the form of Batchelor and Conca, may well see Edwards pushed aside within those rotations also , whether that be themselves or them playing off half back allowing others into midfield rotations .
There is some significant ball winning ability already added and you'd hope and assume that those individuals are only going to
Improve ?

 

[Tiger_Stripes]

Watched the Freo replay last night and two things got highlighted for me:

1) Our game plan is heavily focused around rebound sprints facilitated by a fast player roving the release kick over the zone. In this game Deledio orchestrates some ripper release kicks and you can actively see all of our players attempting them. Jackson makes a very good release kick (which isn't always directly to a player but rather over them so they can run onto it) to King. These instances where he puts it very long past a pack and the opposition just simply rebounds it is, under these circumstances, highlighting a failure of our players, particularly small forwards, to get into position and rove that kick. Make no mistake though, a couple of those attempted release kicks were absolute mongrels haha, but, to the same effect. I think at times we showed our overeliance on the release kick/I50 bomb for Riewoldt where there were shorter open options our players could of and should of kicked to, hopefully this season we see this spreading of options more often.

2) Edwards is a gun, his lateral movement in traffic is simply stunning. Once he works consistency into his game and hammers out his decision making he'll be a star. Has flare in spades with those little knack plays he makes that no one on our list seems to have.

 

[TJTIGER]

Once again Good stuff Razorwire. For me as a fan of D.J. He does at times have issues around disposal but the situations he is in are extreme.Statistically if the neg outweigh the positive I'm sure the coaches will act in the best interests of the club/team. The other thing is he has'nt even played 100 games so while he is in the leadership group by AFL standards he still is not what I would call an experienced player but overall I'm pleased with the way he's come on in the last couple of seasons. I also agree with whoever pointed out that when he was'nt in the team (suspended) last season I sure noticed his grunt missing in the midfield.

 

[_RT_]

It's a very tough kick, he's got no space to run into and pick up some speed without risking getting caught with the ball so he has to kick from a virtually standing start and there are no easy options. Your 'at the very least' expectation is a kick very few players would have pulled off because the ball has to travel 50m+, low, flat and hard from a standing start. As it was, Jackson pulled it off well enough to put us deep into attack. It's no coincidence he had our most I-50's last year, we want him bombing it long and fast, putting the same sort of pressure on defences as he did there.

Of course it's to Jackson's credit if we're inside-50 with the opportunity to score through pressure solely because he got the ball there with a kick that travelled maybe 70m including the bounce. Best case scenario he hits the target and we have a mark, worst case scenario it's like a rugby 'turnover' kick for territory which we can pounce on - the kind of bullet-proof football style we need to be able to play. There are way less 'pure' goals - perfect kick to a perfect lead, mark, goal - than people think, a lot of goals are scratched out the hard way and it's all about getting the ball to a place where fighting and winning it is going to ensure the scoreboard keeps ticking over.

Firstly, we end up with possession from that long kick, which again put Sydney under pressure, Collins turns it over after winning advantage, secondly, I'm not sure if you noticed it but that particular clip is more there for the last half a second where you catch a very brief glimpse of Jackson smashing the ball carrier having followed his kick down field and worked his arse off to keep influencing the game after the kick didn't quite come off.

That doesn't answer the question about which option you'd prefer him to take. Yes it was risky, but it's Geelong style football where you back your teammates in contests and play attacking football. What style would you prefer?

Look I think that its great that Jackson took the game on and it looks great as long as that high risk high reward kick comes off. The problem is that when those high risk high reward kicks don't come off that gets the fans upset as it leaves us exposed to the easy turnover goal because our players are caught out of position.

As such I'd much prefer on occassions to see Jackson take the option that is less riskier but can still lead to the same ultimate reward. I mean think about it, he averaged the most inside 50s for us last year and yet we only marked the ball 7% of the time. Imagine how much better it would be if that % was up around the 20-25% range, that would mean we're having 3-4 more shots on goals from his I50 entries.

 

[doddy87]

He is by far and away in our best 22 he is easily in our best 10 tbh.
I still dont get why people dont rate him, he does the hard work week in and week out...

 

[tiggywigs]

Good OP. I'm a Jacko fan, though I find his foot disposal irritating at times. I subscribe to the view that his value will become more widely appreciated as Dimma's game plan becomes more obvious and successful. A required player who will be in the engine room when we next make the finals.

 

[Rayzorwire]

Are you sure? I thought that was Lids

Average per game.

Statistically if the neg outweigh the positive I'm sure the coaches will act in the best interests of the club/team. The other thing is he has'nt even played 100 games so while he is in the leadership group by AFL standards he still is not what I would call an experienced player...

That's it TJ, they're very happy with his contributions so far, but he still has a fair bit of improvement left in him as he racks up more games - people forget he's played less than 50 games as a midfielder.

As such I'd much prefer on occassions to see Jackson take the option that is less riskier but can still lead to the same ultimate reward.

Which specific option is that in the examples we've discussed?

I mean think about it, he averaged the most inside 50s for us last year and yet we only marked the ball 7% of the time. Imagine how much better it would be if that % was up around the 20-25% range, that would mean we're having 3-4 more shots on goals from his I50 entries.

Given the fact we played with only one genuine senior tall forward target who was often double teamed, I think it'd be fair to suggest that a better forward setup with multiple valid marking options alone will improve that somewhat, but the reality is that we're never going to get high percentage of marks from long kicks into the forward line no matter who is taking them, these days the defenders are too well drilled in getting numbers to the aerial contest while the ball is in flight.

The longer you kick it the longer it's in flight, the less chance there is of a clean grab, however, if the most likely thing happens - the ball goes to ground - you are well set to at least defend the territory you've gained and force a stoppage inside-50.