Strategy What is going wrong? A discussion of tactics, strategy and execution issues and how to fix them

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Yardie

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I hope this link works!

Well worth watching this video. There are a few things subtly mentioned in this video that have been discussed in this thread. Keeping feet and running to where your next involvement are two important facets. But also being aware of your position and being aware the space around you.
I also liked the discussion about what do Sydney want you to do and how Worpel admitted he fell into the "trap". You not only have to be conscious of what we want you to do but also how the opposition try and get you to do what they want.
 

OnTheRocks

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I also liked the discussion about what do Sydney want you to do and how Worpel admitted he fell into the "trap". You not only have to be conscious of what we want you to do but also how the opposition try and get you to do what they want.
Its how the very good players in any game think.
What does my opponent want/expect me to do? Then do the opposite.
 

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Come back Cyril

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I watched the Port v Tigers game and came away thinking the Power have worked out how to break the press better than any other team I have seen. There were two things they did which were noticeably different than any other team I've watched.

1. They played on quickly from a turnover EVERY TIME - it seems obvious that this would be the best way to score before a team's zone is set, but the Power did this even when it seemed ridiculous to do so and did so by kicking to a lot of contests in dangerous positions, which brings me to the second point..

2. They kicked to contests in the centre square A LOT - because I have watched a lot of football with slow ball and safe ball movement in the past few years, I winced almost every time they did this, but interestingly even when they turned the ball over, they didn't get scored on nearly as much as you would think from these dangerous positions, and the amount of goals the created from these risky kicks far outweighed the number of goals they conceded.

I know a lot of teams try to implement both the fast play on and the kick back into the corridor, but I have never seen a team do this nearly as often as Port - it seems they have a team wide edict to play fast attacking football. It was great to watch, some of the most attractive football I've seen this year.

I realise that some of this is about having The right personal (Port has a lot of quick, evasive players, and Charlie Dickson to kick to when all else fails). But some of it is also clearly game style and coaching.

I would love to see the Hawks looking at a similar attacking gamestyle next year.
 

Yardie

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I watched the Port v Tigers game and came away thinking the Power have worked out how to break the press better than any other team I have seen. There were two things they did which were noticeably different than any other team I've watched.

1. They played on quickly from a turnover EVERY TIME - it seems obvious that this would be the best way to score before a team's zone is set, but the Power did this even when it seemed ridiculous to do so and did so by kicking to a lot of contests in dangerous positions, which brings me to the second point..

2. They kicked to contests in the centre square A LOT - because I have watched a lot of football with slow ball and safe ball movement in the past few years, I winced almost every time they did this, but interestingly even when they turned the ball over, they didn't get scored on nearly as much as you would think from these dangerous positions, and the amount of goals the created from these risky kicks far outweighed the number of goals they conceded.

I know a lot of teams try to implement both the fast play on and the kick back into the corridor, but I have never seen a team do this nearly as often as Port - it seems they have a team wide edict to play fast attacking football. It was great to watch, some of the most attractive football I've seen this year.

I realise that some of this is about having The right personal (Port has a lot of quick, evasive players, and Charlie Dickson to kick to when all else fails). But some of it is also clearly game style and coaching.

I would love to see the Hawks looking at a similar attacking gamestyle next year.
I wasn't able to watch the game but do you think that the quick play on is aimed at catching out the Richmond swarm? So when the ball moves forward the swarm runs quickly forward but an intercept and play on (even to a contest) creates a mismatch in numbers in favour and if it is turned over the swarm is running back so in effect caught out again and have to turn around.
 

savagelunchbox

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Port setup 3 mids on the defensive side of the contest. They knew that all Richmond mids run forward in number as soon as they win the ball. Port used those 3 to swarm the Richmond ball handler (no, not Short or Vlaustin) and cause a turnover. When they had the turnover, Richmond were all behind the ball and Port then spread wide and fast. Caught Richmond out many, many times. Meant that Port's F50 was relatively open for Charlie to utilize.
 

Come back Cyril

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I wasn't able to watch the game but do you think that the quick play on is aimed at catching out the Richmond swarm? So when the ball moves forward the swarm runs quickly forward but an intercept and play on (even to a contest) creates a mismatch in numbers in favour and if it is turned over the swarm is running back so in effect caught out again and have to turn around.
It would seem it is absolutely aimed at the Richmond swarm and savagelunchbox gave a good analysis of the specific set up they used.

Even in our premiership years Port seemed to favour a quick play on style, but this was the most I had ever seen them use the corridor - they often kicked to players vastly outnumbered within the swarm, but are willing to back their skills and behind the ball structure (as Brishawk alluded to).

Can't adopt that style overnight but gee it's good to watch when it comes off.
 

StevieDewar

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Wasn't sure if this was the right thread for it (mods please move it more appropriate elsewhere)

I preface this by saying the side is struggling to kick goals, and with shorter quarters sides are kicking less goals.

Our midfielders are just not hitting the scoreboard with any regularity when compared with 2019. Here are the numbers

PlayerGames 20192019 (Goals.Behinds)Games 20202020 (Goals.Behinds)
O'Meara
21​
8.11​
9​
4.3​
Mitchell (2018)
24​
13.7​
10​
1.0​
Worpel
22​
9.8​
10​
0.3​
Shiels​
19​
10.12​
10​
4.0​
Smith
19​
9.8​
10​
5.2​
Henderson
22​
12.8​
7​
0.0​
Scully​
21​
12.6​
10​
1.1​
Cousins
12​
8.4​
0​
0.0​
Mcevoy (role change)
19​
8.2​
10​
3.1​
Ceglar
15​
5.6​
8​
1.0​
TOTAL (AVE)
194 (19.4)​
94.72 (9.4/7.2)​
84 (8.4)​
19.10 (1.9/1)​

I included Mitchell's 2018 numbers to show the drop off from their previous season to 2020.

When you exclude Mitchell our midfield group kicked 81 goals 65 behinds from an average of 18.89 games.

This year(taking out cousins who hasn't played) the group has kicked 19 goals 10 behinds from an average 9.3 games

Happy to add any other players who spent a lot of time through the middle/wing last year for comparison.

2019: 146 shots at goal
2020: 29 shots at goal

When you take into account half the games played and shorters quarters, there is still a large discrepancy to in our mids hitting the scoreboard.

Scully kicked 12 goals last year - only 1 this year
Henderson also with 12 last year - no score this year
Worpel 9 goals last year - none this year
Mitchell 13 goals in 2018 - 1 this year

They are the four with the biggest drop off in scoreboard impact this year. O'Meara and Shiels on track to replicate 2018 (or reasonably close)

Cousins kicking 8 goals from 12 games was important, something possibly overlooked in his abilities.
 

Gohawthorn13

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I get the impression clarko is trying to take the game back to being more direct and simple but it’s not working maybe in a normal season you can implement it better but this season is a disaster can’t really take much out of it just move on a few older players try and get a few free agents and nail your first round pick do those things and there’s no reason we can’t fly back up the ladder we have a good core group of players.
 

Gohawthorn13

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Wasn't sure if this was the right thread for it (mods please move it more appropriate elsewhere)

I preface this by saying the side is struggling to kick goals, and with shorter quarters sides are kicking less goals.

Our midfielders are just not hitting the scoreboard with any regularity when compared with 2019. Here are the numbers

PlayerGames 20192019 (Goals.Behinds)Games 20202020 (Goals.Behinds)
O'Meara
21​
8.11​
9​
4.3​
Mitchell (2018)
24​
13.7​
10​
1.0​
Worpel
22​
9.8​
10​
0.3​
Shiels​
19​
10.12​
10​
4.0​
Smith
19​
9.8​
10​
5.2​
Henderson
22​
12.8​
7​
0.0​
Scully​
21​
12.6​
10​
1.1​
Cousins
12​
8.4​
0​
0.0​
Mcevoy (role change)
19​
8.2​
10​
3.1​
Ceglar
15​
5.6​
8​
1.0​
TOTAL (AVE)
194 (19.4)​
94.72 (9.4/7.2)​
84 (8.4)​
19.10 (1.9/1)​

I included Mitchell's 2018 numbers to show the drop off from their previous season to 2020.

When you exclude Mitchell our midfield group kicked 81 goals 65 behinds from an average of 18.89 games.

This year(taking out cousins who hasn't played) the group has kicked 19 goals 10 behinds from an average 9.3 games

Happy to add any other players who spent a lot of time through the middle/wing last year for comparison.

2019: 146 shots at goal
2020: 29 shots at goal

When you take into account half the games played and shorters quarters, there is still a large discrepancy to in our mids hitting the scoreboard.

Scully kicked 12 goals last year - only 1 this year
Henderson also with 12 last year - no score this year
Worpel 9 goals last year - none this year
Mitchell 13 goals in 2018 - 1 this year

They are the four with the biggest drop off in scoreboard impact this year. O'Meara and Shiels on track to replicate 2018 (or reasonably close)

Cousins kicking 8 goals from 12 games was important, something possibly overlooked in his abilities.
I simply think we haven’t adapted well to the changes COVID Has caused.we were cherry ripe rnd 1 and the performance reflected that but everything else since has helped some teams but not us.
 

LMGjr

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I simply think we haven’t adapted well to the changes COVID Has caused.we were cherry ripe rnd 1 and the performance reflected that but everything else since has helped some teams but not us.
Sorry OOTF.

Simple answers are not the answer. It has to be someones fault.



:cool:
 

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TylerDurden

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Wasn't sure if this was the right thread for it (mods please move it more appropriate elsewhere)

I preface this by saying the side is struggling to kick goals, and with shorter quarters sides are kicking less goals.

Our midfielders are just not hitting the scoreboard with any regularity when compared with 2019. Here are the numbers

PlayerGames 20192019 (Goals.Behinds)Games 20202020 (Goals.Behinds)
O'Meara
21​
8.11​
9​
4.3​
Mitchell (2018)
24​
13.7​
10​
1.0​
Worpel
22​
9.8​
10​
0.3​
Shiels​
19​
10.12​
10​
4.0​
Smith
19​
9.8​
10​
5.2​
Henderson
22​
12.8​
7​
0.0​
Scully​
21​
12.6​
10​
1.1​
Cousins
12​
8.4​
0​
0.0​
Mcevoy (role change)
19​
8.2​
10​
3.1​
Ceglar
15​
5.6​
8​
1.0​
TOTAL (AVE)
194 (19.4)​
94.72 (9.4/7.2)​
84 (8.4)​
19.10 (1.9/1)​

I included Mitchell's 2018 numbers to show the drop off from their previous season to 2020.

When you exclude Mitchell our midfield group kicked 81 goals 65 behinds from an average of 18.89 games.

This year(taking out cousins who hasn't played) the group has kicked 19 goals 10 behinds from an average 9.3 games

Happy to add any other players who spent a lot of time through the middle/wing last year for comparison.

2019: 146 shots at goal
2020: 29 shots at goal

When you take into account half the games played and shorters quarters, there is still a large discrepancy to in our mids hitting the scoreboard.

Scully kicked 12 goals last year - only 1 this year
Henderson also with 12 last year - no score this year
Worpel 9 goals last year - none this year
Mitchell 13 goals in 2018 - 1 this year

They are the four with the biggest drop off in scoreboard impact this year. O'Meara and Shiels on track to replicate 2018 (or reasonably close)

Cousins kicking 8 goals from 12 games was important, something possibly overlooked in his abilities.
Great analysis. Geez, goal kicking wingmen hey. It's killing us. Scully's decline in all facets of his game is as bad as ive seen. It's diabolical.
 

Brishawk

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Wasn't sure if this was the right thread for it (mods please move it more appropriate elsewhere)

I preface this by saying the side is struggling to kick goals, and with shorter quarters sides are kicking less goals.

Our midfielders are just not hitting the scoreboard with any regularity when compared with 2019. Here are the numbers

PlayerGames 20192019 (Goals.Behinds)Games 20202020 (Goals.Behinds)
O'Meara
21​
8.11​
9​
4.3​
Mitchell (2018)
24​
13.7​
10​
1.0​
Worpel
22​
9.8​
10​
0.3​
Shiels​
19​
10.12​
10​
4.0​
Smith
19​
9.8​
10​
5.2​
Henderson
22​
12.8​
7​
0.0​
Scully​
21​
12.6​
10​
1.1​
Cousins
12​
8.4​
0​
0.0​
Mcevoy (role change)
19​
8.2​
10​
3.1​
Ceglar
15​
5.6​
8​
1.0​
TOTAL (AVE)
194 (19.4)​
94.72 (9.4/7.2)​
84 (8.4)​
19.10 (1.9/1)​

I included Mitchell's 2018 numbers to show the drop off from their previous season to 2020.

When you exclude Mitchell our midfield group kicked 81 goals 65 behinds from an average of 18.89 games.

This year(taking out cousins who hasn't played) the group has kicked 19 goals 10 behinds from an average 9.3 games

Happy to add any other players who spent a lot of time through the middle/wing last year for comparison.

2019: 146 shots at goal
2020: 29 shots at goal

When you take into account half the games played and shorters quarters, there is still a large discrepancy to in our mids hitting the scoreboard.

Scully kicked 12 goals last year - only 1 this year
Henderson also with 12 last year - no score this year
Worpel 9 goals last year - none this year
Mitchell 13 goals in 2018 - 1 this year

They are the four with the biggest drop off in scoreboard impact this year. O'Meara and Shiels on track to replicate 2018 (or reasonably close)

Cousins kicking 8 goals from 12 games was important, something possibly overlooked in his abilities.
I think this is primarily a function of our slow ball movement. Mids aren’t able to break forward into space. We also don’t hit up short targets just inside fifty. For some reason we have gone away from centering the ball when outside fifty to just bombing it to a predictable spot. Big problem is our players don’t seem to get in a position to retain the ball from those kicks and the opposition clears it regularly. Also, we are using our mids almost exclusively in the middle so they aren’t spending much time forward.
 

LMGjr

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Brishawk

From your analytical point of view (great job by the way) would you only have O'Meara and Worpel at the clearances and team Mitchel up with lets just say Finn in the future as a example, or Mitchel and Worpel and team O'Meara up with Finn?

From your sandwich pov etc what's the best mix going forward in that particular microcosm?

Is there a chance Clarko has been watching how they interact with each others strengths and weakness to know what is needed next year in that particular microcosm, that obviously changes the whole macrocosm once it's the right mix. He's shrewd operator who takes his time to make certain that thing are not working before changing. This is the first real look he's had of Mitchel, O'Meara and Worpel all in their at the same time.

Be interesting to see who he teams up with who for the rest of the year.
 

Mrzohs

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Starting to get very frustrated with the set-up the last 6 weeks we have kicked over 55 points once.
Wce,Port,Cats, have all had continued success playing a power forward deep 78 goals from Kennedy,Dixon,Hawkins Ave over 4 marks a game.
It give us hope that Patton or Lewis could work if fully fit and we can work out a suitable set-up and ball movement.

I see no positives or benefit of moving Sicily fwd in the last quarter (Syd,Freo) both times it opened the scoring up, if you are going to do it do at halftime or do it for 6 weeks, Fingers crossed it's not a bad injury. It might be the blessing in disguise we need to see the defence can function without him similar to the Ceglar injury and Mcevoy went back into the ruck.

On the weekend at one stage we went inside 50, 30 odd times and wce had 19 marks. Team selection this was always going to happen TOB the only tall fwd option against arguably the best marking defence in the comp. This is not good enough maybe the lil master has not had enough time on the training track with the players this year or the players are not listening to him and incapable of following the direction.

I would just like him to mix it up a lil bit it looks like most weeks we are running out with a similar front and back 6.
 

Brishawk

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From your analytical point of view (great job by the way) would you only have O'Meara and Worpel at the clearances and team Mitchel up with lets just say Finn in the future as a example, or Mitchel and Worpel and team O'Meara up with Finn?

From your sandwich pov etc what's the best mix going forward in that particular microcosm?

Is there a chance Clarko has been watching how they interact with each others strengths and weakness to know what is needed next year in that particular microcosm, that obviously changes the whole macrocosm once it's the right mix. He's shrewd operator who takes his time to make certain that thing are not working before changing. This is the first real look he's had of Mitchel, O'Meara and Worpel all in their at the same time.

Be interesting to see who he teams up with who for the rest of the year.
My general preference would be to play only two of O'meara, Mitchell and worpel together. We moved all three through the forward line this week and have done similar against Carlton. Less so last week for whatever reason. We really need a big bodied mid to control space and knock over opposition players.

Yesterday was the most physical Worpel has been all year. Was knocking guys over and attempting to break tackles and burst clear. Was also much better at keeping his feet. Where has that been all year??? The difference it makes is that Mitchell and he are particularly prone to going to ground so it leaves us one short on our feet a lot. So possibly something clicked for Worpel yesterday and this is the start of better performances.
 

Brishawk

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Starting to get very frustrated with the set-up the last 6 weeks we have kicked over 55 points once.
Wce,Port,Cats, have all had continued success playing a power forward deep 78 goals from Kennedy,Dixon,Hawkins Ave over 4 marks a game.
It give us hope that Patton or Lewis could work if fully fit and we can work out a suitable set-up and ball movement.

I see no positives or benefit of moving Sicily fwd in the last quarter (Syd,Freo) both times it opened the scoring up, if you are going to do it do at halftime or do it for 6 weeks, Fingers crossed it's not a bad injury. It might be the blessing in disguise we need to see the defence can function without him similar to the Ceglar injury and Mcevoy went back into the ruck.

On the weekend at one stage we went inside 50, 30 odd times and wce had 19 marks. Team selection this was always going to happen TOB the only tall fwd option against arguably the best marking defence in the comp. This is not good enough maybe the lil master has not had enough time on the training track with the players this year or the players are not listening to him and incapable of following the direction.

I would just like him to mix it up a lil bit it looks like most weeks we are running out with a similar front and back 6.
Nash was nominally a tall forward who was trying to drag McGovern away from the contest. IT didn't work well for us and Nash didn't read the play so when we needed him to fly he was usually in the wrong spot. We tried Obrien outside the fifty for the first quarter and at times during the game so that Gunston was the long target. He tried hard but doesn't bring the ball down as predictably as Obrien (for our crumbers). We really need a second (first really) KPF who can crash into packs and bring the ball down when out numbered but also represent a threat if/when he gets a one v one marking contest. Lewis should be that player and it is my hope he can regain his form. Needs to have a high work rate. We actually had plenty of inside fifties yesterday. Although not great quality, had we Brough the ball down more often we may well have been closer at 1/4 time.
 

Mrzohs

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Nash was nominally a tall forward who was trying to drag McGovern away from the contest. IT didn't work well for us and Nash didn't read the play so when we needed him to fly he was usually in the wrong spot. We tried Obrien outside the fifty for the first quarter and at times during the game so that Gunston was the long target. He tried hard but doesn't bring the ball down as predictably as Obrien (for our crumbers). We really need a second (first really) KPF who can crash into packs and bring the ball down when out numbered but also represent a threat if/when he gets a one v one marking contest. Lewis should be that player and it is my hope he can regain his form. Needs to have a high work rate. We actually had plenty of inside fifties yesterday. Although not great quality, had we Brough the ball down more often we may well have been closer at 1/4 time.
100% agree we both know Gunners or Tob are not that type of player. Nash is not much of aerial threat at the best of times poor planning and execution i feel.
Moving fwd i would like to see one of Lewis or Patton out of the square. Tob, Gunners half forwards presenting on the wings working back in the 50.
Is it worth upgrading Jeka and getting a few games into him it couldn't hurt.

Needs
-Line breaking mid with a lethal foot
-CHF, crashing packs high work rate lead up target.
-Frawley replacement.
-Mcevoy replacement.
 
Last edited:

Judd2Sewell

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Clarko has completely overestimated the list and the ability of his game plan to succeed in this current AFL climate. That's where it went wrong.

It's time for a overhaul of our list and fresh ideas in terms of the plan.
 

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