When can we contend again?

[Cobbler]

Who here thinks we can genuinely be a contender next year?

How quick has this fall been? Now it's great to see us playing the youth, but they can't be expected to have major impacts for 2-3 years can they?

Much will depend on drafting, but we lose Pav and I feel Johnson isn't far behind him.

I'm actually thinking the next run at it comes in 4-5 years with an older Fyfe leading the way.

By then GWS and Gold Coast etc will be really up and firing.

I know Ross didn't use the word rebuild, but the quicker he comes to that realisation the better and he may have already come to that conclusion.

 

[Lach72]

2-3

 

[Lach72]

Competitive in 2 max

 

[free at last]

What L72 wrote

 

[TheLoris]

So now we're rebuilding. Ross in contracted until 2020.

Is Bond the guy to rebuild our list? My personal opinion is no. Think some fresh thinking at the club would be a good idea.

 

[dominguez]

If we land Hooker and McCarthy we could easily be in the mix again next year. Pretty much everything that can go wrong has gone wrong this year. Mundy, Bennell, Sandilands and Fyfe would be 4 of our 6 most important players.

 

[dominguez]

So now we're rebuilding. Ross in contracted until 2020.

Is Bond the guy to rebuild our list? My personal opinion is no. Think some fresh thinking at the club would be a good idea.

We're not re-building, Ross said we're re-stumping and re-wiring.

Isn't having early picks the easy part? Pretty much everyone agrees on the top 5 in every draft, it's later on where opinions differ.

 

[Ysaye]

Who here thinks we can genuinely be a contender next year?

How quick has this fall been? Now it's great to see us playing the youth, but they can't be expected to have major impacts for 2-3 years can they?

Much will depend on drafting, but we lose Pav and I feel Johnson isn't far behind him.

I'm actually thinking the next run at it comes in 4-5 years with an older Fyfe leading the way.

By then GWS and Gold Coast etc will be really up and firing.

I know Ross didn't use the word rebuild, but the quicker he comes to that realisation the better and he may have already come to that conclusion.

Might not seem like it, but IMO it may depend on who is our ruckman. We have had a dominant one for years, but that advantage might be retiring at the end of the year. Clarke has not really stood up, but he has in the past, and ruckmen often turn it have it all click together at a later age. The risk is he might not, or he might but he leaves the club first. Who else is behind him?

It is followed by the need for a forward. I am not a McCarthy believer and I think GWS will still want to screw us for whatever we have, and I reckon being out of the system will not be good for him. If there is a sniff with Hogan then we could potentially trade a top 3 pick and/or something else. We lose out second round pick this year as well because we traded it, so our draft this year could be compromised and that is problematic.

Lastly, how are we going to get out of our backline? Part of that is dependent on confidence of the players, but there is also a need to replace and/or add to Johnson and McPharlin (we forget he was probably the second best rebounder, unlikely to get that with A. Pearce) - there maybe some potential left in the shed (Langdon, Morabito) but we haven't seen it yet.

I think once we get back most of the A team and get a bit of confidence, our midfield can match it with most, and there is enough potential sitting in the wings to build a backbone again that will get us in the bottom 4 of the 8.

 

[TheLoris]

Isn't having early picks the easy part? Pretty much everyone agrees on the top 5 in every draft, it's later on where opinions differ.

Of course, but it's more than just that. Time after time we went 'best available' at draft time instead of filling needs, now we have a very unbalanced list with a severe lack of young tall talent. The guy had his list model, which has resulted in the list we have now. Hooker/Cam are potential wins that paper over the cracks & we have neither yet. If I had been responsible for the drafting errors he has, I would fully expect to be sacked.

 

[go_the_dockers]

We badly need 1 or 2 more key defenders to play with Alex Pearce. We also need 1 forward, a forward ruck and a ruck to play with McCarthy , this will take a while.

Apeness could potentially be one, but we will need to find the rest. I think we can get a ruck as a free agent easily, the key forward and the key back will be hard.

 

[Lach72]

Might not seem like it, but IMO it may depend on who is our ruckman. We have had a dominant one for years, but that advantage might be retiring at the end of the year. Clarke has not really stood up, but he has in the past, and ruckmen often turn it have it all click together at a later age. The risk is he might not, or he might but he leaves the club first. Who else is behind him?

It is followed by the need for a forward. I am not a McCarthy believer and I think GWS will still want to screw us for whatever we have, and I reckon being out of the system will not be good for him. If there is a sniff with Hogan then we could potentially trade a top 3 pick and/or something else. We lose out second round pick this year as well because we traded it, so our draft this year could be compromised and that is problematic.

Lastly, how are we going to get out of our backline? Part of that is dependent on confidence of the players, but there is also a need to replace and/or add to Johnson and McPharlin (we forget he was probably the second best rebounder, unlikely to get that with A. Pearce) - there maybe some potential left in the shed (Langdon, Morabito) but we haven't seen it yet.

I think once we get back most of the A team and get a bit of confidence, our midfield can match it with most, and there is enough potential sitting in the wings to build a backbone again that will get us in the bottom 4 of the 8.

In relation to the back line Bootsma's kicking is a real weapon.
I think he has another shot in him

 

[clivenator26]

Depends depends depends.

If Sandi can stick for 2 more years we can contend in 2018...provided we find two key forwards of decent quality and don't lose much in the process.

Lets say we get Cam cheaply and Hooker - we could then perhaps use pick 1-5 and Neale to grab Hogan which you'd think would have us in the mix. However I don't think we will get hogan or hooker.

We're also assuming that the young kids we've picked up are actually going to develop at the expected rate which doesn't always happen.

 

[dominguez]

Might not seem like it, but IMO it may depend on who is our ruckman. We have had a dominant one for years, but that advantage might be retiring at the end of the year. Clarke has not really stood up, but he has in the past, and ruckmen often turn it have it all click together at a later age. The risk is he might not, or he might but he leaves the club first. Who else is behind him?

Absolutely. If Sandilands goes on (which was his plan until the rib/lung injury) and stays fit we could catapult up the ladder next year.

It is followed by the need for a forward. I am not a McCarthy believer and I think GWS will still want to screw us for whatever we have, and I reckon being out of the system will not be good for him. If there is a sniff with Hogan then we could potentially trade a top 3 pick and/or something else. We lose out second round pick this year as well because we traded it, so our draft this year could be compromised and that is problematic.

It'll take a crazy offer for Melbourne to consider trading Hogan this year. Even if Neale requests a trade and someone is offering 2 x first rounders for him I can't see Melbourne trading a contracted Hogan for 3 x first round picks.

Lastly, how are we going to get out of our backline? Part of that is dependent on confidence of the players, but there is also a need to replace and/or add to Johnson and McPharlin (we forget he was probably the second best rebounder, unlikely to get that with A. Pearce) - there maybe some potential left in the shed (Langdon, Morabito) but we haven't seen it yet.

If Neale stays then a fit combination of Neale/Bennell/Fyfe allows us to play Mundy and/or Hill exclusively off half back. Hopefully Sutcliffe and Sheridan can find some form too because at this stage they've gone backwards, as has Spurr.

 

[Marty Whitelaw]

We look so far off it right now it's not funny, however other teams in the last few years (WCE, Bulldogs are two that spring to mind) have shown that it is possible to reload and rebuild very quickly.

It's a little hard to know at this point in time because we are missing quite a few of our best 22 and also are trying to adapt to anew game plan.

On current form you'd have to say 2/3 years at least.

 

[dominguez]

Of course, but it's more than just that. Time after time we went 'best available' at draft time instead of filling needs, now we have a very unbalanced list with a severe lack of young tall talent. The guy had his list model, which has resulted in the list we have now. Hooker/Cam are potential wins that paper over the cracks & we have neither yet. If I had been responsible for the drafting errors he has, I would fully expect to be sacked.

Our issues this season haven't been a lack of height though, it's been ball use. They went best available which were generally good ball users. Not Bond & Lloyd's fault we're getting no games from Pitt, Simpson and Morabito.

 

[Rob]

There probably aren't enough games in the next generation of players to be able to contend next year. But it depends a lot on who comes to the club and luck with injuries.

If I was running the club i'd be targeting 2019. If it comes earlier, then great.

 

[TheLoris]

Our issues this season haven't been a lack of height though, it's been ball use. They went best available which were generally good ball users. Not Bond & Lloyd's fault we're getting no games from Pitt, Simpson and Morabito.

Well, Bond was responsible for drafting them, so whose fault is it? Pitt was a dreadful pick and Simpson was a bit of a punt. I'll concede Morra as he was a no brainer. There are many more than those two as well. We have 4 guys running the club with Harris, Rosich, Lyon and Bond, if we are rebuilding these guys aren't immune and Bond is the obvious one to be moved on.

Our mids have no confidence to kick forward as the ball comes back out so quick. Then when it gets into our back 50 we are a rabble, we have Dawson leading our backline who is a deer in the headlights when he gets the ball, Sutcliffe can't defend and Spurr is a ball burner.

Contending is a long way off and we'll have to get very lucky with recruiting.

 

[Carnthedockers]

Im far from an optimist, but if we get our trading right this year, we will be back next year. With a core group of fyfe, mundy, bennell, neale hill, walters, ballas etc, and then if we bring in a couple of mature agers, Mcarthy, and use our high pick on a gun young forward, we suddenly look strong again. Sandi (I read) wants to play on again next year and possible another, johnson has a couple left in him, and apeness fit, we really are only a key back and a key forward away from being competitive again. The beauty of free agency, and being able to trade future draft picks is, if its done correctly, things turn around quickly.
Look at West Coast when they won the spoon, they were deplorable, yet they were back near the top in no time.
We havent had our full team on the park this year, and the beauty of this predicament, is we get to put some games into our young guys.
A guy like Harley Bennell in our side makes a world of difference, and, if we could land hooker (although ross told me it was unlikely) then things are suddenly looking up. What ross says is very pertinent, our lack of high picks is telling. We simply need some raw talent, a guy like a Jack Martin.

 

[TheMcManusNose]

RE: The list, 2-3 years.

The difference between 2 and 3 being our ability to lure established KPP/Ruck talent by FA or trade.

We need:
-2KPFs (Pav replacement + the elusive number #2 KPF)
-1KPD (Dawson replacement)
-3rd tall option in the backline (Hughes?)
-A couple of skilled kicks off half back/on the wings (Tucker could be one)
-A reasonable #1 ruckman
-A competant #2 ruck/fwd (Apeness?)

That's do-able in 3 years with our current prospects and picks, 2 years if we get 2 of those spots filled by guys like McCarthy and Hooker. We should also be looking to use FA in 2017/18 to add maybe a decent ball user like the Roos did with Higgins or the Eagles with Jetta. If we continue to get doughnuts in FA or at the trade table it could be 4 years to be genuine challengers again.

RE: The game plan. **** knows. Whenever the coaching staff has refined it in to something that works and the players are used to it. Next year?

 

[MadDocker]

In relation to the back line Bootsma's kicking is a real weapon.
I think he has another shot in him

He should if been rookied this year. Silly not to do it IMO.

 

[free tara brown]

2019.

 

[Belnakor]

So now we're rebuilding. Ross in contracted until 2020.

Is Bond the guy to rebuild our list? My personal opinion is no. Think some fresh thinking at the club would be a good idea.

Bond has been there too long.

Who is responsible for keeping list cloggers like griffin mzungu hannath etc

 

[Cobbler]

Our midfield will also likely change in terms of what we're looking for.

The Fyfe, Mundy and Barlow types suited that hard contested scrap we developed. Now with a quicker game those blokes aren't suited or certainly not all of them.

I can easily see Mundy playing off half back, Fyfe off CHF maybe Barlow back in the guts as the true extractor, but he'll need some nimble mids around him.

 

[free tara brown]

Bond has been there too long.

Who is responsible for keeping list cloggers like griffin mzungu hannath etc

AT the very least a serious restructure of recruitment should be happening. We are staring at bottom four and should not be in this position. The club didn't embrace professionalism and shed its old image to return to lack of competitiveness.

 

[Scham]

When Fyfe is our captain.