What we need - Draft?

[BlackGoanna]

I am not convinced going into the national draft that a KPB is our priority with pick 1, 17, 19 and 35.

I believe O'Hailpin is showing enough to be a potential CHB in the Lewis Roberts-Thompson mould. I am conviced he will make it. We have Whitnall and Thornton and after Bower's intro on the weekend I believe we have another KPB. Hartlertt was quite for the Bullants but did a couple of things to suggest when fully fit and bulked up is another KPB prospect. That gives us 5 KPB prospects to work with over the next 5 years.

IMO I believe we should target 3 best available players with picks 1, 17, 19 and try and steal Renouf (Ruckman) at 35 - another great game in the QAFL. Another QAFL player we should target is Armitage - Dominating with another BOG. If J Reiwolt slips down to 17-19 we should definetly look at him. Another 5 game haul.

Thoughts?

 

[Kooley]

bryce gibbs

 

[BlackGoanna]

bryce gibbs

Thats a given, Im talking later picks.

 

[parrot]

I am not convinced going into the national draft that a KPB is our priority with pick 1, 17, 19 and 35.

I believe O'Hailpin is showing enough to be a potential CHB in the Lewis Roberts-Thompson mould. I am conviced he will make it. We have Whitnall and Thornton and after Bower's intro on the weekend I believe we have another KPB. Hartlertt was quite for the Bullants but did a couple of things to suggest when fully fit and bulked up is another KPB prospect. That gives us 5 KPB prospects to work with over the next 5 years.
...

Tend to agree. I don't think we need to recruit a CHB. We already have 3 very good prospects (Bower, Hartlett, and Setanta). I firmly believe we should recruit on the basis of best talent, not try to pick and choose based on perceived strengths and weaknesses at this point in time. Gibbs will be picked, as he's the best talent in the draft. Our recruiting staff did an excellent job last year - all our draft picks look promising. Our rookie picks (Jackson, Flint) were also great choices.

 

[AlecDuncan]

Tend to agree. I don't think we need to recruit a CHB. We already have 3 very good prospects (Bower, Hartlett, and Setanta). I firmly believe we should recruit on the basis of best talent, not try to pick and choose based on perceived strengths and weaknesses at this point in time. Gibbs will be picked, as he's the best talent in the draft. Our recruiting staff did an excellent job last year - all our draft picks look promising. Our rookie picks (Jackson, Flint) were also great choices.

Yeah, we have to trust the recruiting guys to make the right judgement. It's pretty difficult sitting here in Melbourne trying to judge whether Gibbs is all hype or not.

Best available talent, but assuming Gibbs is as good as everyone says, then Gibbs it is.

 

[Smell The Glove]

Tend to agree. I don't think we need to recruit a CHB. We already have 3 very good prospects (Bower, Hartlett, and Setanta). I firmly believe we should recruit on the basis of best talent, not try to pick and choose based on perceived strengths and weaknesses at this point in time. Gibbs will be picked, as he's the best talent in the draft. Our recruiting staff did an excellent job last year - all our draft picks look promising. Our rookie picks (Jackson, Flint) were also great choices.

Dont quite agree with you there. Setanta looks good, but you must remember he is not a natural footballer, without the natural instincts of a top flight defender. yes, I think he will mature sometime into a handy player, but he is not the answer to our problems.

Bower looked quite promising on the weekend, and again, could mature into a decent backman with another season and a pre season or two. But he is still very untested and we wont know anyting for a while yet.

And Hartlett as promising, sadly, is laughable. The kid has been struggling to get out on the park for the Ants, let alone look like getting into the seniors. He is COMPLETELY untested, and all these people pencilling him into our backline in 2007 or 2008 or whatever need to realise he has a LONG way to go before he is CLOSE to being an AFL player. Ease up on the kid- he is not the answer to our problems, not for another two or three years yet.

PS. My idea of a 'prospect' would be something like Simpson or Betts. Someone who has had some game time, and has show more than a glimpse or two of an AFL standard.

 

[pumped]

Dont quite agree with you there. Setanta looks good, but you must remember he is not a natural footballer, without the natural instincts of a top flight defender. yes, I think he will mature sometime into a handy player, but he is not the answer to our problems.

Bower looked quite promising on the weekend, and again, could mature into a decent backman with another season and a pre season or two. But he is still very untested and we wont know anyting for a while yet.

And Hartlett as promising, sadly, is laughable. The kid has been struggling to get out on the park for the Ants, let alone look like getting into the seniors. He is COMPLETELY untested, and all these people pencilling him into our backline in 2007 or 2008 or whatever need to realise he has a LONG way to go before he is CLOSE to being an AFL player. Ease up on the kid- he is not the answer to our problems, not for another two or three years yet.

PS. My idea of a 'prospect' would be something like Simpson or Betts. Someone who has had some game time, and has show more than a glimpse or two of an AFL standard.

Tend to feel you could be right about Hartlett. From what I have seen his attitude doesn't appear to be what is needed. Hope we are wrong though as he has the ability. I think that Setanta has got what it takes though. Even though he is not native to footy he does seem to have an instict suited to our game. All he needs is more experience imo. Bower too looks as if he has a natural flair to be a very good defender. Based on this believe that we should target the best 3 picks.

 

[BlackGoanna]

Dont quite agree with you there. Setanta looks good, but you must remember he is not a natural footballer, without the natural instincts of a top flight defender. yes, I think he will mature sometime into a handy player, but he is not the answer to our problems.

Bower looked quite promising on the weekend, and again, could mature into a decent backman with another season and a pre season or two. But he is still very untested and we wont know anyting for a while yet.

And Hartlett as promising, sadly, is laughable. The kid has been struggling to get out on the park for the Ants, let alone look like getting into the seniors. He is COMPLETELY untested, and all these people pencilling him into our backline in 2007 or 2008 or whatever need to realise he has a LONG way to go before he is CLOSE to being an AFL player. Ease up on the kid- he is not the answer to our problems, not for another two or three years yet.

PS. My idea of a 'prospect' would be something like Simpson or Betts. Someone who has had some game time, and has show more than a glimpse or two of an AFL standard.

Your missing the point. We are talking about potential not what is in place today.

Lewis Roberts-Thompson was from a rugby background. He had an awkward first few years - they perservered and he is one of the best HCB in the competition. Sentanta is very similar at the same stage of his development. He is getting more confident with every game. Give him another full season. He may very well become more than just a handy player.

Bower, we are talking about potential.

Hartlett, has been injured continually since he started. He played in the ants on the weekend. He will be given another year on the list and opportunities, dont write him off.

p.s, are you trying to say that we should be trying to trade our picks for a betts/ simpson player?? Not sure of the point you are trying to make?

 

[AlecDuncan]

Hartlett, has been injured continually since he started. He played in the ants on the weekend. He will be given another year on the list and opportunities, dont write him off.

Same goes for Russell, although I'd expect both of them to get more than just another year. They're both not coming on as quickly as we'd like, but some guys take a while to find their own game the way Simpson has since the start of 2005.

One day they'll stop having to think about the coach's instructions, team rules, set-plays etc. and they'll start playing on their own terms in their natural style and it will all make sense. I hope.

 

[Bluebear]

Note to everyone on this thread.

PATIENCE.

Russel hasn't come on as quickly as we would like?????

Can we stop comparing everyone to Judd/Ball etc.

Simspon is a great example of patience. He is just now starting to hit some consistent form.

As for the thread topic - Gibbs a gimme - then next best avaiable talent whether its midfield/forward/back, talls and smalls. We have LOADS of players with potential, but many of them will do nothing - that's footy.
Remember Murray Vance????
The only guys that should be delisted are the older guys that have not improved since they arrived - because they are unlikely to get any better.
E.g. Teague, McGrath, Predergast, Chambers, Sporn.
Get as many young "guns" as possible, some likely to take the step and "make it".

 

[jj1978]

I think we get the best available for 2 reasons.

1. If we have an overload of good players in certain positions, then next year we have trade bait to use some of that excess to trade for what we need. We know we are not a good chance of making finals next year, but the year after!

2. Some depth, the more depth we get in some positions, the more hunger the players train and play to get into seniors. If we had Gibbs and Murphy next year in full flight, imagine the added hunger Scotland, Stevens, Simpson etc etc would have to maintain a senior spot. Makes nothing a gimme! Also the depth covers injuries which played against us in the wrong time of year when our forward line was decimated.

 

[Smell The Glove]

Your missing the point. We are talking about potential not what is in place today.

Lewis Roberts-Thompson was from a rugby background. He had an awkward first few years - they perservered and he is one of the best HCB in the competition. Sentanta is very similar at the same stage of his development. He is getting more confident with every game. Give him another full season. He may very well become more than just a handy player.

Bower, we are talking about potential.

Hartlett, has been injured continually since he started. He played in the ants on the weekend. He will be given another year on the list and opportunities, dont write him off.

p.s, are you trying to say that we should be trying to trade our picks for a betts/ simpson player?? Not sure of the point you are trying to make?

Im distinguishing between normal potential and real potential. Under your theory, every simgle player on an AFL list must have potential- thats why they are there. Im saying that real potential exists when they have been given an opportunity and have grasped it, at AFL standard, in some way. Hartlett hasnt done that, and I have a real problem with people talking about him like he is the next saviour or something. I am saying that everyone should give him a break and let him be a kid (in an AFL sense) Only when they get a opportunity and have actually DONE something can you be genuinely convinced they are a real shot at AFL- until then they are only a 'possible', like every other player on an AFL list. I never said Setanta should not be on the list next year- if you had have read my post you would see it necessarily infers that I believe he is worth persisting with.

BTW- can could you possibly infer that I trade anything for anything? I never even mentioned the word 'draft'

 

[no. 4]

Where will Edwards play if he makes it?

 

[HBF]

We need to take the best available talent when our picks come about. Our midfield really needs some work, so I suspect that might be where our first 2 picks go. After that, it just has to be best available.

 

[blues4flag]

We need to take the best available talent when our picks come about. Our midfield really needs some work, so I suspect that might be where our first 2 picks go. After that, it just has to be best available.

Agree, have heard some Carlton supporters say that we don't need a midfielder and get someone like Seller with our first pick. No chance of that, we desperately need another midfielder and Gibbs would be perfect - also helps that hes the best player in the draft. After the first probably few picks its arguable who's the next best anyway, so if we had a choiuce between two players of similar potential who play in different positions, we should (obviously) take the one who plays in the position we need most.

That said, we probably need a big key position defender, as I don't think that Bower will be able to play on the bigger types - such as Brown, Hall, Bradshaw, Gehrig etc. From what I've seen, seems to be more suited to the skinnier, more athletic types n(could be wrong, havent seen him play much) such as Franklin, Reiwodlt, Hentchel (though injured for a while), Robert Murphy. Setanta also seems to be suited to a HB flank. Hartlett could play key position but needs too improve soon - which I'm hopeful he will (don't want another Livingston). Someone in the mould of a Brian Harris, Rutten, Glass, Micheal will be great for what we need and allow Thornton to take the 2nd or 3rd forward and let Whitnall move into the forward line. Although realistcly it will be another 2-3 years before our defenders will be fully developed.

A ruckman is another area we need to look at, as Bryan is more a backup ruckman who can go forward, probably similar to Mark Jamar. Good around the ground, but weak in the ruck contests and we need a good prospect ruckman.

However, as I said, we should only go for this if they are worth the pick - for example, if theres a good defender but probably not worth pick 18 as there's a few better midfielders, than we should go the midfielders.

 

[Johnny_3]

what we need is a fast tallish midfielder... i.e judd, walker, deledio even franklin

 

[Bluebear]

what we need is a fast tallish midfielder... i.e judd, walker, deledio even franklin

Done, his name is Gibbs.

Franklin a tallish midfielder??????

Stop wishing for another Kouta, it may never happen. Murph and Gibbs with Stevo, Tex, and Simo will service us well for a number of years.

 

[Silvagnis]

Done, his name is Gibbs.

Gibbs isn't fast and we should wait to draft camp till we decide to draft the next Adam Chatfield.

 

[4blues]

Gibbs isn't fast and we should wait to draft camp till we decide to draft the next Adam Chatfield.

Whos Chatfield?

 

[Lance]

Gibbs isn't fast and we should wait to draft camp till we decide to draft the next Adam Chatfield.

Gibbs might not be fast, but is a fantastic reader of the play, and is a ball magnet. Some people are saying he may turn out to be another "Buckley". We can't afford to pass him up come draft time. No use in recruiting a fast player, who cannot get near the ball, like a lot of previous Carlton recruits. (Like Chatfield)

 

[Salaryman]

i always find these posts impossibly immature, but if you can't beat them...

Gibbs>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Chatfield

 

[Corrosion]

Pick 1 - Gibbs or Hansen. Will be very happy with either.

Pick 17 - Pettard

Pick 19 - Andrejs Everitt

Pick 35 - Daniel Dzufer - Left footer, who is moulded to be a flanker/utility (Played with him too).

Pick 51 - Tomi Johnston

 

[Silvagnis]

Gibbs might not be fast, but is a fantastic reader of the play, and is a ball magnet. Some people are saying he may turn out to be another "Buckley". We can't afford to pass him up come draft time. No use in recruiting a fast player, who cannot get near the ball, like a lot of previous Carlton recruits. (Like Chatfield)

You don't say?

 

[HBF]

Gibbs isn't fast and we should wait to draft camp till we decide to draft the next Adam Chatfield.

This guy should never ever be mentioned on this board ever again - you have been warned!

 

[BlueFeaver]

I still think our best CHB option is to play Waite. A back line consisting of
Waite, Thornton, Carlos and Bower gives us fantastic flexibity. Couple that with a mid-field that applies pressure further up the ground and our defensive woe's would almost be fixed. With these players in the Back Line our rebound wouldn't just be limmited to a indivdual player, we would have a multitude of options. These guys are also agile enough to play big or small.

The ideal solution IMO is to Gibbs and from there draft best availible talent. With a possibility of trading a pick for a interstate player that wants to return home. (Pref Ruck)