Where are north at?

[Wild Bill]

You're having a laugh if you really believe that the Dogs and North are in similar positions regarding their lists.

What? Where did I compare the lists. We are currently 1 all in 2016 and a big chance to meet again in 5 weeks. With a couple of key players coming back it would be a good final.

 

[Wild Bill]

What's worse, a 20 year old playing a shocker or a whole team bar Goldy and MacMillan not rocking up? Your players seemed more worried about going for Bontempelli than actually winning. Lukas Webb had more clearances than Cunnington and Swallow, your apparent two main inside mids, combined.

Brad's mastermind gameplan of kick it long to tall forwards is a beauty. I look forward to seeing how it goes when Petrie and Waite call it a day (that's if they do, Jimmy Brayshaw might want to put out a few more commemorative jerseys for sale).

14 points and only 2 players came to play. Lets hope a couple more come to play if we meet again. Could be starting a Richmond run of 1 and done.

 

[Super Hans]

14 points and only 2 players came to play. Lets hope a couple more come to play if we meet again. Could be starting a Richmond run of 1 and done.

You were one of the geniuses who talked up your 16 point win against us earlier this year as a smashing, now we beat you by almost the same margin and it was a nail biter.

You'll be right once Higgins and Waite get fit, only nostradamus could see them two would get injured.

 

[Bomberblitzer]

What? Where did I compare the lists. We are currently 1 all in 2016 and a big chance to meet again in 5 weeks. With a couple of key players coming back it would be a good final.

Who currently has a better list - North or the Bulldogs?

Who is more likely to be forced to rebuild sooner - North or the Bulldogs?

Who is more likely to win a flag sooner - North or the Bulldogs?

 

[Wild Bill]

Who currently has a better list - North or the Bulldogs?

Who is more likely to be forced to rebuild sooner - North or the Bulldogs?

Who is more likely to win a flag sooner - North or the Bulldogs?

They have won 1 more game with an easier draw. 61-45 47-61 are the results of our 2 games. It will be a flip of the coin if we meet in 5 weeks.

Do I care what happens in 5 years? 2016 is alive. Flag and the dogs!!!

 

[Mofra]

Mental toughness when things go wrong or a willingness to take the game on? 2 years ago we were 33 points down in the 3rd quarter of an Elimination final and won. Things were going wrong and we showed a willingness to take the game on. The following week we took on the Cats and withstood a barn storming finish.

1 year ago it was a few points the difference at 3 quarter time and went onto win in front of over 90,000, the next week went to Sydney (who smashed us the year before in the prelim) and won.

We have won 4 finals in 2 years - not sure mentally weak teams can do that. They normally crumble and go out in the 1st week or straight sets.

That's 1 and 2 years ago, respectively. I don't think the group in it's current state has the capacity to repeat that.

Saturday night was the first good look I've had at North for a fortnight and I wasn't impressed - targeting Bonti before the opening bounce with a player that would have ranked 22 in "players the opposition have to worry about" (Bonti actually laughed at him later in the game when he smothered Spud's kick). North's ball movement was slow which meant we could set up our zone faster than North would deliver the ball into their F50 which is why our defence looked better than it is on paper (Hamling's hardly played all year and as much as Roberts is a good honest trier he's not exactly SOS).

We started the second half with Webb in the center square - a 19 kid playing his third game for the year. Jong & Dunkley also were given significant midfield minutes and started at least one quarter in there each. I doubt in a similar situation Brad Scott would put that much trust in his younger players.
Your best line breakers seemed to be Harvey & Wells, hardly a credit to Brad Scott's capacity to develop younger players or give kids important roles.

 

[BRWB]

It's an interesting contrast between The Scott brothers.

One retires aging players even with a little left in the tank. The other hangs on tight to his old players until they inevitably break or run out of petrol.

One recruits injury prone and old players. The other recruits good young to mid age players like Smith, Danger and Henderson (Clarke the exception).

One has a rule that requires a certain amount of sub 50 game players to be picked each week. The other picks Ray ahead of Ryan Clark.

One brother is contending while rebuilding on the fly nicely.

The other brother has been fined for squealing about umpiring. And thinks he is unlucky to get injured players.

How can identical twins behave so differently?

One thing is certain: both coaches clubs' future and their respective employment prospects are totally different.

 

[Wild Bill]

It's an interesting contrast between The Scott brothers.

One retires aging players even with a little left in the tank. The other hangs on tight to his old players until they inevitably break or run out of petrol.

One recruits injury prone and old players. The other recruits good young to mid age players like Smith, Danger and Henderson (Clarke the exception).

One has a rule that requires a certain amount of sub 50 game players to be picked each week. The other picks Ray ahead of Ryan Clark.

One brother is contending while rebuilding on the fly nicely.

The other brother has been fined for squealing about umpiring. And thinks he is unlucky to get injured players.

How can identical twins behave so differently?

One thing is certain: both coaches clubs' future and their respective employment prospects are totally different.

Amazing as as far as I know twins share the same brain. They both think the same thoughts, feel each other's pain and can see dead people who don't know that they are dead. Mind blowing stuff.

 

[BRWB]

Amazing as as far as I know twins share the same brain. They both think the same thoughts, feel each other's pain and can see dead people who don't know that they are dead. Mind blowing stuff.

Identical twins have the same DNA dude. So yeah they kinda do have the same brains

Not sure you can answer but which twin (and more relevantly - strategy) would you prefer?

 

[Wild Bill]

Identical twins have the same DNA dude. So yeah they kinda do have the same brains

Not sure you can answer but which twin (and more relevantly - strategy) would you prefer?

I think you should stop posting for a while.

 

[Brunswick Trap King]

I think you should stop posting for a while.

Preferably forever.

 

[Football Tragic]

I think they are in a bad way not just for this year but for the future too. The club gambled on taking a high risk strategy of keeping their talented older players and investing in more elderly players to try and win a flag immediately. We can now see that ploy has failed utterly. I admire them for trying something different and going for an all or nothing tactic but it has left a huge hole in their list. Many experts stated that injuries and form would eventually creep up on the older players and this has come to fruition now.

How North handles the next transition now will be very interesting because I fear they will fall and fall quickly with many years of redevelopment pain ahead.

At least you won some finals though hey......

 

[BRWB]

I think you should stop posting for a while.

In all seriousness, Geelong and North are great case studies in how to manage and rebuild an ageing list while still genuinely contending.

North beat Geelong in a final two years ago.

Both had similar age profiles at the time.

What has each club done?

Geelong recruited proven young to mid age players like Stanley, Danger, Smith, Henderson and retired champs like Kelly, Johnson and Chapman. They lost Christenson who wanted to go for personal reasons.

North recruited injury prone players like Anderson, Higgins and Waite. And oldies like NDS and Ray. Not sure who of note they retired but they also let a mid age good player in Greenwood go.

Geelong played youth. North less of that.

Very different strategies.

Very bad outcome for North.

And this isn't hindsight - hardly anyone neutral ever thought North's strategy would work.

 

[HBFlanker]

The main issue at North is lack of exposure for a lot of the highly rated young players.

Durdin, Vickers-Willis, Neilsen, Garner, Mckay, Turner, Wagner, have either played little, or no AFL football, and have not had a prolonged run at it.

Once this occurs, which may take a couple of seasons, they may be okay.

Its just too difficult to now as there are too many unproven players, and too many older players still playing and not giving up their spots.

 

[Wild Bill]

The main issue at North is lack of exposure for a lot of the highly rated young players.

Durdin, Vickers-Willis, Neilsen, Garner, Mckay, Turner, Wagner, have either played little, or no AFL football, and have not had a prolonged run at it.

Once this occurs, which may take a couple of seasons, they may be okay.

Its just too difficult to now as there are too many unproven players, and too many older players still playing and not giving up their spots.

Next year that will change. Until then we won't know if the pending disaster will occur. Big footy is not great at predicting the future. So many chicken littles that think the sky is falling.

 

[Wild Bill]

In all seriousness, Geelong and North are great case studies in how to manage and rebuild an ageing list while still genuinely contending.

North beat Geelong in a final two years ago.

Both had similar age profiles at the time.

What has each club done?

Geelong recruited proven young to mid age players like Stanley, Danger, Smith, Henderson and retired champs like Kelly, Johnson and Chapman. They lost Christenson who wanted to go for personal reasons.

North recruited injury prone players like Anderson, Higgins and Waite. And oldies like NDS and Ray. Not sure who of note they retired but they also let a mid age good player in Greenwood go.

Geelong played youth. North less of that.

Very different strategies.

Very bad outcome for North.

And this isn't hindsight - hardly anyone neutral ever thought North's strategy would work.

This is so hard to comprehend when they share the same brain waves.

Mind bottling stuff!!!

 

[BRWB]

This is so hard to comprehend when they share the same brain waves.

Mind bottling stuff!!!

Mind boggling. Never change mate

Enjoy the wilderness

 

[shintemaster]

I think they are in a bad way not just for this year but for the future too. The club gambled on taking a high risk strategy of keeping their talented older players and investing in more elderly players to try and win a flag immediately. We can now see that ploy has failed utterly. I admire them for trying something different and going for an all or nothing tactic but it has left a huge hole in their list. Many experts stated that injuries and form would eventually creep up on the older players and this has come to fruition now.

How North handles the next transition now will be very interesting because I fear they will fall and fall quickly with many years of redevelopment pain ahead.

At least you won some finals though hey......

How have they gambled with a high risk strategy? They've taken basically all their picks to the draft for years (beyond recruiting a couple of planned longterm players in Anderson and Jacobs). I'm not sure what more North could have added to their squad over that time. We've not given up picks only salary cap for older players we have retained and brought in, we have also not been spending the full cap and have plenty of capacity to spend on a big name if we can get them.

I don't think the club would disagree with the idea that they have gone all out for a premiership in the last couple of years - I just don't see how they have mortgaged any future by doing so. They may have slightly delayed any potential rejig as we fall down but in simple terms they've gone to the draft and kept picks. There's not a lot else they can do.

Next year that will change. Until then we won't know if the pending disaster will occur. Big footy is not great at predicting the future. So many chicken littles that think the sky is falling.

For the last 2 years we've been seen as unable to win a final. This year we were seen (by AFL captains) as the most likely to drop out of the 8. Port Adelaide were up there as flag favourites at the start of 2014. Gold Coast were going to be dominating the competition by now. Collingwood were "coming" in a big way at the start of the year. You'd have got ridiculous odds on Fremantle to miss the 8 before the start of the season.

Basically, people don't know sh*t about half as much as they think they do when it comes to footy - including people that should apparently know more than all of us. The jury is out on where we'll go to next year but I'm not overly concerned, their is a solid core there already and the older players (bar Waite early and Wells) are more often than not part of the issue at the moment. Losing our entire 2014 draftee squad to longterm injuries last year put a reasonable dent in our flexibility this year.

 

[Wild Bill]

Mind boggling. Never change mate

Enjoy the wilderness

No no no - bottling. Like when your thoughts get trapped in a bottle.... Chaz Michael Michaels!!!!

 

[Moti]

I think it is Arden Street, just up from the Children's Hospital.

 

[Moti]

In all seriousness, Geelong and North are great case studies in how to manage and rebuild an ageing list while still genuinely contending.

North beat Geelong in a final two years ago.

Both had similar age profiles at the time.

What has each club done?

Geelong recruited proven young to mid age players like Stanley, Danger, Smith, Henderson and retired champs like Kelly, Johnson and Chapman. They lost Christenson who wanted to go for personal reasons.

North recruited injury prone players like Anderson, Higgins and Waite. And oldies like NDS and Ray. Not sure who of note they retired but they also let a mid age good player in Greenwood go.

Geelong played youth. North less of that.

Very different strategies.

Very bad outcome for North.

And this isn't hindsight - hardly anyone neutral ever thought North's strategy would work.

Roos used all their draft picks. Geelong sold most of their first couple. Roos brought in players with zero cost, Cats paid to get their guys in.

Both strategies are good in their own right, and both view a view to the future.

However, I think the type of players that North have targeted, except last year, is the larger issue.

 

[BRWB]

Roos used all their draft picks. Geelong sold most of their first couple. Roos brought in players with zero cost, Cats paid to get their guys in.

Both strategies are good in their own right, and both view a view to the future.

However, I think the type of players that North have targeted, except last year, is the larger issue.

Fair enough - what types do you mean?

 

[shintemaster]

Roos used all their draft picks. Geelong sold most of their first couple. Roos brought in players with zero cost, Cats paid to get their guys in.

Both strategies are good in their own right, and both view a view to the future.

However, I think the type of players that North have targeted, except last year, is the larger issue.

Higgins was a good pickup.
NDS performed for us until injury, at $$$ only I guess you can't complain.
Waite won us a bunch of games and at least 2 finals IMHO. Again, $$$ only but can't complain.

As you say the issue is probably who we've targeted but let's be honest, we can't land everyone we want to - it's not like we wouldn't have put our hand up for Dangerfield and could easily have matched the money. Unfortunately we couldn't compete with the bright lights of Corio.

We know what we lack I'd argue - we just haven't been able to land enough of the types we are after.

The main issue at North is lack of exposure for a lot of the highly rated young players.

Durdin, Vickers-Willis, Neilsen, Garner, Mckay, Turner, Wagner, have either played little, or no AFL football, and have not had a prolonged run at it.

Once this occurs, which may take a couple of seasons, they may be okay.

Its just too difficult to now as there are too many unproven players, and too many older players still playing and not giving up their spots.

A lot of this outside our control though. Durdin has had injuries. VW, Nielsen from memory. Garner same. McKay very raw for a KPF - you'd only play him if needed. Turner injured most of this year. Wagner got time and wasn't ready. Like I said earlier losing the whole of the class of 2014 last year put a big delay in development which we are feeling this year. Normally you'd expect 1-2 of them to have had a bit of testing out by now.

 

[Wild Bill]

Higgins was a good pickup.
NDS performed for us until injury, at $$$ only I guess you can't complain.
Waite won us a bunch of games and at least 2 finals IMHO. Again, $$$ only but can't complain.

As you say the issue is probably who we've targeted but let's be honest, we can't land everyone we want to - it's not like we wouldn't have put our hand up for Dangerfield and could easily have matched the money. Unfortunately we couldn't compete with the bright lights of Corio.

We know what we lack I'd argue - we just haven't been able to land enough of the types we are after.

We have also been as good if not the best team in the comp for retaining players through the introduction of the expansion teams and free agency.

 

[shintemaster]

We have also been as good if not the best team in the comp for retaining players through the introduction of the expansion teams and free agency.

While I agree this can be seen as a double edged sword - we've arguably overpaid to retain players that weren't good enough, or at least worth what we paid them. Realistically I guess we had no choice - it was either that or lose players for peanuts so we could get another draft pick in the 80's after it had been pulled to pieces. Not exactly a gamble most teams would take.