What is the problem with Kaiden Brand?

Brishawk

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They don’t show very much patience with him it seems. One poor game and his out. When Frawley didn’t get up the other week, Moore got the call up.
He has some big flaws in his game. He and O’Brien were drafted in the same year. Big guys take longer to develop and we have seen brand improve but when the ball hits the ground and he is running back to goal he panics. Needs better composure in those situations. If he is good enough and keeps improving his time will come.
 

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bris tarangau

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He needs more confidence and looks like the coaches are running out of patience. Not a good place to be but surely hope he comes good this season. Frawley is not getting any younger.
 

TallyHawk

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He has some big flaws in his game. He and O’Brien were drafted in the same year. Big guys take longer to develop and we have seen brand improve but when the ball hits the ground and he is running back to goal he panics. Needs better composure in those situations. If he is good enough and keeps improving his time will come.
I've been one wanting him to be given a decent run of games, he seems pretty unlucky with injuries. Hurt his shoulder earlier in the year, played sore the next week against Dee's and then dropped again.

His contested and intercept marking has improved. When the ball hits the deck he does not keep his feet and panics too much.

Looking at the size of Kosi I believe he is marked as Frawley's replacement. The kid looks more muscular than both Brand and O'Brien already.


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JoeHawk

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He has some big flaws in his game. He and O’Brien were drafted in the same year. Big guys take longer to develop and we have seen brand improve but when the ball hits the ground and he is running back to goal he panics. Needs better composure in those situations. If he is good enough and keeps improving his time will come.
I somewhat agree big guys take time to develop, but 7 years? TOB and Brand are around 25 now and should be killing it. Scrimshaw is only 20/21 and is way ahead of them already. They’re only getting game time now out of necessity and I really don’t see much improvement coming from either of them. Happy to be proven wrong but I think we’ve all seen enough along the journey. Can even throw Schoey in there. Has never really firmly consolidated his spot due to form, ability or injury
 

Simon_Nesbit

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Brand plays KPD like an undersized ruckman - which is essentially what he was when he was drafted (KPF/Ruck).

For most of his career he's been outmuscled (not outsized) - but against players he was physically developed to match, they were so much faster and more agile - once the ball hits the deck Brand does exceptionally well just to get a draw - the most common outcome is his opponent has clear disposal. Brand's only position in defence is as the #1 guy - and he NEEDS to play the ball, not the man. When he does, he actually looks very good. His issue, as with most young KPD is that as soon as his opponent wins a contest (it happens), he starts playing the man first, and looks completely lost. He goes back to VFL, is physically dominant so just plays the ball 100% of the time. With lesser skilled players there are more high aimless balls and his ability to compete/win against his opponent sees his confidence sky high. He's had the body for 2+ seasons now, yet is still overlooked for Frawley (who is significantly undersized now as KPD) anytime Frawley is fit. His confidence is smashed regularly both on-field and at the selection committee.

O'Brien always had the speed/agility, and the leap/mark when given an uncontested run at the ball. What he lacked was any sense of body position or the strength to hold his ground and a commitment/desperation that "maybe" was inherent, maybe an outcome of playing under-developed. Now, at 25 and after 7 pre-seasons that's starting to come. He's far more flexible now in that he can take all but the brutes/>2m players. As his body allows him to compete body-on-body, his other attributes are giving him significant advantages. Another season of reasonable performances and the confidence should see him develop further.

We can't play all three of Frawley/Brand/O'Brien, and when Brand plays, he should be standing the #1. Too often he isn't, is on a smaller more mobile player and gets exposed. He doesn't have the confidence of the coaching staff or his team-mates.
 

Argy

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He needs more confidence and looks like the coaches are running out of patience. Not a good place to be but surely hope he comes good this season. Frawley is not getting any younger.
When I played juniors back in the day we had a coach who really had a way with the kids. Fair dimkum, he said to one guy, "Look, you're too slow, you're fat, uncoordinated. And you lack confidence."
 

Dixie Flatline

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He has some big flaws in his game. He and O’Brien were drafted in the same year. Big guys take longer to develop and we have seen brand improve but when the ball hits the ground and he is running back to goal he panics. Needs better composure in those situations. If he is good enough and keeps improving his time will come.
I can't see Clarkson being too impressed with him losing the ball on several occasions on the ground against Carlton and giving away a sloppy free kick to his opponent.

I don't see Brand as a natural defender and therefore when he's out of his comfort zone, he panics and over-commits to the wrong decision.

Hawthorn's back six is pretty settled at the moment, so he's going to have to bide his time and hope that a position opens up in the next couple of months.
 

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4THAWN

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IMO has shows promise both at AFL and VFL level for some time. Has shown he can take big defensive contested marks, can win 1 on 1s against key forwards but he always seems to undo this good work through panic and lack of composure. If he could just be a bit more collected especially when the ball hits the deck then he would be able to make it at AFL level.
 

Simon Crawshay

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I am actually somewhat of a Brand fan. I think sometimes we can focus too much on a players weaknesses (in Brands case a lack of composure at times and struggles with ground balls) and forget their strengths (his ability to mark the ball and fairly decent kick for his size). I would persist with him for another year, at the very least he is insurance for Frawley who tends too miss a lot of matches througj injury.
 

rogiebear93

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I am actually somewhat of a Brand fan. I think sometimes we can focus too much on a players weaknesses (in Brands case a lack of composure at times and struggles with ground balls) and forget their strengths (his ability to mark the ball and fairly decent kick for his size). I would persist with him for another year, at the very least he is insurance for Frawley who tends too miss a lot of matches througj injury.
The club does persist more than a lot of other clubs with players, but at a certain point you do need player turnover to remain fresh. He's at the point where we'll move him on at the end of the season and look elsewhere for mine.

A positive for him is that he's probably played good enough footy for another club to show some interest should he want to go there.
 

Simon_Nesbit

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The club does persist more than a lot of other clubs with players, but at a certain point you do need player turnover to remain fresh. He's at the point where we'll move him on at the end of the season and look elsewhere for mine.

A positive for him is that he's probably played good enough footy for another club to show some interest should he want to go there.
Schoenmakers is approaching 30 and still hasn't got over his achilles/leg/groin complaints. It's time for that call to be made.
Roughy can see the light at the end of the tunnel.

Kozi2 is still a kid, despite his immense frame - it will take a year or two to strip and build the man.

We are running 1-2 KPP light this year.

Brand will get at least one more season - by which time Frawley will likely be slowing down (and hopefully TO'B established as an AFL-average defender or better). So he might be around for a while yet.
 

Luv_our_club

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He is Schoey MK2. Being played in the wrong position. Out of necessity unfortunately. If he has a brain fade up forward he kicks a behind or Breust crumbs it. Needs a run up front at Boxhill. Lets not die wondering.
I would love to see us try it. I would also like to see Scrimshaw tried forward.

Though i am far from convinced on the probable results.
 
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COKEandCOLA

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Feb 23, 2019
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I've been saying all season that if the club doesn't believe he will make it as a KPD then swing him up forward.

This would be playing him to his strengths (he's a natural forward) and minimize his weaknesses.

Considering our current situation for KPF stocks surely it should be a straight forward decision?

What do we honestly have to lose?

Either he excels and has a breakout season, filling a much needed hole in our list or he crashes and burns and gets dropped back to the VFL anyway.

If he's not given a good run at it this season surely he's out the door so let's give him every opportunity to show what he's capable of, either way at least we won't be left wondering.
 

COKEandCOLA

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He doesn’t even play as a forward at Box Hill.


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And that's supposed to mean something?

https://m.hawthornfc.com.au/news/2012-11-22/hawks-select-kaiden-brand

DOB: 08/04/1994
Height: 198cm
Position: Forward
Weight: 84kg

Bio: Tall and athletic forward with excellent power, and explosive speed. His agility, awareness of where to lead and contested marking ability make him a dangerous target up forward. Has had an excellent season at Colts level highlighted by a season best 6 goals and 18 possessions vs North Adelaide in Round 4, also played 3 games in the Reserves.
 

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