What's wrong with the Bendigo Pioneers?

[Schnail73]

Always rate your input schnail on what's going on at the Pio-knees, (is that a typo) but there comes a time when your pationette positive spin upon spin needs (and many times constructive) to be balanced against the zoning of the TAC sides. The Bendigo Pioneers are the only TAC team who don't enjoy the geography of a local oval. An oval to train on as a group week in week out, a full summer of set plays, team structures would be a boon for this side. But because of cost, the enormous size of their player grab and the horrible coaching centralised focussed mentality they seem to be obsessed with the only players capable of playing TAC must come from Bendigo or its immediate 100 k clubs. In reality they miss out on their massive zone. Time and time again, Players from the Mid Murray, Sunraysia and Mallee Leagues miss out because even though they are good enough or better, the mindset of the Bendigo Base is "dont rate players from outside the zone of comfort unless they are freaks" . Kids who work just as hard and would kick butt in TAC are missed because the Pioneers are too Bendigo focussed.
Perfect Example is the lad from Imperils in Sunraysia FNL who has been named nearly every week in the best players in the seniors in SFL for his hard ball gets. Nic Mee, 16 years and yet when the Pioneers played the rebels in Mildura a few weeks back, starts every quarter on the bench in a game where the Pioneers were belted in the contested possessions. Tells me there is an idealogy whcih needs to be addressed. Mee would be at 16 a first picked player in any TAC team in 2012. How can a side who goes undefeated in the Under 16 Championships in 2010 against all the other TAC Under 16 sides get belted week in week out in 2011. There has to be an identifiable problem with selection. If Bendigo don't want the bigger zone, not just to have it in case there is a star but to quash others is wrong. They need to put the work in. The token game North just to satisfy the AFL is crap. They have to spend some time and some money and look at what they are missing if they want to maximise the potential of their massive zone zone.

Whaaaaaaaack.........!!!!!!
I like it. Fair call, seen one game this year where they were well and truly beaten at the centre bounce time and time again, yet persisted with the same group in the middle until the end. I believe they call it team balance. They had as much of the ball around the ground yet used it poorly, and then could not regain it. There are too few hard nuts prepared to draw the line in the sand and play 1 on 1 at the stoppages.
The thing about the 100klm Football Raduis of Bendigo (100FRB) is that I don't believe that the in house coaching faculty has enough faith in the regional managers. Steinberg was the perfect example last year. They still had little idea after the interleague game where he kicked 7, it took a call from an Imps member to get these guys to even look at him. Once again, outside the 100FRB.
We'll wait and see, the new facility should be good in Bendigo next year, the functionality of the coaching faculty will have to improve though. If they appoint people in the regional areas to work with the players in that area, then maybe the regional managers should have a greater input into their game performance reviews and selection process as well.
Sunraysia is pretty close to the SANFL, maybe that is the way to go for the overachievers. In regards to Mee, he's set the world on fire in fishbowl of the Sunraysia League, he just needs to convert that into at least smoke in the TAC Cup. He'll be better for the games he does play this year going into next year. Then again, more game time would help his cause........100FRB?????......and Fedex.....

 

[Footyking123]

What is the latest on young Jake's injury BTW hope all is OK and he comes back 100%.Saw him play Basketball a fair bit over the last few years against my son and he is certainly a talented athlete ,it was a shame to see him suffer such a horrific injury so early in his career.

Stringers leg is healing well. I live in Bendigo and he is walking around nicely and there is even rumors of him getting back in for the last round or so but I don't reckon he would risk it at all.

 

[Schnail73]

As I said a couple of days ago, Wines and Valentine back from VC duties, 2 big ins. Interesting to see how they go without Kerridge. Great to see Knox back in, should provide a target at full forward. Send the pockets up the ground and give him some room, he marks well and can kick a goal.
It'll be a day for LONG direct kicking, if they turn the ball over with the short crap, they'll be lynched by the Bushies. Crowley needs to stand up at CHF, clunk some marks. He got good height and body size, needs to insert that into some contested marking situations, even if he doesn't take them bring the ball to the deck and let the runners clean up. On the bench, Mee and Christodoulou should be able to bring some more speed, Mee with his tackling and hard contested situations would go well in the middle on some occasions. Get him flusheterd and watch the bodies fly. Flack and Flood use the ball well when running through the lines. Ngawati is a key, if he brings the game he produced against the Chargers 2 weeks ago, that'll go a long way to getting close to the points. Foreman is too good a posession gatherer to be in a back pocket. Half back flank is where I'd like to see him, sending the ball to Crowley at CHF.
Am I getting overexcited? Surely there is some pride in these blokes and club, just be accountable for your opponent. It's gotta turn around some time......don't it?

 

[rioli brownlow]

As I said a couple of days ago, Wines and Valentine back from VC duties, 2 big ins. Interesting to see how they go without Kerridge. Great to see Knox back in, should provide a target at full forward. Send the pockets up the ground and give him some room, he marks well and can kick a goal.
It'll be a day for LONG direct kicking, if they turn the ball over with the short crap, they'll be lynched by the Bushies. Crowley needs to stand up at CHF, clunk some marks. He got good height and body size, needs to insert that into some contested marking situations, even if he doesn't take them bring the ball to the deck and let the runners clean up. On the bench, Mee and Christodoulou should be able to bring some more speed, Mee with his tackling and hard contested situations would go well in the middle on some occasions. Get him flusheterd and watch the bodies fly. Flack and Flood use the ball well when running through the lines. Ngawati is a key, if he brings the game he produced against the Chargers 2 weeks ago, that'll go a long way to getting close to the points. Foreman is too good a posession gatherer to be in a back pocket. Half back flank is where I'd like to see him, sending the ball to Crowley at CHF.
Am I getting overexcited? Surely there is some pride in these blokes and club, just be accountable for your opponent. It's gotta turn around some time......don't it?

just wondering how number 4 for the pioneers went yesterday? greg hay!!

 

[roysieboy]

As I said a couple of days ago, Wines and Valentine back from VC duties, 2 big ins. Interesting to see how they go without Kerridge. Great to see Knox back in, should provide a target at full forward. Send the pockets up the ground and give him some room, he marks well and can kick a goal.
It'll be a day for LONG direct kicking, if they turn the ball over with the short crap, they'll be lynched by the Bushies. Crowley needs to stand up at CHF, clunk some marks. He got good height and body size, needs to insert that into some contested marking situations, even if he doesn't take them bring the ball to the deck and let the runners clean up. On the bench, Mee and Christodoulou should be able to bring some more speed, Mee with his tackling and hard contested situations would go well in the middle on some occasions. Get him flusheterd and watch the bodies fly. Flack and Flood use the ball well when running through the lines. Ngawati is a key, if he brings the game he produced against the Chargers 2 weeks ago, that'll go a long way to getting close to the points. Foreman is too good a posession gatherer to be in a back pocket. Half back flank is where I'd like to see him, sending the ball to Crowley at CHF.
Am I getting overexcited? Surely there is some pride in these blokes and club, just be accountable for your opponent. It's gotta turn around some time......don't it?

Get excited when they get someone that can coach and someone with half a brain that moves the boys around when they getting flogged,supposed to be teaching them all aspects of the game,will turn around when someone else takes the reigns but untill then dont hold your breath,

 

[Schnail73]

Get excited when they get someone that can coach and someone with half a brain that moves the boys around when they getting flogged,supposed to be teaching them all aspects of the game,will turn around when someone else takes the reigns but untill then dont hold your breath,

For bad kicking (Pioneers had 1 more scoring shot) and wasted opportunities, the pioneers may have had their second win since the season of 2009......
Agree with the coaching side of things, they seem to hang their hats on the 1 or 2 prospects, the others wear the pain of directionless footy.....
Who would put their hand up to coach this side if the opportunity arose?
With the talent in the BFL, surely AFL Victoria would target a medium/high profile ex-player, or at the least a former country gun, along the lines of a Tony Hickey (Sunraysia), Robbie Walker (O&MFL), just to name some quick examples. The prospective coach would have to have had success at a senior level in country Vic at the least. The facilities next year will be impressive at the Epsom-Huntly ground, that's another sweetener for any prospective coach. Also, the current group of 16-17 year olds (as a group) look impressive. They did go undefeated in last years U/16 carnival and lost only 1 game this year.
C'mon, lets hear some genuine names of persons in the area (or outside of it) and reasons why this person should be given the opportunity to help display what's right with the Bendigo Pioneers.
I'm waiting.....???

 

[Vanderhum]

For bad kicking (Pioneers had 1 more scoring shot) and wasted opportunities, the pioneers may have had their second win since the season of 2009......
Agree with the coaching side of things, they seem to hang their hats on the 1 or 2 prospects, the others wear the pain of directionless footy.....
Who would put their hand up to coach this side if the opportunity arose?
With the talent in the BFL, surely AFL Victoria would target a medium/high profile ex-player, or at the least a former country gun, along the lines of a Tony Hickey (Sunraysia), Robbie Walker (O&MFL), just to name some quick examples. The prospective coach would have to have had success at a senior level in country Vic at the least. The facilities next year will be impressive at the Epsom-Huntly ground, that's another sweetener for any prospective coach. Also, the current group of 16-17 year olds (as a group) look impressive. They did go undefeated in last years U/16 carnival and lost only 1 game this year.
C'mon, lets hear some genuine names of persons in the area (or outside of it) and reasons why this person should be given the opportunity to help display what's right with the Bendigo Pioneers.
I'm waiting.....???

Keep Waiting Schail, you have nominated two of the best and highly respected regional footy players / rep coaches in the past 20 years, but that wont get them the gig (not that they would be asked) But the role needs to be filled be someone of AFL profile. The Pioneers need to be turned into a club, at the moment they play as a rep side. This should be the first marker for the new coach. This will take some work and this thread, whilst it has been critical, there is some very positive input from a lot of well meaning Pioneers supporters hoping the can improve!!!

 

[Footyking123]

For bad kicking (Pioneers had 1 more scoring shot) and wasted opportunities, the pioneers may have had their second win since the season of 2009......
Agree with the coaching side of things, they seem to hang their hats on the 1 or 2 prospects, the others wear the pain of directionless footy.....
Who would put their hand up to coach this side if the opportunity arose?
With the talent in the BFL, surely AFL Victoria would target a medium/high profile ex-player, or at the least a former country gun, along the lines of a Tony Hickey (Sunraysia), Robbie Walker (O&MFL), just to name some quick examples. The prospective coach would have to have had success at a senior level in country Vic at the least. The facilities next year will be impressive at the Epsom-Huntly ground, that's another sweetener for any prospective coach. Also, the current group of 16-17 year olds (as a group) look impressive. They did go undefeated in last years U/16 carnival and lost only 1 game this year.
C'mon, lets hear some genuine names of persons in the area (or outside of it) and reasons why this person should be given the opportunity to help display what's right with the Bendigo Pioneers.
I'm waiting.....???

Who would u say where the best players from the under 16 carnival this year from Bendigo?

 

[Schnail73]

Breaking news.....crikey....the Pioneers won a game....and against quality opposition....maybe this is the light at the end of that long, long tunnel....
Well done boys...

 

[Footyking123]

yeah they won against Calder and schnail once again who were the better under 16 players for Pioneers this year.

Kerrige had a good game, as did Ngawati. Wines again was solid and Mee also played ok.

 

[Schnail73]

yeah they won against Calder and schnail once again who were the better under 16 players for Pioneers this year.

Kerrige had a good game, as did Ngawati. Wines again was solid and Mee also played ok.

Ollie Wines, Sam Heavyside and Nick Mee were the best 16 year olds in the game for Bendigo, however the most impressive aspect of the win was the accountability of each player for his opponent and space. Plenty of times the Cannons won possession, only to be harrassed or de-possessed of the ball by the Bendigo outfit. Mee's tackling, Wines and Heavysides in and under work, and Koe Ngawati, well he was the most influential player on the ground. I would have thought the Bendigo coaching staff will get footage of his game and show all how to have an impact with second and third efforts....
Braydon Knox was excellent at full forward, has sound hands above his head and a good kick for goal. The long target inside 50 worked well for the Pioneers.
I thought Kerridge struggled both in the midfield and forward, swapping with Wines. He's had a pretty big month with Vic Country duties, however he still needs to work on gathering cleanly the ball beneath his knees at pace under pressure. It would have been satisfying for him to lead this group to their first win for 12 months. Expect a big game from him next week...
The rotations still perplex me though. Flack had a purple patch of about 4 minutes in the third quater, and was then taken from the ground. Let them run themselves ragged, then give the a spell. He kicked a goal in that period and was losing his marker with ease. Could be just a stop watch thing though......
I know the thread is 'What's wrong with the Bendigo Pioneers', but they really deserved this win against the second ranked team this year.
Yesterday whats right with the Bendigo Pioneers (to a certain extent) was displayed.

 

[Vanderhum]

Ollie Wines, Sam Heavyside and Nick Mee were the best 16 year olds in the game for Bendigo, however the most impressive aspect of the win was the accountability of each player for his opponent and space. Plenty of times the Cannons won possession, only to be harrassed or de-possessed of the ball by the Bendigo outfit. Mee's tackling, Wines and Heavysides in and under work, and Koe Ngawati, well he was the most influential player on the ground. I would have thought the Bendigo coaching staff will get footage of his game and show all how to have an impact with second and third efforts....
Braydon Knox was excellent at full forward, has sound hands above his head and a good kick for goal. The long target inside 50 worked well for the Pioneers.
I thought Kerridge struggled both in the midfield and forward, swapping with Wines. He's had a pretty big month with Vic Country duties, however he still needs to work on gathering cleanly the ball beneath his knees at pace under pressure. It would have been satisfying for him to lead this group to their first win for 12 months. Expect a big game from him next week...
The rotations still perplex me though. Flack had a purple patch of about 4 minutes in the third quater, and was then taken from the ground. Let them run themselves ragged, then give the a spell. He kicked a goal in that period and was losing his marker with ease. Could be just a stop watch thing though......
I know the thread is 'What's wrong with the Bendigo Pioneers', but they really deserved this win against the second ranked team this year.
Yesterday whats right with the Bendigo Pioneers (to a certain extent) was displayed.

Hey Schail, we sell all sorts of pie, we got strawberry pie, we got apple pie, we even got pecan pie, but today's special is the old favourite Humble Pie, now you want yours served with cream or custard. You gotta chew that parson's nose. (great win )

 

[Final 8]

I thought Kerridge struggled both in the midfield and forward, swapping with Wines. He's had a pretty big month with Vic Country duties, however he still needs to work on gathering cleanly the ball beneath his knees at pace under pressure.

Kerridge big month with Vic Country???? Only played 1 game against SA otherwise has been with Pioneers all games.

 

[Footyking123]

Kerrige still managed to get 20-30 possitions just didn't use them that well

 

[Schnail73]

Kerrige still managed to get 20-30 possitions just didn't use them that well

My oath he didn't use them well, he spent more time fumbling around in packs. He just isn't clean below his knees. Yep, 1 game for Vic country, sorta like tongue in check stuff hey.......might be worn down by the weight of expectation. I will still expect he'll be picked up in the draft though. He may have been struggling with the fact that his teammates around him were actually beating the opposition 1 on 1.
As for the humble pie, tasted a little off, past the useby date I believe...

 

[Footyking123]

Yeah Kerrige has so much pressure on him with the expection of his school mates and everyone around the club.

 

[footyman]

Yeah Kerrige has so much pressure on him with the expection of his school mates and everyone around the club.

That's half the problem, and it's very unhealthy for Kerridge and for the team.

What I've seen this year has been a shadow of what he looked capable of last year.

 

[Schnail73]

That's half the problem, and it's very unhealthy for Kerridge and for the team.

What I've seen this year has been a shadow of what he looked capable of last year.

Kerridge has a very good football brain. He knows where to run and when, uses the ball very well, is an excellent set shot and has fantastic hands above his head in contests.

He made some mistakes on the weekend that were elementary, flew for marks he shouldn't have (was ultimately outmarked), corralled in areas he should have avoided, and failed to use some obvious options around him when he was in trouble. There was little to no bench time and no messages out to him about the mistakes. The unhealthy part of this is there was little to no direction given to him during the game.

This is not a bashing session, he is a fantastic prospect with great skills and level head, BUT he cannot be expected to carry this side week in/out. He looked tired mentally and physically to me on Saturday. He's still capable of last years form, maybe he can now carry a bit more confidence in his teammates into the next game. They were good.......

 

[Schnail73]

Who would u say where the best players from the under 16 carnival this year from Bendigo?

Couldn't tell you Footyking, wasn't there. However, by the number of Bendigo players asked to try out for the U/16 Vic Country squad, the future looks pretty bright for the pioneers. I believe there were about 7 or 8 asked to front up for training, with Jordan Mangan and Isiah Miller making the cut. Jacob Chisari just missed out, he's playing senior footy in Sunraysia in a successful team and doing well. Chisari would get his hands on the ball 25 - 30 times during a senior game, more than enough for a 15 year old.
Who are the ones to watch Footyking123...?

 

[footyman]

he cannot be expected to carry this side week in/out.

Agree with all you have written about him, but especially agree with the above. They do ask a lot of him - midfield or forward - and he hardly has a rest. He's the go to man on the field, and quite rightly you say he carries the team.

What ends up happening is he develops bad habits. The "elementary mistakes" are shortcuts - perhaps because he's too buggered to do things properly.

He walks up and down the corridor at times - and still gets the ball. At other times he is not in the best position but his teammates look for him because of who he is.

The coaching structure there really defies belief, it's that far behind any other club in this competition and it's quite bizarre that AFL Victoria have failed to step in and force some changes.

 

[Humble Minion]

May have been handy for him to have Stringer on the field this year, just to take some of the heat and spread the load a bit, but obviously that wasn't to be...

 

[rioli brownlow]

Kerrige still managed to get 20-30 possitions just didn't use them that well

why isn't anyone mentioning the great job the pioneers defensive unit did on saturday? HAY( kept tac cup leading goalkicker burgess to 1 goal) valentine, huntly. all did a fantastic job!

 

[Schnail73]

Agree with all you have written about him, but especially agree with the above. They do ask a lot of him - midfield or forward - and he hardly has a rest. He's the go to man on the field, and quite rightly you say he carries the team.

What ends up happening is he develops bad habits. The "elementary mistakes" are shortcuts - perhaps because he's too buggered to do things properly.

He walks up and down the corridor at times - and still gets the ball. At other times he is not in the best position but his teammates look for him because of who he is.

The coaching structure there really defies belief, it's that far behind any other club in this competition and it's quite bizarre that AFL Victoria have failed to step in and force some changes.

Last year he struggled with OP, this year he has struggled with trying to do everything for the side. Good players bring the team members together. One thing I hope he learns from the weekend is that there are ballwinners other than himself in that side. Heavyside, Wines, Ngawati, Mee, Donahue can get the ball in their own right, Wines and S. Heavyside in particular in and around traffic. For the second half of the year, I would hope the staff there instruct Kerridge to run and recieve, showcase his delivery and long kicking, and thus put the acid on the lesser lights to dispose of the ball in tight, under pressure. On the weekend the majority of their goals came from delivery outside the 70 - 80 meter mark. Mee's long kicking, pressure outside the 50 arc, winning the ball in the middle/CHF areas. Granted, the Cannons rested some of their Vic rep/senior players, but the method or game plan should not change. Chase, close down space and harrass the ball carrier is simple, and it worked. The backline was fantastic, and it had something to do with the midfield retaining the ball once it came out of the backline and sending it forward. They had confidence in their midfield and forwards. The delivery from Foreman, Gilbert, Valentine, McPhee was good because of the confidence in the players up the ground, no second thought was given when the decision to go was made, and that gave them the time to settle.

Stringers injury closed the door in his playing football this year, but he's still involved. Great to see his input at the huddles during the breaks, giving guidence to the guys playing the game. Take heart that we'll see him next year in the Pioneer colors, a different player to Sam, no less or more a player, I think he brings the lesser lights into the game more with his run and vision.

 

[Schnail73]

why isn't anyone mentioning the great job the pioneers defensive unit did on saturday? HAY( kept tac cup leading goalkicker burgess to 1 goal) valentine, huntly. all did a fantastic job!

Yep, great job by the defensive unit, not only did they shut down the forward line, but they delivered up the ground well, didn't panic when under pressure, they functioned well as a group and supported each other at the contests.

 

[Footyking123]

Couldn't tell you Footyking, wasn't there. However, by the number of Bendigo players asked to try out for the U/16 Vic Country squad, the future looks pretty bright for the pioneers. I believe there were about 7 or 8 asked to front up for training, with Jordan Mangan and Isiah Miller making the cut. Jacob Chisari just missed out, he's playing senior footy in Sunraysia in a successful team and doing well. Chisari would get his hands on the ball 25 - 30 times during a senior game, more than enough for a 15 year old.
Who are the ones to watch Footyking123...?

I would say Isaiah Miller with his run off the half back line and Jono Lanlon who runs himslef into the ground every week are the main two to watch. Jordan Mangan is also very versitle player but he might be lost to basketball being in the Vic Country under 18 team as well. Nathan Dyson has a very good leap and good hands and like u mentioned Jacob Chisari he gets a lot of the ball but has had a few injuries so he couldn't perform at his best in the carnival ect.