What happens to the State Leagues with the return of the Reserves?

[Papa G]

I'm not against the SANFL as a concept. It used to be a great league. Just there are too many ****heads running it and it's clubs who still think it's 1985. Jake Parkinson could probably do some decent things with it but the old fossils in Club land would agree to it. Actually since that bird started running things at Unley, coupled with the way they benefited from Port's One Club reunification by having their 2 most important players fall into their laps, Sturt have been a pretty well run club.
It will be interesting to see the SANFL without Port. How will they go without the bogeymen? Who will they now blame?

 

[fumbler]

16 a side, I want it back now.

There’s something to be said for sure about living a less complicated existence. I get to go to as many Norwood away games as I feel like Even the trek to Noarlunga is just a ‘day trip’ with a packed lunch
Except for the continual barrage of AFL news in the local media, for the most part I can ignore being bombarded by the Circus-like BS that surrounds the AFL and everything they do that seems to register as ‘news’ in this city.

Besides.
Following Norwood makes me happy. It is arrogant in the extreme and projecting somewhat to determine what I ‘really’ want and what I don’t. hence why PB is now on my ‘ignore’ list.
If the SANFL suffers at the hands of the AFL Reserves? Norwood will survive.

I don't think any of the State Leagues bar maybe the VFL will suffer, I think it will be totally opposite.
Maybe at the start there may be a few hiccups, but after a few seasons they will be able to forge those old rivalries once again without the AFL clubs undermining it.
The VFL and other state leagues that don't currently have reserves or development leagues will be able to start these back up, the world will be their oyster.

 

[chazwazza]

There’s something to be said for sure about living a less complicated existence. I get to go to as many Norwood away games as I feel like Even the trek to Noarlunga is just a ‘day trip’ with a packed lunch
Except for the continual barrage of AFL news in the local media, for the most part I can ignore being bombarded by the Circus-like BS that surrounds the AFL and everything they do that seems to register as ‘news’ in this city.

Besides.
Following Norwood makes me happy. It is arrogant in the extreme and projecting somewhat to determine what I ‘really’ want and what I don’t. hence why PB is now on my ‘ignore’ list.
If the SANFL suffers at the hands of the AFL Reserves? Norwood will survive.

Yep, it’s nice to go into a weekend without being bombarded by
“The AFL have changed club songs!!!!!” Oh the horror!
“Ollie hasn’t signed!!!!!” OUTRAGE!!!
“Will Rory sign?????” OMG!!
“Insert repeat offender d***head was on the pi$$ again!!!!” WHAT! OH NO!!!!!

It’s nice just to go to a game of footy without having to endure a Clockwork Orange style barrage in the week leading up to it and at the game.
Robert Louis Stevenson once said something I try to live by-
“To know what one prefers, instead of what the world tells you you ought to prefer, is to have kept your soul alive.”
That sums up how I approach the SANFL and following Sturt. What any Port (or any other AFL) supporting numptie thinks of it or whether they think it’s a valid competition or not I couldn’t give a rats toss bag.
If they’re not a supporter or a member of the comp they don’t have a say in it.

 

[chazwazza]

I'm not against the SANFL as a concept. It used to be a great league. Just there are too many ****heads running it and it's clubs who still think it's 1985. Jake Parkinson could probably do some decent things with it but the old fossils in Club land would agree to it. Actually since that bird started running things at Unley, coupled with the way they benefited from Port's One Club reunification by having their 2 most important players fall into their laps, Sturt have been a pretty well run club.
It will be interesting to see the SANFL without Port. How will they go without the bogeymen? Who will they now blame?

Who are the ****heads running it that think it’s still 1985?
Who are the old fossils?
Do you want to swap Jack Hombsch and Chad Wingard for Beard and Kirkwood? Who’s benefitted out of that exactly? You can’t have it both ways!
Remember, it was the choice of the PAFC to renege on their One Club promise that resulted in The Magpies becoming a Power Reserves, it was their decision to get rid of those players, PAFC wasn’t forced. To say that Kirkwood “fell into our laps” is nonsense, you do realise he was going to play in the VFL after leaving Port. Sturt talked to him and he spoke to Beard and Watts who had chosen to come to Sturt hence he changed his mind. But believe what you need to suit your narrative.
Port won’t be missed especially in their current guise.

 

[fumbler]

I really hope that this thread stays the course and doesn't turn into a West Horsham shit fight

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Yep, it’s nice to go into a weekend without being bombarded by
“The AFL have changed club songs!!!!!” Oh the horror!
“Ollie hasn’t signed!!!!!” OUTRAGE!!!
“Will Rory sign?????” OMG!!
“Insert repeat offender d***head was on the pi$$ again!!!!” WHAT! OH NO!!!!!

It’s nice just to go to a game of footy without having to endure a Clockwork Orange style barrage in the week leading up to it and at the game.
Robert Louis Stevenson once said something I try to live by-
“To know what one prefers, instead of what the world tells you you ought to prefer, is to have kept your soul alive.”
That sums up how I approach the SANFL and following Sturt. What any Port (or any other AFL) supporting numptie thinks of it or whether they think it’s a valid competition or not I couldn’t give a rats toss bag.
If they’re not a supporter or a member of the comp they don’t have a say in it.

I have as good a time at the local footy as I do at the AFL.

It’s different but certainly not unenjoyable. The footy is of a pretty good standard, you can stand around with mates and drink cans and eat real food.

 

[chazwazza]

I’m a Sturt Member, never been a member of any AFL club, doubt I will. I would however consider becoming a Williamstown member and go to some of their games during trips to Melbourne. $60 isn’t much to support a club that needs it, money better spent.

 

[eth-dog]

I have as good a time at the local footy as I do at the AFL.

It’s different but certainly not unenjoyable. The footy is of a pretty good standard, you can stand around with mates and drink cans and eat real food.

Obviously don't go to the VAFA then. Stupid rule...

 

[Walshawk]

which is my point. Coburg are still here despite the odds, and Frankston came back from having its license stripped. Anything is possible.

Preston have juniors so they are a chance. Box Hill is run by Hawthorn. There is not a single Mustangs supporter left. There is no one who could revive anything. Well dead like Springvale Scorpions.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Obviously don't go to the VAFA then. Stupid rule...

Yeah I give that a miss. Blokes playing school footy in their 20s and 30s... get over it lads.

 

[chazwazza]

Preston have juniors so they are a chance. Box Hill is run by Hawthorn. There is not a single Mustangs supporter left. There is no one who could revive anything. Well dead like Springvale Scorpions.

A mate moved to Melbourne a few years ago, he’s a SANFL supporter and decided to go to a few Coburg games and became a member. I think this was shortly after Richmond ceased their affiliation with them. Anyway he told me some people at Coburg weren’t overly happy with what happened during that agreement and left some bitterness around the club. It’s something I hear about many AFL affiliates that have happened and begs the question how these VFL clubs will go once dumped for an AFL Reserves Comp. It could well be worse for East Perth who are aligned with West Coast.
There were people at Sturt that we’re pushing for aligning with Adelaide as we were broke and verging in shutting the doors. I would’ve walked away if that had happened and I’ve got many friends that have walked away from the SANFL due to the two reserves teams entering. They’ll come back to their clubs once Port and Adelaide are out.
The tiers below the AFL is a dogs breakfast, numerous sets of rules, salary caps and rules being thrown out the window to suit an AFL club during finals. It’s a disgrace.

 

[Papa G]

There were people at Sturt that we’re pushing for aligning with Adelaide as we were broke and verging in shutting the doors. I would’ve walked away if that had happened and I’ve got many friends that have walked away from the SANFL due to the two reserves teams entering. They’ll come back to their clubs once Port and Adelaide are out.
The tiers below the AFL is a dogs breakfast, numerous sets of rules, salary caps and rules being thrown out the window to suit an AFL club during finals. It’s a disgrace.

Lol and these dipshits have missed out on 2 flags in the process. 1 of them against a team that they despise and has all these "unfair advantages". The irony is delicious.

 

[chazwazza]

Lol and these dipshits have missed out on 2 flags in the process. 1 of them against a team that they despise and has all these "unfair advantages". The irony is delicious.

Who’s to say they’re Sturt supporters. You assume too much Papa McNuggets.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

I’m a Sturt Member, never been a member of any AFL club, doubt I will. I would however consider becoming a Williamstown member and go to some of their games during trips to Melbourne. $60 isn’t much to support a club that needs it, money better spent.

Nice sentiment, but what the former VFA clubs need isn’t donations... it’s to get reacquainted and engaged with their communities and become true local clubs again.

The problem the VFA/VFL clubs have had for a lot of their history is their refusal to do this. They’ve long seen themselves above local footy rather than the top of it. All of them at some point decided to become AFL affiliates and turn themselves into reserves sides. They’ve also fallen into the chase for undrafted TAC Cup players and not gone the local route, trying to be a development league.

Meanwhile local footy clubs have stepped up and filled that void and in many cases are thriving.

They’re not the AFL, they’re not going to attract theatregoers. If they want support and sustainability they need to immmerse in and engage with their local communities. Then they might become real clubs again.

Five now stand alone again and are back on the road to this hopefully. Getting into a real footy league without reserves teams would be a huge step.

 

[Walshawk]

Nice sentiment, but what the former VFA clubs need isn’t donations... it’s to get reacquainted and engaged with their communities and become true local clubs again.

The problem the VFA/VFL clubs have had for a lot of their history is their refusal to do this. They’ve long seen themselves above local footy rather than the top of it. All of them at some point decided to become AFL affiliates and turn themselves into reserves sides. They’ve also fallen into the chase for undrafted TAC Cup players and not gone the local route, trying to be a development league.

Meanwhile local footy clubs have stepped up and filled that void and in many cases are thriving.

They’re not the AFL, they’re not going to attract theatregoers. If they want support and sustainability they need to immmerse in and engage with their local communities. Then they might become real clubs again.

Five now stand alone again and are back on the road to this hopefully. Getting into a real footy league without reserves teams would be a huge step.

Great post. Local footy is thriving in the eastern suburbs.
Sandy and Preston need to split soon from their AFL partnerships or it will be too late like Box Hill and Springvale (different reasons I know).

 

[madmug]

Yep, it’s nice to go into a weekend without being bombarded by
“The AFL have changed club songs!!!!!” Oh the horror!
“Ollie hasn’t signed!!!!!” OUTRAGE!!!
“Will Rory sign?????” OMG!!
“Insert repeat offender d***head was on the pi$$ again!!!!” WHAT! OH NO!!!!!

It’s nice just to go to a game of footy without having to endure a Clockwork Orange style barrage in the week leading up to it and at the game.
Robert Louis Stevenson once said something I try to live by-
“To know what one prefers, instead of what the world tells you you ought to prefer, is to have kept your soul alive.”
That sums up how I approach the SANFL and following Sturt. What any Port (or any other AFL) supporting numptie thinks of it or whether they think it’s a valid competition or not I couldn’t give a rats toss bag.
If they’re not a supporter or a member of the comp they don’t have a say in it.

Yes most on BF kicking the guts out of State leagues have no idea of the damage being done under the AFL determined attempts to 'develop' kids in a hurry. I think their whole process is wasteful, expensive & really very damaging to so many.

I spoke to an exAFL coach about this at a social event in Hobart some years ago. I mentioned my concern/thoughts after seeing kids come back after being cut & having real problems with chronic injuries. Lord knows about their mental health. He said he had the same concerns seeing the same thing on a much larger scale. !!!!!

I said on another thread about the way we lost so many Mariner u18 players who either gave up on footy of just played more socially than back at their TSL clubs after being put through the ringer. I saw some cut from & come back with long term & sometimes career ending injuries. Some stay interstate because they get a job & relationship etc & are lost to club, friends & family. My friends in other clubs have said the same to me.

Another reason to have strong state leagues to develop players, but also to see players return to a capable & supportive club & community.

It cant be AFL or nothing. Thats just awful

 

[Still Crowing]

<<snipped>>

It cant be AFL or nothing. Thats just awful

Sometimes it appears that's how the AFL wants it.
I wonder what type of event we need to happen for them to wake up to fact that would be not only terrible, but would harm the longterm viability of the elite AFL comp? A draft that is so shallow its embarassing?A traditional football state like Tassie being in turmoil doesn't seem to have registered
One of the real strengths of Aussie Rules footy is its unity..particulary compared to the very fractured sport of Soccer. If the AFL uses divide and conquer to obliterate the State Leagues so it can be the only footy in town, then it cant complain if that disunity caused the sport to fall into decline some time in the future.

 

[scotty13]

I can see massive changes happening should a reserves competition be given the go ahead.
State leagues will get even lower on talent, and in 5-10yrs, the AFL will introduce an under18 concept, where the best juniors from each state will be aligned to a club and compete at a higher under 18 level.
Zones will come back in, and juniors will get drafted into the AFL in a similar fashion to how f/s and academy players are drafted now.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

I can see massive changes happening should a reserves competition be given the go ahead.
State leagues will get even lower on talent, and in 5-10yrs, the AFL will introduce an under18 concept, where the best juniors from each state will be aligned to a club and compete at a higher under 18 level.
Zones will come back in, and juniors will get drafted into the AFL in a similar fashion to how f/s and academy players are drafted now.

They can dress it up all they like but at the end of the day it will still be just junior footy. Drafting should be done from mens footy and this is where the AFL have it wrong. Their obsession with youth is making drafting a lottery. I laugh every year at the lead up to the national draft hearing how good these kids are when in fact very few will make it and how would anyone know how good they are as they have not played mens footy yet.
A Chris Judd comes along very rarely, I would draft out of a state league before I even looked at a colts comp to draft from.

 

[Farang83150]

Good call below IMO.

The second-tier competitions are valuable contributors to the Australian football landscape and not just because they provide a place to play for those outside of a club’s best 22.
Of the 20 players taken in the national and rookie drafts from WA last year eight were older than national under-18s age.
Several of them — Liam Ryan, Tim Kelly and Bailey Banfield — are well and truly in the mix to play for their teams in round one.
Last year’s draft experience should make us wary about trusting the “wise” voices from the east.
We were told all year that the WA talent pool was barren but with a credible coach, Peter Sumich, producing a strong performance at the national titles and an equally strong voice advocating the local talent, a barren talent pool somehow became a bumper draft crop.
A conservative estimate of the cost of flying reserves teams back and forth across the Nullarbor is likely to run to at least $1 million per year.
Why would anyone spend $1 million per year on airlines and hotels when they could tip it straight into the WAFL and make it a stronger competition, not just for AFL-listed players to play in, but also for young up- and-coming talent to develop in?

https://thewest.com.au/sport/mark-d...tion-doesnt-pass-the-sniff-test-ng-b88777965z:

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Good call below IMO.

The second-tier competitions are valuable contributors to the Australian football landscape and not just because they provide a place to play for those outside of a club’s best 22.
Of the 20 players taken in the national and rookie drafts from WA last year eight were older than national under-18s age.
Several of them — Liam Ryan, Tim Kelly and Bailey Banfield — are well and truly in the mix to play for their teams in round one.
Last year’s draft experience should make us wary about trusting the “wise” voices from the east.
We were told all year that the WA talent pool was barren but with a credible coach, Peter Sumich, producing a strong performance at the national titles and an equally strong voice advocating the local talent, a barren talent pool somehow became a bumper draft crop.
A conservative estimate of the cost of flying reserves teams back and forth across the Nullarbor is likely to run to at least $1 million per year.
Why would anyone spend $1 million per year on airlines and hotels when they could tip it straight into the WAFL and make it a stronger competition, not just for AFL-listed players to play in, but also for young up- and-coming talent to develop in?

https://thewest.com.au/sport/mark-d...tion-doesnt-pass-the-sniff-test-ng-b88777965z:

The AFL want their comp to be a colts comp for some reason. It has nothing to do with voices from the East. It is nationwide this obsession with youth which is proven year in year out that clubs are recruiting players not only not ready to play at the top level but not even close to being good enough to play at that level. The AFL is supposed to be the best of the best, not a development ground. Leave the development to the state leagues to produce footballers ready to go at the best of the best level.

 

[chazwazza]

I can see massive changes happening should a reserves competition be given the go ahead.
State leagues will get even lower on talent, and in 5-10yrs, the AFL will introduce an under18 concept, where the best juniors from each state will be aligned to a club and compete at a higher under 18 level.
Zones will come back in, and juniors will get drafted into the AFL in a similar fashion to how f/s and academy players are drafted now.

I can understand why some Port supporters (not saying you necessarily) have spite towards the SANFL, I don’t agree that it’s always valid but that’s how they want to frame it.
The thing is that wishing State Leagues to die out is moronic, it plays on small minded prejudices in the short term at the behest of a longer term benefit, it erodes the fabric of Aussie Rules.

If the State Leagues and the clubs with long and proud traditions can be strong, viable and compete in strong competitions then it strengthens football in general, strengthens the other comps below it and the AFL above it.
Surely that is a good thing.
At a time when the AFL is very concerned about junior participation compared to that of soccer surely you need to strengthen all pathways possible and build on the traditions and strengths they offer.
There will come a time where the AFL’s dream run of “success” and profits will start failing, if they don’t invest in the foundations that are already there they will get a rude shock.
People easily forget how young a comp the AFL is, sure there’s the VFL history but that changed at a desperate time when many clubs were insolvent and unviable.
Hardly a solid foundation.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

State league will be better for it, ATM they are trying to compete with the budgets of AFL clubs and many of them are going to the wall doing it. Without the need to compete with the AFL clubs the competition will go back to being local and grass routes and the clubs will be able to set up long term sustainable plans.

In Victoria the most important thing is to merge the TAC Cup clubs with the VFL Clubs, could have a Senior and & u19 team (no need for reserves).. The senior team will give direct pathways to un-drafted players to continue in the system instead of going back to local level and chasing cash, should also control player payments as clubs wont have to recruit hard when they have a pool of ready made players at hand. They will also be able to merge administrative functions which reduce the overall costs to run the club significantly and obviously share facilities and coaching staff.

 

[Still Crowing]

State league will be better for it, ATM they are trying to compete with the budgets of AFL clubs and many of them are going to the wall doing it. Without the need to compete with the AFL clubs the competition will go back to being local and grass routes and the clubs will be able to set up long term sustainable plans.

In Victoria the most important thing is to merge the TAC Cup clubs with the VFL Clubs, could have a Senior and & u19 team (no need for reserves).. The senior team will give direct pathways to un-drafted players to continue in the system instead of going back to local level and chasing cash, should also control player payments as clubs wont have to recruit hard when they have a pool of ready made players at hand. They will also be able to merge administrative functions which reduce the overall costs to run the club significantly and obviously share facilities and coaching staff.

Perhaps in the future for the SANFL it will be considered too much to have League team, Reserves u/19s and u16s?
I think League team and u/18s would be enough to ensure the talent path to the AFL remains viable and sustainable.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

I think at SANFL it's too much to have League team, Reserves u/19s and u16s.
I think League team and u/18s would be enough to ensure the talent path to the AFL remains viable and sustainable.

I agree, have reserves pulls too many players from local leagues with very little benefit. I think making it U19s is the best outcome because it means the kids jump from 19s to senior football should be fairly smooth for any 19-20yo, where players can still be very raw and lean and not ready for senior football when they finish u18s. Additionally under the model i propose with with the TAC cup teams merging with VFL there would be nothing stopping a player who is ready stepping straight into senior footy which would fast track the development and have them more ready to play AFL if they are drafted.