What's wrong with the Bendigo Pioneers?

[Bruiser1969]

I can't and won't speak badly of Collins because he is a very dedicated individual but I know he was having problems with Clarke himself so to throw a spot on the list away for Clarke was a disappointment. But FILO missed a testing day at Pioneers to drink piss in Melbourne and was caught out amongst other things him going was a good move!

That is quite interesting yarra, i dont know the boys as he is not one of my sons close friends but it sounds like the coach has done the right thing.

Sounds like clarke thought he was training rocky balboa and apollo creed lol. Disappointing but i suppose liberating for the coaching staff at the pioneers you posting this... I feel for collins and filo, having friends and relatives like those obviously posting must be hard. every child needs a positive influence in their lives. they will now have a chip on their shoulder with everything as they go through life due to how they were shown to react to disappoinment.

 

[Schnail73]

That is quite interesting yarra, i dont know the boys as he is not one of my sons close friends but it sounds like the coach has done the right thing.

Sounds like clarke thought he was training rocky balboa and apollo creed lol. Disappointing but i suppose liberating for the coaching staff at the pioneers you posting this... I feel for collins and filo, having friends and relatives like those obviously posting must be hard. every child needs a positive influence in their lives. they will now have a chip on their shoulder with everything as they go through life due to how they were shown to react to disappoinment.

It wont be the last we hear of these two, both Collins and Filo are highly regarded footballers, they will still attract attention playing local football and maybe get a call up to a VFL club in the not too distant future. I just hope they learn from this years episodes with the Pioneers. I still reckon the biggest loss for the Pioneers was Knox, he has very clean hands in the air and seems to take marks when out of position in contested situations.

 

[Yarra Terminator]

It wont be the last we hear of these two, both Collins and Filo are highly regarded footballers, they will still attract attention playing local football and maybe get a call up to a VFL club in the not too distant future. I just hope they learn from this years episodes with the Pioneers. I still reckon the biggest loss for the Pioneers was Knox, he has very clean hands in the air and seems to take marks when out of position in contested situations.

Knox has talent but he make Brendan Favola look like superman in regards to work rate! So lazy! No second efforts! If he learns to work harder in games which he may playing seniors cos his team mates won't put up with the 1 effort rubbish he could be a real find for some club!

 

[Yarra Terminator]

It wont be the last we hear of these two, both Collins and Filo are highly regarded footballers, they will still attract attention playing local football and maybe get a call up to a VFL club in the not too distant future. I just hope they learn from this years episodes with the Pioneers. I still reckon the biggest loss for the Pioneers was Knox, he has very clean hands in the air and seems to take marks when out of position in contested situations.

Collins certainly has the dedication and ability to play at a higher level like VFL, I personally don't think FILO does and he is generally to busy getting blind with his mates! He wouldn't choose footy over his lifestyle with the boys! Sad but true!

 

[bobb 77]

I know first hand that every player that trained with him in 2011 struggle late in the season due to his outdated and uneducated methods! they struggled to train properly at Pioneers training and run out games due to high levels of fatigue and soreness! I am very qualified in this area as a member of the industry for 12 years I know about it. I'm a level 2 S&C coach. I'm not someone who is just guessing! CLARKE OUT is best thing pioneers have done in 2012! Well Done!

Alright then mate if ya that confident that the players were struggling late in the season well start naming players mate? Now who was the person that got Sam Kerridge drafted to the crows? What did the pioneers do to help him? Did the fitness coach help him with his fitness to get him where he is now? Cause I can tell you now that not one person helped Sam as much as what Darren Clarke did? If the pioneers were that proffesional they would of helped him out in any way to get drafted! Sounds like you been close to the pioneers mate! If you got that much experience about S&C why didn't you get off ya arse and help him! All for yaself and not others mate

 

[bobb 77]

Collins certainly has the dedication and ability to play at a higher level like VFL, I personally don't think FILO does and he is generally to busy getting blind with his mates! He wouldn't choose footy over his lifestyle with the boys! Sad but true!

Mate do you no how much time these 2 boys put into training? These boys train 4 to 5 nights a week! And the reason they do this is to get the best out of themselves! So your trying to tell me that you carnt have a life with ya friends? You carnt be all the same yarra! Collins is a very dedicated man and will do anything to get on the big stage! Filo trains his gut out with Collins and does what he does on the weekend? Its not as if he drinks every night ya goose! If you think filo is bad havin a night out with the boys, what about the listed players now? Some boys not naming who have been caught smoking at partys? Is that a good look for the pionneers? These 2 boys can do what they want cause there not there mate? Do you understand where these 2 boys have come
From with family? Both moving out of home, moving away from family/friends.I think ya need to have a good hard look at yaself mate before ya start putting things on this ya just making up to make these boys look bad

 

[bobb 77]

That is quite interesting yarra, i dont know the boys as he is not one of my sons close friends but it sounds like the coach has done the right thing.

Sounds like clarke thought he was training rocky balboa and apollo creed lol. Disappointing but i suppose liberating for the coaching staff at the pioneers you posting this... I feel for collins and filo, having friends and relatives like those obviously posting must be hard. every child needs a positive influence in their lives. they will now have a chip on their shoulder with everything as they go through life due to how they were shown to react to disappoinment.

Gee Sounds like he training rocky balboa a? Where did Sam Kerridge get to? How did jake stringer recover from a broken leg? Mate you got no idea about the whole thing! Clarkes already got pioneers players wanting to go back cause there unfit? How would the coach feel if a player thinks there unfit?
Mate why will these boys walk around with a chip on there shoulder? Because they stuck up for there mates? Isn't that what mates/friends are for?You would be one of those parents that knows everything? Honestly mate have think about it all before ya post that!

 

[Magpie 1970]

Yer bruiser look the reason I am so close to this is because I think we are all sick and tied the way these people can treat kids! I can give you that much incormation right now about the whole Clarke thing and you'll
Be blown away by it! I'm gunna bring up one point that you don't no about! Now this is not talking out of school at all, one of the current pioneer listed players was training with Clarke before the season had started! Now after the 2 boys that got cut (Collins,FILO) this particular boy was told by a pioneers coach not naming who at SCHOOL that if he was to attend clarkes training or even go out there he would be cut from the side! Now how would you feel as a parent if the coach told your son that? If I recall that is blackmailing! And from then on the rest of the players were told the exact same thing! If you dont no already when the whole clarke group was called in by the coach, i believe one of the players went and bought his parent over in case things got heated! Now to say that these kids spoke out of school is wrong! Now I can tell you now that this problem isn't going away! This is only just and I can assure you now something will happen! What everyone has been hearing is wrong! Like I said the truth is finally comming out

BLACKMAIL......YOUNG BURGESS HAS BEEN FORCED TO DRIVE FROM ECHUCA EACH DAY TO ATTEND SCHOOL AT BENDIGO HIGH SCHOOL....PARENTS ARE FURIOUS. ONE. COST!!!! TWO. THE PRESSURE IT HAS PUT ON HIS STUDIES TO TRY TO KEEP UP.
ONCE AGAIN, I REFER YOU BACK TO THE TAC WEBSITE....PLAYER SUPPORTS FOUR MENTAL HEALTH ICONS.....THAT'S IT...

 

[Magpie 1970]

Gee, sounds like your pretty close to it all. The thing I cannot understand is if these players are so highly regarded (and they are), what would have possessed the coach/coaching staff to say thanks but no thanks. Something said out of school perhaps, questioned the methods or regime of the Pioneers, dunno, what bloody well happened. I stand corrected in regards to your version of the whole incident, maybe he/they just didnt like them or what they said or how they said it. They would be considerably better with the likes of Collins/Filo/Knox/Ngawati/Hird and others I may have missed, but they are not there, that chapter has concluded, move on.
Great to see Comanche Walls put up for a game with the Bendigo Gold, Golden Square has been and will continue to be one of the best football nurseries in the country. I hope he gets a crack at it....

ONCE AGAIN, THESE TWO PLAYERS INPARTICULAR HAVE BEEN USED AS PAWNS ON A CHESS BOARD, SHOWN AS AN EXAMPLE TO OTHERS....FILO'S GRANDFATHER, WHO IS A BFL TRIBUNERAL PANELIST FOR THE LAST 6 YEARS, WAS WITNESS TO THE "PLAYERS CHAT" ON THE FIELD AND LISTENED TO THE FULL DISCUSSIONS HELD. ALL THAT WAS SAID ON THIS NIGHT IN MENTION WAS THAT THE COACHING STAFF WERE CONCERNED ABOUT WHAT THE PLAYERS WERE DOING AND THE "APPARENT" INJURIES OCCURING. FILO AND JORDAN WHERE THE ONLY ONES THAT PIPED UP AND SAID THAT HE ENJOYS TRAINING OUT THERE WITH CLARKEY AND ASKED IF THE COACH WOULD COME OUT AND SEE WHAT THEY DO. NEXT MORNING , BOTH KIDS SACKED FOR BEING DISRESPECTUL TO THE COACH. THAT IS IT....

 

[Magpie 1970]

YOU WOULD RECKON THE NEW COACH WOULD DO HIS HOMEWORK BEFORE HE TOOK ON THE BIG ROLE. Brian Walsh, apparently met the pioneers at the indoor pool, Walshy enquired about the boys who were all wearing sun glasses in an indoor stadium, he thought that it was a bit slack…………….he didn’t know he was talking to David Newitt the coach, Newitt said “what would you know anyway”

Brian answered I know a little bit as I coached the Pioneers for 15 years and 25 players were drafted under my control, he then said I wonder what your record will be like when you leave...........

 

[Magpie 1970]

yarra terminator you have made some pretty interesting statements there! There you have stated " clarke was a negitive influence on the group as a hole"? Now how do you no that was the case? Did you ever witness the trainings that these boys had with clarke? If he was so negitive to the group why did the boys keep turning up and train with him? You have also stated that clarke ruined players in 2011? Now i'd like you to name 2 or more players that he injured? One of the reason he didn't collaborate with the staff was because the staff didn't have anytime for him! All they did was go around telling pple not to train with him as they thought he didnt no what he was doing and of course the big one was the boys had a better relationship with him and not the staff so what does that come down too? Jelousy! Iv had a read of this information and i'm telling you now from a real close source that alot of this is incorrect information! I think it's time that pple should start knowing the truth of the whole situation not just what people think!

totally incorrect information, last years' coach was a huge fan and referred alot of players that needed the extra fitness training to clarkey. Stringer would not be doing what he is doing now without clarkey's help. He has been a huge mentor to alot of kids and impacted on alot of lives....like anything, everyone is different and has their likes and dislikes.

 

[Schnail73]

Geez, nothing like a bye for the Pioneers to bring out the best in people and their opinions of one another.
Whatever is discussed on the thread, it's not gonna change the fact that the Pioneers have improved this year under Dave Newett. It may be the fact that there are a more even spread of players on the ground, it might be the fact that the other TAC teams have come back a little, it might be the direction the coach is taking their playing style, it might be the work Clarkey did with some of the players preseason and last year.......
Ultimately, we are at round 5 with both Stringer and Wines to come back in, the bench to be cut to 4 and coming up against perennial finalists the Northern Nights this weekend. Lets try to put aside what happened 5 - 10 years ago and get behind this Bendigo team thats finally showing something more than whats been served up over the past few years....
I wonder if this crap goes on at the Geelong Falcons or Oakleigh Chargers........

 

[Chris25]

I've deleted a couple of posts in this thread.

There will always be talk of players and how much effort they put in. But there is a line there, and I think it was stepped over when it came to talk about a coach and any apparent personal issues. Also no need to insult other posters.

Just remember this thread isn't for trolling Bendigo.

 

[Yarra Terminator]

Geez, nothing like a bye for the Pioneers to bring out the best in people and their opinions of one another.
Whatever is discussed on the thread, it's not gonna change the fact that the Pioneers have improved this year under Dave Newett. It may be the fact that there are a more even spread of players on the ground, it might be the fact that the other TAC teams have come back a little, it might be the direction the coach is taking their playing style, it might be the work Clarkey did with some of the players preseason and last year.......
Ultimately, we are at round 5 with both Stringer and Wines to come back in, the bench to be cut to 4 and coming up against perennial finalists the Northern Nights this weekend. Lets try to put aside what happened 5 - 10 years ago and get behind this Bendigo team thats finally showing something more than whats been served up over the past few years....
I wonder if this crap goes on at the Geelong Falcons or Oakleigh Chargers........

Well Said!!

 

[Yarra Terminator]

Gee Sounds like he training rocky balboa a? Where did Sam Kerridge get to? How did jake stringer recover from a broken leg? Mate you got no idea about the whole thing! Clarkes already got pioneers players wanting to go back cause there unfit? How would the coach feel if a player thinks there unfit?
Mate why will these boys walk around with a chip on there shoulder? Because they stuck up for there mates? Isn't that what mates/friends are for?You would be one of those parents that knows everything? Honestly mate have think about it all before ya post that!

ok i will answer your points individually:

Kerridge: AIS player who had a very specify program given to him from them to prepare from Draft Camp. He did do quite a bit of it with Clarke because Clarke was recommended by Ellis. But Clarke did design the program! he can take NO credit.

Stringer: Same story AIS player, probably did a little more than he was supposed to do on it under AIS advice with Clarke and prolonged his rehab. I know the medical staff at Pioneers were pulling their hair out over Clarks involvement but it was allowed by Ellis so it continued when it probably shouldnt have! Stringer is happily complying with David now and not using Clarke. if he felt so strongly that Clarke was the difference why didnt he stand up with Filo and Collins?

What sort of Parent I am: Im not a parent of any pioneers players. Never have been. Im a QUALIFIED and EXPERIENCE strength and conditioning coach, i have 4 world titles at powerlifting and have worked with athletes from many sports including AFL/VFL, TAC CUP, NFL, Powerlifting, Cycling, Rowing, Basketball etc.

I do think before I post. I post so parents know the truth and that the Pioneers and their program can stop being put down by the likes of YOU. This year the program has made some huge leaps forward thanks to the management, AFLVic, Coaching Staff, Medical Team and the appointment of David. Thanks everyone for reading.

 

[Magpie 1970]

ok i will answer your points individually:

Kerridge: AIS player who had a very specify program given to him from them to prepare from Draft Camp. He did do quite a bit of it with Clarke because Clarke was recommended by Ellis. But Clarke did design the program! he can take NO credit.

Stringer: Same story AIS player, probably did a little more than he was supposed to do on it under AIS advice with Clarke and prolonged his rehab. I know the medical staff at Pioneers were pulling their hair out over Clarks involvement but it was allowed by Ellis so it continued when it probably shouldnt have! Stringer is happily complying with David now and not using Clarke. if he felt so strongly that Clarke was the difference why didnt he stand up with Filo and Collins?

What sort of Parent I am: Im not a parent of any pioneers players. Never have been. Im a QUALIFIED and EXPERIENCE strength and conditioning coach, i have 4 world titles at powerlifting and have worked with athletes from many sports including AFL/VFL, TAC CUP, NFL, Powerlifting, Cycling, Rowing, Basketball etc.

I do think before I post. I post so parents know the truth and that the Pioneers and their program can stop being put down by the likes of YOU. This year the program has made some huge leaps forward thanks to the management, AFLVic, Coaching Staff, Medical Team and the appointment of David. Thanks everyone for reading.

stringer was spoken to by the coach individually, prior to the chat and told to shut his mouth and agree with what the coaches were saying .........pre-warned. That came straight from the coaches mouth unfortunately...

 

[Yarra Terminator]

stringer was spoken to by the coach individually, prior to the chat and told to shut his mouth and agree with what the coaches were saying .........pre-warned. That came straight from the coaches mouth unfortunately...

And if that is the case he did it! He respected the coach unlike the players who aren't there! SIMPLE!

 

[bobb 77]

You never answered me question Yarra? If you are that good why didn't you help stringer? Why did ellis get Clarke and not you seen you have all the qualifcations and was the S&C last year as well as getting paid? The question is why does a parent go out of his way to help a kid with a broken leg and a big future ahead of him? Obviously says something that Ellis thinks Clarkes a better trainer?
Do you no the funny thing is, 6 months after stringer broke his leg they both went to stringers doctor in Melbourne, now in the words of the doctor "That is the best recoverd
Leg I have seen in a long Time". It was all due to Clarkes training...

How do you no the truth Yarra were there when the coach bought Clarkes group in? We're you there the whole time things got a bit iffy with Clarke and coaching panel? Or did you get the sack early on in the year and just going on what the pioneers are telling everyone else

 

[Bruiser1969]

You never answered me question Yarra? If you are that good why didn't you help stringer? Why did ellis get Clarke and not you seen you have all the qualifcations and was the S&C last year as well as getting paid? The question is why does a parent go out of his way to help a kid with a broken leg and a big future ahead of him? Obviously says something that Ellis thinks Clarkes a better trainer?
Do you no the funny thing is, 6 months after stringer broke his leg they both went to stringers doctor in Melbourne, now in the words of the doctor "That is the best recoverd
Leg I have seen in a long Time". It was all due to Clarkes training...

How do you no the truth Yarra were there when the coach bought Clarkes group in? We're you there the whole time things got a bit iffy with Clarke and coaching panel? Or did you get the sack early on in the year and just going on what the pioneers are telling everyone else

Why dont you just leave it alone and let the new coach do what he needs to do. If my son gets an invite again for next season i hope to god you are not around. Such a negative person, i feel sorry for you and your son/relative!

 

[bobb 77]

Why dont you just leave it alone and let the new coach do what he needs to do. If my son gets an invite again for next season i hope to god you are not around. Such a negative person, i feel sorry for you and your son/relative!

What so if your son goes to another mates house and the pioneers tell him that if you go there again you'll be cut from the side? Gee what kind of father are you to not stick up for your son...mate how am I a negative person! None of this would of happened if the pioneers handled it a proffesional way (which they should anyway) than a childish way
I can promise you now that I had no son or relative in that squad so I'm not sure what yr on about bruiser

 

[footyman]

Seriously, this is way out of control. Finger pointing and people with grudges getting on here and flinging mud in every direction.

I don't know the inner workings of the Pioneers, I have no idea who this Clarke bloke is either, but the fact is in ANY FOOTY CLUB, regardless of the level, the senior coach lays down the law, sets the agenda and the players are expected to follow.

The difference is at TAC Cup level player loads also need to be monitored. These are 16, 17 or 18 year old kids. Their bodies are developing. Does a TAC Cup club want a kid going out and doing two hours of work on a night they are meant to be doing nothing?

There would be politics at all TAC Cup clubs - you're always going to get unhappy parents or unhappy players. The system takes the kids in, chews them up and spits most of them out.

I think it's sad what's going on here because it's clearly a reflection of what's going on behind the scenes up there. Ellis moving on was a chance for the Pioneers to regenerate after six or seven dismal years, to bring in new processes, practices and try to gain some respect and show everyone that central Victoria can produce a decent team to play in this competition.

Might be time for the players or parents or friends with grudges to move on.

 

[Schnail73]

Seriously, this is way out of control. Finger pointing and people with grudges getting on here and flinging mud in every direction.

I don't know the inner workings of the Pioneers, I have no idea who this Clarke bloke is either, but the fact is in ANY FOOTY CLUB, regardless of the level, the senior coach lays down the law, sets the agenda and the players are expected to follow.

The difference is at TAC Cup level player loads also need to be monitored. These are 16, 17 or 18 year old kids. Their bodies are developing. Does a TAC Cup club want a kid going out and doing two hours of work on a night they are meant to be doing nothing?

There would be politics at all TAC Cup clubs - you're always going to get unhappy parents or unhappy players. The system takes the kids in, chews them up and spits most of them out.

I think it's sad what's going on here because it's clearly a reflection of what's going on behind the scenes up there. Ellis moving on was a chance for the Pioneers to regenerate after six or seven dismal years, to bring in new processes, practices and try to gain some respect and show everyone that central Victoria can produce a decent team to play in this competition.

Might be time for the players or parents or friends with grudges to move on.

Well said footyman, with a few more wins and a clearly improved game plan, I think the new coaching staff and direction wil be vindicated.....

 

[bobb 77]

Yer that's right footyman these are some young lads trying to play the best/be the best that they can be in TAC level! but the thing is these boys don't sign any contacts that involves money to say that they have to do as they say! If that was the case and all these boys had contracts I can assure you we wouldn't be talking about this situation as we speak! Now I can assure you that if you ask everyone of those kids at the pioneers what is there dream! I bet you every 90% would say they would want to play AFL which is an achievable goal! Isnt that what TAC cup level is about? About preparing these young bodys for AFL? But to be only training 2 nights a week at a TAC level, well you might as well kiss ya big time footy out the window...if your at an AFL level your training 4 to 5 days a week! Yes it's there job but to to that 2 hours on off it makes a hell of a difference

Now this might make ya think, TAC testing before season... Kids from the other teams were running in the 15s, 16s and one kid ran a 16.9 in the beep test! Now the pioneers highest runner was Ollie wines with a 14.8 or round that mark! The lowest runner was a 11.2! Now how does a person run a 16.9 and a kid run 11.2?

 

[footyman]

but the thing is these boys don't sign any contacts that involves money to say that they have to do as they say! If that was the case and all these boys had contracts I can assure you we wouldn't be talking about this situation as we speak!

Hang on a minute, that's a baseless argument. A kid doesn't sign a contract or get paid to go to school so does that mean they don't have to listen to their teachers? No.

I tell you something, there's nothing more annoying than 17 and 18 year old kids who think they know everything. They might not agree with what the adult is telling them, but it's a basic discipline that you follow your instructions from your leader - in this case the coach. They have to trust their coach and the staff at the footy club. If a kid thinks they can walk into an AFL club and run their own race then they are mistaken so they may as well get used to it now!

The Pioneers are clearly trying to do something and if there's someone else on the side working in another direction then the Pioneers have every right to lay down the law. There are high injury rates among 17/18/19 year old kids and not surprisingly AFL clubs have a huge focus on controlled training loads. 2 nights a week at TAC Cup is more than enough, along with a game on Saturday, not to mention potential school footy games midweek and all that.

Yes, I'll give you that the Pioneers had the equal worst beep test results at testing and a number of players in the 12s but when you look it the overall numbers only a 4 or 5 shuttles separate most clubs on average. Calder had a kid in the 10s, so did Dandenong and Eastern. Eastern even had someone in the 9s! I don't think you can make too much of it really.

All the best to the Pioneers on the weekend. Hopefully the focus can return to talking about the footy!!

 

[OuterWing Parrot]

As usual footyman, you are the voice of reason. And especially so with your comments about training loads.