When will the Carlton FC Arrive?

[Chief]

Part 2 of this thread is here:

When will the Carlton FC Arrive? Part 2

PART 1 of this thread is here: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/when-will-the-carlton-fc-arrive.1259822/ ============= We're all thinking it. We're watching this story play out for the 4th time in the last 20 years and it's the same story every time. They have a great list of exciting...

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[HTPunter]

2 and a half, and went backwards at a rate of knots every year.

Shocking coach.

Teague took over a 1-10 side, coming off a 2-20, 59% side.

I guess technically there was backwards movement, can hardly say rate of knots though.

So if he is a shocking coach, to get a 42% win rate from a side that had won 9% of the preceding 33 games, that makes Bolton the worst coach of all time by extension? And Mick was a failure too, obviously.

So who pays the price for hiring washed Mick, the worst coach of all time, and "shocking coach" Teague? Do you think Sayers has a role there?

 

[HTPunter]

How about you stop saying there was a leak then.

OH, just in case you missed it

Blues concerned about the amount of leaks coming out of the club

Carlton president Luke Sayers wants to put a stop to the leaks coming out of the club.

www.sen.com.au

 

[La Dispute]

Teague took over a 1-10 side, coming off a 2-20, 59% side.

I guess technically there was backwards movement, can hardly say rate of knots though.

So if he is a shocking coach, to get a 42% win rate from a side that had won 9% of the preceding 33 games, that makes Bolton the worst coach of all time by extension? And Mick was a failure too, obviously.

So who pays the price for hiring washed Mick, the worst coach of all time, and "shocking coach" Teague? Do you think Sayers has a role there?

All of those guys didn’t cut the mustard for various reasons. Just because Teague had a comparatively ‘good’ record in contrast to Bolton doesn’t automatically make him a better coach - the majority of senior coaches, even failed senior coaches would.

The only coach I wish we’d hung onto was Ratten.

 

[Gavin Excell]

Are there any genuine competitors to Lyon?

 

[zeggie]

Blues concerned about the amount of leaks coming out of the club

Carlton president Luke Sayers wants to put a stop to the leaks coming out of the club.

www.sen.com.au

"there’s so much mistruth and rumour and innuendo that it is unbelievable.”

ie. Pickering.

 

[zeggie]

Are there any genuine competitors to Lyon?

Bucks and Scott.

Pyke maybe, but I think he is happy in Sydney.

 

[demondavey]

Teague took over a 1-10 side, coming off a 2-20, 59% side.

I guess technically there was backwards movement, can hardly say rate of knots though.

So if he is a shocking coach, to get a 42% win rate from a side that had won 9% of the preceding 33 games, that makes Bolton the worst coach of all time by extension? And Mick was a failure too, obviously.

So who pays the price for hiring washed Mick, the worst coach of all time, and "shocking coach" Teague? Do you think Sayers has a role there?

Of course he had a role. Particularly with Teague. They virtually rushed him into that job. The Carlton membership need to demand a complete overhaul of the club. Anyone within the old guard needs to go. It’s clear it hasn’t worked at all for a decade.

 

[HTPunter]

"there’s so much mistruth and rumour and innuendo that it is unbelievable.”

ie. Pickering.

No doubt. And I do raise my eyebrows that players stormed in and tried to dramatically save his job, just on logical probabilities I'd say that's been overplayed and dramatised. But pretty clear proof of leaks, as if we needed more.

 

[demondavey]

All of those guys didn’t cut the mustard for various reasons. Just because Teague had a comparatively ‘good’ record in contrast to Bolton doesn’t automatically make him a better coach - the majority of senior coaches, even failed senior coaches would.

The only coach I wish we’d hung onto was Ratten.

The majority of your supporters on here were absolutely frothing at the thought of turfing out Ratten.

 

[Cactus_]

Are there any genuine competitors to Lyon?

Why would Carlton settle for Ross when Terry Wallace is available?

I’ve hated Carlton my entire life. I still don’t hate them anything like enough to wish Ross on them.

I reckon the Pies are more on the right track looking at Craig McRae.

 

[Noidnadroj]

It was clear from the results of 2021 he would have a hard time keeping his job. That came from Teague himself.
Lyon being "courted" came from Lyon himself.

Share a leak bro. Go on.

Yeah, I mean you hear other coach’s under pressure like Stuey Dew regularly reference in press conferences how it’s not looking good for them to coach in 2022 despite being contracted. I mean, if you know your team is struggling then why wouldn’t you publicly volunteer you probably won’t be coach next year ….


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[Noidnadroj]

Absolutely they are not. They make random pot shot predictions and hope it goes their way.

Majority said Teague was getting the arse Monday and they all could not have been more wrong, because they had no clue. No leaks.

Hahha… that’s because they knew he was getting sacked, and couldn’t believe Carlton would make him sit in exit meetings that involves talking about 2022 and potential delistings …. no club would ever make a sacked coach do that, so common sense said that given he was being sacked it had to be Monday….. except Carlton don’t have any common sense.


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[zeggie]

No doubt. And I do raise my eyebrows that players stormed in and tried to dramatically save his job, just on logical probabilities I'd say that's been overplayed and dramatised. But pretty clear proof of leaks, as if we needed more.

Not proof of leaks from the club itself. Lots of peeps with agendas.

 

[zeggie]

Yeah, I mean you hear other coach’s under pressure like Stuey Dew regularly reference in press conferences how it’s not looking good for them to coach in 2022 despite being contracted. I mean, if you know your team is struggling then why wouldn’t you publicly volunteer you probably won’t be coach next year ….


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Nobody put words into Teague's mouth. What he said was utterly stupid, same with his manager subsequently.

Waiting to hear Teague's official side of it, but I have a feeling we won't for a while....because Sayer's summary of those days is accurate.

 

[Robertio]

Yet you backed him to the hilt only a few years back with Sayers a part of that.

A few years is a long time mate, work it out.

 

[Robertio]

OH, just in case you missed it

Blues concerned about the amount of leaks coming out of the club

Carlton president Luke Sayers wants to put a stop to the leaks coming out of the club.

www.sen.com.au

So this has come out after my statement yeah?

 

[demondavey]

A few years is a long time mate, work it out.

Not really. You work it out.

 

[Robertio]

Not really. You work it out.

You back in every new coach until you don't.

 

[Madblue]

Do not want Ross Lyon anywhere near Carlton....

 

[demondavey]

Do not want Ross Lyon anywhere near Carlton....

Reasons?

 

[donkeypunchd]

2 and a half, and went backwards at a rate of knots every year.

Shocking coach.

Really? Teague had a better win-loss rate than any other coach you’ve had for a while. I watched your outfit play a couple of games in WA last year, including the Freo come-from-behind. They seemed to be on the right track, albeit still a bit callow. This year didn’t go to plan for Carlton but again they had bad run with injuries, and the lack of strong senior players was telling in some of those losses.

I don’t see what Lyon does that improves things to the speed Carlton supporters expect, you didn’t have the cattle to play finals this year and probably won’t again next year.

 

[DeLaCon]

10 years away at least

 

[LordLucifer]

I have just been told that a significant Carlton player is very disgruntled over Teague being dismissed and has fronted Sayers directly and asked for a trade.

I genuinely do not know if this is fact or fiction but I hope like hell it is utter rubbish.

 

[La Dispute]

Really? Teague had a better win-loss rate than any other coach you’ve had for a while. I watched your outfit play a couple of games in WA last year, including the Freo come-from-behind. They seemed to be on the right track, albeit still a bit callow. This year didn’t go to plan for Carlton but again they had bad run with injuries, and the lack of strong senior players was telling in some of those losses.

I don’t see what Lyon does that improves things to the speed Carlton supporters expect, you didn’t have the cattle to play finals this year and probably won’t again next year.

This keeps being brought up, but Teague’s W-L in comparison to previous coaches is irrelevant and it’s amazing the pains some posters are going to actually talk up a 40% winning record.

It has also been addressed ad nauseum by Sayers in the past couple of weeks. The club was never going to retain Teague on the basis of the coaching turnover the past decade, but on the merit of Teague as senior coach in line with the recommendations from the independent review.

The prevailing assessment was that he wasn’t up to par, there were some significant blindspots in his coaching, a senior group of players found his instruction and gameplan confusing and inconsistent and further up that his W-L record since taking over was taking giant leaps backward each season - so we rightly told him to GAGF.

Looking over previous sackings is pointless, and the only senior coach we’d be ruing losing at the time would be Ratten, and I wholeheartedly believe if an independent review was conducted at the time of his dismissal the result would have been completely different.

But to indulge anyway:

Ratten - solid W/L record, had the team playing finals in 3/4 previous years. Had a clear gameplan, which was a little front running but nothing that couldn’t be corrected.

Malthouse - wanted to job for the wrong reasons, declining W/L each year, upset the apple cart and turfed talented best 22 players for peanuts. Misread our list profile and had the team playing stagnant football to try to institute a similar gameplan to his Pies team. Results got worse, he didn’t adapt, also started encroaching into list management decisions which set the club back. Rightly told him to GAGF after a horrendous 2015.

Bolton - can’t fault the appointment, was a young enthusiastic coach who had a clear desire to head his own team. Had a decent run 2016-2017 with an older list, but had a shocking W-L record from the back half of 2017 until his sacking in mid 2019, and the team was completely rudderless. Development in young players was stalling - horrendous really, and he couldn’t eek out wins in even the most favourable of circumstances. His last 40 odd games he won something like 4. We rightly told him to GAGF.

Teague - inherited in 2019, made some changes that’d produce wins in the short term but would be counterproductive in the long run.

The club had a lot of sugar hit wins during his 11 games when the pressure was off. In the 2019 off season the club added Martin, Newnes and Pittonet as additional senior players who played 50 games between them that season. Despite this his W-L record dropped from the previous year. Defensively we took a step backwards, offensively we were OK, and largely carried on in a similar manner to 2019.

In the 2020 off season the team added Williams and Saad as quality senior footballers to the line up. There was a clear plan to attack even more, however this was shown up very early in year by a number of teams. Defensively the team took a huge step backwards, and after being strong defensively at the start of the 2019 we now in the mix with a bunch of rebuilding clubs as one of the worst defensive teams.

In addition to this the team also took a step back offensively as our ball movement stagnated, and the team struggled to implement a basic, predictable gameplan for the players to follow. This is now 6 years into the rebuild when the club started bringing in young players in bulk and they now had the requisite experience to compete. Aside from a couple of standard wins against Freo and St Kilda, who are mid-table sides, we have looked toothless.

Teague’s W/L record declined every season, his gameplan deteriorated horribly to the point senior players couldn’t adapt, the vast majority of the group no longer supported him as senior coach and he could not produce wins in some of the most basic matches for the personnel at his disposal, v North, v Gold Coast, v half of West Coast, and this includes 2 All-Australians and another who made the squad in Weitering. We’d arguably have a year like 2018 without their influence, which at times has been genuine solo missions to get the team over the line.

We can compare recent dismissals until we’re blue in the face, but if we are looking it in isolation, based on an independent report - which is what the club has done - then it was 100% the right move to remove Teague as senior coach.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

The thing the Carlton board should be reflecting seriously on - but I'll bet anything they're not - is how and why Teague was awarded the job in the first place.

The guy's plan to win football games clearly had very, very significant flaws. That's clear to anybody with half a clue who has watched them play lately.

Why wasn't this picked up during the selection process?

It's pretty obvious how he got the job. He delivered a few (ultimately meaningless) wins to a club that were totally starved of them. That got momentum, got the fans on board, and it went from there.

Did that short spell mean he was the best coach for Carlton over the next 5-10 years, which is what you should be looking to appoint? Not necessarily, of course. He clearly wasn't.

The problem with football is it's such a totally public pursuit that those making the decisions are (somewhat understandably) petrified of blowback on their decisions. It leads them to make the decision that is safest publicly, not safest in the interests of the club. If the supporter base, media and other loud cheerleaders are behind something, then they'll go with it in the "at least they can't say I told you so!" spirit.

If Carlton had appointed a different coach and he was a failure, there'd still be people bellowing about Teague's half season as caretaker and how the answer was right in front of them and they somehow, inexplicably, ignored it.

This is hardly a Carlton issue. It afflicts many - perhaps most - clubs, including my own. It's rare that clubs have strong enough leaders to truly withstand the enormous pressure of the football world and make calm, unaffected decisions. Those clubs that do usually excel.

Most of these decision makers are highly qualified in business circles and people point to that as making them strong leaders. It doesn't necessarily. Even big business decisions largely remain hidden from the widespread public attention that comes with football.

Will Carlton reflect on that and have the balls to go through with a proper, full process, and get the right person, whoever that might be?

Dunno. Even after all that, you can still get it wrong. But you probably have a better chance of getting it wrong in the first place.