When will the Carlton FC Arrive?

[Chief]

Part 2 of this thread is here:

When will the Carlton FC Arrive? Part 2

PART 1 of this thread is here: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/when-will-the-carlton-fc-arrive.1259822/ ============= We're all thinking it. We're watching this story play out for the 4th time in the last 20 years and it's the same story every time. They have a great list of exciting...

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[Robertio]

I have just been told that a significant Carlton player is very disgruntled over Teague being dismissed and has fronted Sayers directly and asked for a trade.

I genuinely do not know if this is fact or fiction but I hope like hell it is utter rubbish.

Charlie Curnow?

 

[zeggie]

Charlie Curnow?

Nah not CC, the rumour is Weiters and I predict it's a load of crap. He would take it to Cain anyway, not Sayers.

 

[nineteen eighty]

This keeps being brought up, but Teague’s W-L in comparison to previous coaches is irrelevant and it’s amazing the pains some posters are going to actually talk up a 40% winning record.

It has also been addressed ad nauseum by Sayers in the past couple of weeks. The club was never going to retain Teague on the basis of the coaching turnover the past decade, but on the merit of Teague as senior coach in line with the recommendations from the independent review.

The prevailing assessment was that he wasn’t up to par, there were some significant blindspots in his coaching, a senior group of players found his instruction and gameplan confusing and inconsistent and further up that his W-L record since taking over was taking giant leaps backward each season - so we rightly told him to GAGF.

Looking over previous sackings is pointless, and the only senior coach we’d be ruing losing at the time would be Ratten, and I wholeheartedly believe if an independent review was conducted at the time of his dismissal the result would have been completely different.

But to indulge anyway:

Ratten - solid W/L record, had the team playing finals in 3/4 previous years. Had a clear gameplan, which was a little front running but nothing that couldn’t be corrected.

Malthouse - wanted to job for the wrong reasons, declining W/L each year, upset the apple cart and turfed talented best 22 players for peanuts. Misread our list profile and had the team playing stagnant football to try to institute a similar gameplan to his Pies team. Results got worse, he didn’t adapt, also started encroaching into list management decisions which set the club back. Rightly told him to GAGF after a horrendous 2015.

Bolton - can’t fault the appointment, was a young enthusiastic coach who had a clear desire to head his own team. Had a decent run 2016-2017 with an older list, but had a shocking W-L record from the back half of 2017 until his sacking in mid 2019, and the team was completely rudderless. Development in young players was stalling - horrendous really, and he couldn’t eek out wins in even the most favourable of circumstances. His last 40 odd games he won something like 4. We rightly told him to GAGF.

Teague - inherited in 2019, made some changes that’d produce wins in the short term but would be counterproductive in the long run.

The club had a lot of sugar hit wins during his 11 games when the pressure was off. In the 2019 off season the club added Martin, Newnes and Pittonet as additional senior players who played 50 games between them that season. Despite this his W-L record dropped from the previous year. Defensively we took a step backwards, offensively we were OK, and largely carried on in a similar manner to 2019.

In the 2020 off season the team added Williams and Saad as quality senior footballers to the line up. There was a clear plan to attack even more, however this was shown up very early in year by a number of teams. Defensively the team took a huge step backwards, and after being strong defensively at the start of the 2019 we now in the mix with a bunch of rebuilding clubs as one of the worst defensive teams.

In addition to this the team also took a step back offensively as our ball movement stagnated, and the team struggled to implement a basic, predictable gameplan for the players to follow. This is now 6 years into the rebuild when the club started bringing in young players in bulk and they now had the requisite experience to compete. Aside from a couple of standard wins against Freo and St Kilda, who are mid-table sides, we have looked toothless.

Teague’s W/L record declined every season, his gameplan deteriorated horribly to the point senior players couldn’t adapt, the vast majority of the group no longer supported him as senior coach and he could not produce wins in some of the most basic matches for the personnel at his disposal, v North, v Gold Coast, v half of West Coast, and this includes 2 All-Australians and another who made the squad in Weitering. We’d arguably have a year like 2018 without their influence, which at times has been genuine solo missions to get the team over the line.

We can compare recent dismissals until we’re blue in the face, but if we are looking it in isolation, based on an independent report - which is what the club has done - then it was 100% the right move to remove Teague as senior coach.

I would be interested to know the following:

1/ who was the football manager during Teague's time as senior coach? Did they have one in place? The club website certainly doesn't list anyone in such a role.
2/ who were Teague's assistants during this time?

I assert he as a rookie was given the senior job without the right level of assistance in place. He never had a chance to succeed. I still think he's been hung out to dry.

And with Ross coming on board, what level of control will be placed over him? Will Ross be his own football manager? What were Lyon's recommendations to Sayers around football department structure that covered off oversight of his own role?

 

[zeggie]

I would be interested to know the following:

1/ who was the football manager during Teague's time as senior coach? Did they have one in place? The club website certainly doesn't list anyone in such a role.
2/ who were Teague's assistants during this time?

I assert he as a rookie was given the senior job without the right level of assistance in place. He never had a chance to succeed. I still think he's been hung out to dry.

So you don't know any of the other staff involved, yet assert he didn't get enough assistance. Is that you Kane Cornes?

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

Nah not CC, the rumour is Weiters and I predict it's a load of crap. He would take it to Cain anyway, not Sayers.

Managed by Pickering. You can see where that came from.

 

[HBF]

Did you guys not see sayers nodding his head whilst Liddle was speaking ?

He was backing Liddle all the way. Liddle is now the 'MAN' at Carlton
Sayers wont be there full time as he has too much on his plate and will be guided by Liddle

I'd be very surprised if Liddle remained in the job next year.

 

[nineteen eighty]

So you don't know any of the other staff involved, yet assert he didn't get enough assistance. Is that you Kane Cornes?

Cheers. I understand it's another wasted season for the club and its supporters. Try to not let these discussions get to you mate. Innocent questions and just as innocent assertion. Its an opinion

 

[Rioli2Rioli]

I'd be very surprised if Liddle remained in the job next year.

Whats your reasoning for that opinion , Where area would you fault his performances
Taking out the bias regarding SOS

 

[Rich01]

I'd be very surprised if Liddle remained in the job next year.

Sayers is a smart man.
Tells the media the expectation is finals in 2022. If they don’t achieve this, Lloyd and Liddle are in the gun. Ross essentially gets a free pass for his first year.

 

[HBF]

Whats your reasoning for that opinion , Where area would you fault his performances
Taking out the bias regarding SOS

His biggest issue is sticking his nose into the running of the footy department. It's alleged he even stuck his nose into the recruiting and list management of the club when it really falls to Lloyd.

And let's not forget this review was conducted under his watch.

 

[Rioli2Rioli]

His biggest issue is sticking his nose into the running of the footy department. It's alleged he even stuck his nose into the recruiting and list management of the club when it really falls to Lloyd.

And let's not forget this review was conducted under his watch.

Yes the review was conducted under his watch as was Brendon Gale at Richmond , I dont see an issue with that unless the review found something he did wrong but it appears that he is fine.

The list management thing also looks like he was right to do so as he was retained and SOS was moved on bt the former president
From the outside its looking like Liddle will be there running the show going foward

 

[Davey33]

Why would Carlton settle for Ross when Terry Wallace is available?

I’ve hated Carlton my entire life. I still don’t hate them anything like enough to wish Ross on them.

I reckon the Pies are more on the right track looking at Craig McRae.

Terry Wallace???
Maybe Richmond wants to rehire him...

 

[Cactus_]

Terry Wallace???
Maybe Richmond wants to rehire him...

Terry and Ross are both old fashioned used car salesmen. Why would Carlton want to do that to themselves? If Clarkson was available I could understand you getting him in, but Ross? Even getting Buckley on the rebound would be better that Ross.

 

[Rich01]

His biggest issue is sticking his nose into the running of the footy department. It's alleged he even stuck his nose into the recruiting and list management of the club when it really falls to Lloyd.

And let's not forget this review was conducted under his watch.

If the review was a successful one it would have identified those issues.
Otherwise its just innuendo.
Did the members email from the President address this? I’d expect action from it if it was found to be true.

 

[10571z]

Great response by Lyon in regards to Langdona comments. Carlton fans should be seriously excited IMO. This will be good for them

 

[demondavey]

Surprised Ed Langdon

15

Ed Langdon

Age

29

Ht

182cm

Wt

78kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

21.0

5star

K

12.1

4star

HB

9.0

5star

M

5.0

5star

T

2.3

4star

CL

1.4

4star

D

20.3

5star

K

12.8

5star

HB

7.5

4star

M

4.5

4star

T

0.8

1star

CL

1.8

4star

D

13.0

4star

K

6.4

3star

HB

6.6

4star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.4

4star

CL

0.6

3star

shot his mouth off. Just focus on footy Ed.

 

[demondavey]

"Waste of three days": David Teague's manager responds to client's sacking

“It’s been a tough couple of days."

www.sen.com.au

This review started in June? So months ago they simply didn’t have the faith in the coach or footy department at all even though finals was in contention? They also asked Teague for feedback re the review?

Shambles doesn’t even do this justice.

 

[10571z]

Pieces falling into place for Carlton.

Brian Cook to come on board. Billionare pratt out. Lyon or Clarkson in…

Got to say the direction is right for Carlton finally

 

[Rich01]

Pieces falling into place for Carlton.

Brian Cook to come on board. Billionare pratt out. Lyon or Clarkson in…

Got to say the direction is right for Carlton finally

Huge news and a great get.

Sayers obviously had an wish list in Lyon and Cook and hunted them even with incumbents in the seat. Would have been embarrassing if we heard Sayers courting Cook and he declined the role.

The downside of this development is that it shows the Sayers is just paying lip service to the review (which isn’t really a surprise to any after the last couple of weeks) and current CFC staff wouldn’t be trusting this blokes word at all.

But he gets his dream team, and now for him to butt out and let them work.

 

[Jobe Watson]

I don't know if the mentally weak players on Carlton's list will be able to handle Ross Lyon as coach. Could be a disaster.

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

I don't know if the mentally weak players on Carlton's list will be able to handle Ross Lyon as coach. Could be a disaster.

Ridding ourselves of any mentally weak players would not be a disaster.

 

[10571z]

I don't know if the mentally weak players on Carlton's list will be able to handle Ross Lyon as coach. Could be a disaster.

How is that a diaster? It’s the best possible scenario. They might go backwards firstly but will be better off for it.

To many high draft Picks on their list who need some home truths. The whole club does as well.

Lyon or Clarkson will deliver them

 

[Schnitzengruben]

I don't know if the mentally weak players on Carlton's list will be able to handle Ross Lyon as coach. Could be a disaster.

You mean the entire Carlton Football Club?

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

You mean the entire Carlton Football Club?

Have you seen Essendon over the last 6,204 days? Average losing margin of 56 in finals.

Talk about weak!

 

[La Dispute]

Essendon FC didn’t have the mental fortitude to legitimately have a crack at a flag so gambled on the health of 34 young men in the prime of their careers.

Predictably folded like a cheap suit when yesterday’s game became too hard.

Still a very fragile organisation.