What does Clarke need to do...

[sherb]

And while it's easy for me to say, given the hype Clarke had received almost from the moment he stepped out for NSW, he'd have been far better served to keep his head down. The fast-car-flashy-women thing and his open embrace of all the publicity that came with it just played into the negative stereotype people formed of him.

So he should have driven a Datsun 200B, got himself a fat, bogan girlfriend and employed minders to keep the pesky media away from him?

If people use criteria like those to validate or form opinions of the guy just confirms where the problem lies. And it ain't with Clarke.

 

[MisterMarcus]

So he should have driven a Datsun 200B, got himself a fat, bogan girlfriend and employed minders to keep the pesky media away from him?

Of course not, but alot of the media attention he did bring on himself. He courted a particular image in his youth and that's fine. But as a public figure you can't then complain if that image defines you in a way that is not always positive.

As I've said, that has nothing to do with respect for his on-field achievements. Clarke will, and should, be respected by the public for his batting in the past 6 months especially. But he will probably never be "loved" personally by the public. They're two seperate issues.

 

[frankrizzo]

Exactly and while i can only shake my head at people who run down clarke's on field achievements because they don't like his personality im equally scratching my head at people who think we have to love clarke the bloke simply because he's a good skipper and in great batting form.

You don't have to like a players off field personality to be able to respect his on field achievements and by the same token you can't excuse a players bad form just because you think he's a top bloke.

I will say though some people need to understand that going on and on about not liking clarke the bloke when they are discussing what he's done in a test is tiresome, in this thread is the right forum for it, in a game thread it's pointless and petty.

But this is bigfooty, you are labeled either a hater or an apologist with no middle ground allowed, how about being a rational adult instead?

 

[imadodgyumpire]

I really don't see how that's a contradiction, surely it isn't that hard to understand what he is trying to say?

I get what he's trying to say and the context. It was an inconsistency I picked up. Just wondering if anyone else had or what they thought.

Sorry, but this is a load of crap. Clarke was made captain on the basis of the fact that he had been the vice captain for a number of years and had captained the team admirably in Ponting's absences. I'm not exactly sure what more he was supposed to do to prove his captaincy credentials "on the field".

Unless you are trying to draw a connection between playing ability and captaincy.

For a lengthy period of time previous to being promoted as the actual captain, Clarke was just as modest and uninspiring as Rick was. Rick was demoted and Clarke was promoted. Never mind that the decision looks sweet and rosy right now. I get the factors that made him captain. Has what I'm trying to say become a little clearer?

Refer to my response to BACCS regarding Clarke's opinion of his bigger scores.

[youtube]5hfYJsQAhl0[/youtube]

@ imadodgyumpire

Gee, I now join the massive cruise ship of recieving smart**** c*** (unoriginal as well) from Atheist. You’re lucky that I’m not allowed to have a signature more than 35 characters, atm. But anyway, never mind then.

 

[Tyberious Funk]

For a lengthy period of time previous to being promoted as the actual captain, Clarke was just as modest and uninspiring as Rick was. Rick was demoted and Clarke was promoted. Never mind that the decision looks sweet and rosy right now. I get the factors that made him captain. Has what I'm trying to say become a little clearer?

Yeah, well I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. IMHO Clarke's captaincy during Ponting's absence (when he was injured), was excellent. After getting thrashed by the English during the Ashes, we turned it around in the one-dayers and beat them 6-1... under Clarke's captaincy.

In particular, I thought he did an outstanding job handling Steve Smith during the series. It was obvious that Clarke knew how to handle spinners... and attribute that Ponting completely lacked.

FYI, Ponting was "anointed" as a future captain pretty much since he was a teenager (despite his captaincy ability eventually being proven to be pretty mediocre). He was also a complete toss-pot as a youngster (remember the Bourbon and Beefstake incident?) Never did blonde tips or modelled underwear like Clarke. But he's had an obvious hair transplant and done a stack of stupid ads for Valvaline and Swisse.

And yet, somehow he hasn't drawn a fraction of the criticism of Clarke.

 

[imadodgyumpire]

Yeah, well I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. IMHO Clarke's captaincy during Ponting's absence (when he was injured), was excellent. After getting thrashed by the English during the Ashes, we turned it around in the one-dayers and beat them 6-1... under Clarke's captaincy.

In particular, I thought he did an outstanding job handling Steve Smith during the series. It was obvious that Clarke knew how to handle spinners... and attribute that Ponting completely lacked.

What if, in that mock quote he said or implied "I had to become captain, Ricky was hopeless"? Do you think people who don't like Clarke would warm to him a bit? I reckon they would.

FYI, Ponting was "anointed" as a future captain pretty much since he was a teenager (despite his captaincy ability eventually being proven to be pretty mediocre). He was also a complete toss-pot as a youngster (remember the Bourbon and Beefstake incident?) Never did blonde tips or modelled underwear like Clarke. But he's had an obvious hair transplant and done a stack of stupid ads for Valvaline and Swisse.
And yet, somehow he hasn't drawn a fraction of the criticism of Clarke.

I do remember all that, I suppose Ricky gets the benefit of social/media being smaller then compared to nowadays...That and the inclination to cut him some slack because 1) He is, at best, 2nd or, at worst, the 4th best batsman in Australian Cricket History and 2) At the time of his debut, even up until the year previous, at such a young age, Ricky was legitimately one of the top 6 best batsmen in the country. The same can't be said for Clarke. Those facts count for a lot.

While I'm not going to pretend that I'm a fan of his. The truth is I was only posing a thought, I wasn't having a personal crack at him, everyone can think of reasons not to like him, I was thinking what he could do to turn public opinon around. Being brutally honest, I think, would help. Not that he, or I, give a s*** whether or not he does.

I just want to say though, to all of his fans on here. On this and the other thread I've been active in (India Kittens thread) I'm disappointed nobody, so far, has bought up Clarke's 130-odd at Lords in '09 in his defence. That, was truly an amazing knock.

 

[Cousin Jed]

move on

 

[King Elvis]

Ponting wasn't really a annointed though, was he?

He was a candidate, with Gilly and Warney.

Personally I think the B&B incident was the making of him.

 

[Simple Jack]

Ponting wasn't really a anointed though, was he?

He was a candidate, with Gilly and Warney.

Personally I think the B&B incident was the making of him.

Yep. Went through a process when Waugh 'stepped down' from the ODI side which Punter won.

No similar situation with Clarke.

For me, Clarke has to perform well as batsman and captain consistently (i.e. not a hundred in the first test and then rubbish) during the 10 tests against England next year.

He is certainly off to a good start (as captain) though.

 

[DeadlyAkkuret]

Seeing as he's got quite a good Ashes record (maybe not the last series) I'm confident he'll bat and captain really well.

I think he's changed as a player in a pretty big way.

 

[Tyberious Funk]

Yep. Went through a process when Waugh 'stepped down' from the ODI side which Punter won.

What exactly was the "process"? Gilchrist was the vice-captain at the time. And had captained the team a few times in Waugh's absence. When Waugh was dumped from the one-day team, Ponting leap-frogged the more credentialled candidate.

By contrast, Clarke has been the vice captain and had captained the team in Ponting's absences. And when Ponting was dumped from the captaincy, there really weren't any other viable candidates.

But somehow the perception is that Ponting earned his stripes, while Clarke was gifted the captaincy. IMHO, it was actually the other way around.

 

[Glacier]

I wonder if after this pretty successful start as captain, if it goes wrong even on the next tour ( long shot though it will be in the carribean ) will those who have gone from mindless hate to riding the bandwagon turn quickly ??

 

[Wicked Lester]

Way to early to make judgements.

Clarke's been in the role for less than 12 months. The early signs are good, and critically for Clarke, he doesn't inherit the $hit Sandwich that Ponting did of taking over a great but ageing team.

IMO, three critical things have happened to Clarke that have been in his favour:

1) the long term injury to Mitchell Johnson;
2) the appointment of Craig McDermott as bowling coach;
3) the emergence of genuinely young and exicting bowlers.

From 1 and 2 above, we now have a fast bowling unit that can consistently bowl to a plan. You'd never know it from some of the critics, but Ponting had plans as well. You only needed to look at his field settings for certain batsman to know it. The problem was his bowlers and particularly Johnson were incapable of bowling to the plan and, hence, field placements were moved to more conventional settings. Whether its the influence of McDermott or just a growing maturity in Siddle and Hilfenhaus, the sudden ability of these two to pitch the ball up and bowl consistently to a plan has been instrumental in the team's improvement.

The rise of Starc and Pattinson has been expected for 2 years now, its only been a case of waiting for them to get some first class experience. Cummins came from nowhere.

So, fortuitously Clarke winds up with something Ponting didn't have for 4 years now - depth in the fast bowling department and bowlers with the mental capacity to stick to a plan.

The real challenge for Clarke as I see it, is rebuilding the batting order. With Ponting and Hussey inevitably departing some time in the next year or two, there'll be some major changes and the first class records of the next cab of the rank group (the likes of Cowan, Forrest, Marsh, Ferguson) arent a patch on the previous generation (Hussey, Katich, Lehmann and so on).

Provided Clarke performs with the bat however, he'll probably be forgiven batting failures. He may however need to move up the order to demonstrate, as the team's best batsman, that he's prepared to shoulder the responsibility. If the team is not perofrming with the bat it will be a bad look for the captain to be coming in at 3rd wicket down.

Early days, and the signs are quite good but there are challenges ahead.

The batting is anything but settled with a renewed and unhealthy reliance on the veteran players, while looking about the broader test scene Pakistan looks to be on the rise, England (depsite its current hiccups) is settled and its core players (strauss aside) are young enought to be around for the remainder of Clarke's tenure and, Kallis aside, a similar obversation can be made about South Africa.