Where are you BSA?

[Cyclops]

Come on, man, I've got the shakes. Where's my fix of Militaria?

Here's one to get the ball rolling.

Who am I?

5 points-On my husband's death I took control of his domain.

4 points-My husband had a famous tomb named after him.

3 points-I once rammed and sank one of my own factions ships in a battle in order to escape destruction.

2 points-When my commander saw my feat (mentioned above), he exclaimed "My men have become women and my women men".

1 point-A famous historian was born in my capital.

 

[Bloodstained Angel]

I better crank it up again Cyclops !

Had kinda let it slide a bit 'coz I though you would be a bit sick of it all by now, and work has been a bit hectric too...

Ok - starting from next week, more Militaria Trivia, more articles on famous (and not so famous) battles.

and ummm - I dunno ?

Was it Catherine of Spain ?

just guessing

cheers

 

[Roylion]

Originally posted by Cyclops
Come on, man, I've got the shakes. Where's my fix of Militaria?

Here's one to get the ball rolling.

Who am I?

5 points-On my husband's death I took control of his domain.

4 points-My husband had a famous tomb named after him.

3 points-I once rammed and sank one of my own factions ships in a battle in order to escape destruction.

2 points-When my commander saw my feat (mentioned above), he exclaimed "My men have become women and my women men".

1 point-A famous historian was born in my capital.

It was Artemisia, Queen of Halicarnassus.

4 points- It was actually her descendant and namesake that built the 'mausoleum' after her husband Mausolus.

3 points - At the battle of Salamis.

2 points - Her commander was Xerxes the Persian King.

1 point - Have no idea. Herodotus?

 

[Player]

What I know:

The commander was Xerxes.

The battle was the historical naval battle fought at Salamis between the Persians and their Ionian 'allies' verses a Hellenic alliance of Greek city-states.


What I assume:

I assume the historian is Herodotus, the greatest Greek historian of the ancient world.


What I guess:

Was the Queen Olympias, divorced wife of Phillip and mother to Alexander?

 

[Player]

Since Roylion beat me, and apparently has the right answers I wish to change my historian to Thucydiedes (sp?)

 

[Darky]

Rose Hancock?

 

[Cyclops]

Roylion gets 6 points for correcting the quizmaster. Right on all points

The Historian in question is of course Herodotus, Father of History (and "father of lies" to some), who gleefully recounts this exploit of his countrywoman in his seminal history of the Persian war.

I guess Roylion gets to ask the next question.

 

[Frodo]

Wow, I'm impressed. Such data all stored in Bigfooty members minds!

 

[Roylion]

OK. Here's a reasonably easy one.

CLUE: Famous medieval woman.

Who am I?

5 points: I was the Queen of England and France during my lifetime, as well as a Duchess in my own right.

4 points. I have been called by modern scholars the Grandmother of Europe, being the mother of 10 children, including three Kings, one Duke, two Queens, one Duchess and two Countesses, as well as the grandmother of another three kings, one Emperor, one Empress, three Dukes, and five Queens, in countries stretching from Scotland and Denmark in the north, to Sicily in the south.

3 points: Presided over the famous Courts of Love.

2 points: Reputedly had a love affair with my uncle, the Prince of Antioch while on Crusade.

1 point: I died at the age of 82 and was buried at Fontevrault Abbey, beside my second husband, one of my (very famous) sons, one of my daughters and a daughter-in-law.

I am?

 

[Cyclops]

Eleanor of Aquitaine?

I remember she ran the "Court of Lerv", and was a great patron of the arts. Is the famous son she is buried beside Richard Couer-de-Lion?

Its either her or Princess Shazza of Taylors Lakes.

 

[Roylion]

See, I said it was an easy one.

Eleanor of Aquitaine it is. She's one of the most famous and influential women in medieval history. Her life at times reads like a Hollywood movie script. Affairs with her uncle, divorced, going on crusade, imprisoned by her second husband for fifteen years, after leading a rebellion against him, organiser of the Courts of Love, attacked by her grandson in his efforts to take the throne of England, etc. etc.

She was married to King Louis VII of France, who divorced her because she couldn't bear him a son. She then married Henry Plantagent (Henry II of England) and between them they controlled more of modern France than the King of France did.

She had 10 children, included Richard Couer-de-Lion and King John (he who signed the Magna Carta). Another son, Henry was crowned co-King of England, with his father, but died before he could take the kingdom himself. Two of her five daughters became Queens in Spain and Sicily, while another became the mother of the Emperor of the Holy Roman Empire. A granddaughter became Queen of France, another became Queen of Scotland and yet another became Queen of Denmark.

 

[Fat Red]

Originally posted by Player
Since Roylion beat me, and apparently has the right answers I wish to change my historian to Thucydiedes (sp?)

So you bloody well should. Herodotus the greatest Greek historian my arse. Thucydides ****s all over him.

 

[Cyclops]

Now now, Fat Red, the criticism of Herodotus is much overdone for mine. So he's whimsical and gullible. At least he includes multiple versions of events (eg the Athenian and Corinthian versions of Plataea). It's easy to laugh at his stories of flying snakes ("I saw them!") and striking pyramid builders, but he tells it like he heard it.

Thuycidides on the other hand is a bitter partisan, a thorough-going Athenian Aristocrat. He indirectly has a go at Herodotus for innacuracy, but then intersperses his history with lengthy speeches he could never have heard. He exchanges gullible acceptence and plurality for his own carefully edited version of events. Occasionally his rational and fair mask slips, and his bitter heart shows (as in his outburst gainst Cimon in the Sphacteria campaign). He also has a moral point to make about power corrupting which colours his narrative somewhat.

For me Herodotus' gentle, gossipy and somewhat uncritical approach allows more of his story to speak for itself. Thucydides' terse and precise prose conceals the way in which he manipulates the story to his own ends.

 

[Cyclops]

Umm, so I go again...

Okay, here's a Royal quiz.

1) Name the only King of England reputed to have died from having a red hot poker stuck up his bum.

2) Name two mediavel Kings who had leprosy.

3) Which King of England first started using a number after his name (and no, it isn't William the first)?

4) What language did Emperor Charles V speak to his horse?

Winner gets a swift kick for being a smart-bum.

 

[Fat Red]

3) Well it could hardly be William I. Either Harold II or William II.
4) German. To God, Spanish, to women Italian, to men French.

 

[Fat Red]

Originally posted by Cyclops
Now now, Fat Red, the criticism of Herodotus is much overdone for mine. So he's whimsical and gullible. At least he includes multiple versions of events (eg the Athenian and Corinthian versions of Plataea). It's easy to laugh at his stories of flying snakes ("I saw them!") and striking pyramid builders, but he tells it like he heard it.

Thuycidides on the other hand is a bitter partisan, a thorough-going Athenian Aristocrat. He indirectly has a go at Herodotus for innacuracy, but then intersperses his history with lengthy speeches he could never have heard. He exchanges gullible acceptence and plurality for his own carefully edited version of events. Occasionally his rational and fair mask slips, and his bitter heart shows (as in his outburst gainst Cimon in the Sphacteria campaign). He also has a moral point to make about power corrupting which colours his narrative somewhat.

For me Herodotus' gentle, gossipy and somewhat uncritical approach allows more of his story to speak for itself. Thucydides' terse and precise prose conceals the way in which he manipulates the story to his own ends.

I agree Herodotus is a better storyteller.

And yes, one needs to be critical in interpreting what Thucydides has to say, but that's true of any historian (even Herodotus). Whatever his biases, he has a historical method which is more or less the one still used by modern historians: research, consider and weigh the evidence, come to a view of what happened, report it, analyse it.
In comparison Herodotus is a mere storyteller. That's not really a criticism, given that he came first. But it's like comparing Geoffrey Blainey or Manning Clark (examples of good historians with shocking political bias) with Peter Carey.

 

[Cyclops]

You can't say Thucydides is an historian like Manning Clarke or Geoff Blainey. If Herodotus is a storyteller, then Thucydides is a journalist. He reels off his analysis but doesn't let you look at the sources. He puts words into peoples mouths to serve the purpose of the story-his story.

At least Herodotus identifies his sources-the Egyptian priest, a carving on a pyramid, a monument at Delphi or Salamis. We can verify some of the quotes, and draw conclusions about his other sources to further our historical insight.

Thucydides does not allow this-his history is signed, sealed and delivered, allowing very little interrogation. Was he at Sphacteria? Did he hear the Melian dialogue first hand? Did he get both sides of the Sicilian campaign, or just rumours?

Herodotus wrote a better history because he included various ideas and didn't assume he knew best. He is at his best when descibing the Phoenician expedition around Africa-he doubts they really went because they said they saw the sun tilt to the north once they crossed the equator! By including something he doubted, he allows us to verify the story is true. That is real history, not the dramatised course of events cooked up by Thucydides.

 

[Fat Red]

But Herodotus values his material on interest rather than significance. Thucydides writes an informed analysis of events.

Anyway, you make fair points and you probably (clearly) know both of them better than me.

 

[Roylion]

Originally posted by Cyclops
Umm, so I go again...

Okay, here's a Royal quiz.

1) Name the only King of England reputed to have died from having a red hot poker stuck up his bum.

2) Name two mediavel Kings who had leprosy.

3) Which King of England first started using a number after his name (and no, it isn't William the first)?

4) What language did Emperor Charles V speak to his horse?

Winner gets a swift kick for being a smart-bum.

1) King Edward II, (the first English Prince of Wales) at the instigation of his estranged wife Queen Isabella of France and her lover Roger Mortimer Earl of March.

2) Robert the Bruce and Baldwin IV King of Jerusalem.

3) Edward III, I think, but I'm not sure exactly. (I know he was referred to the third Edward after the Conquest.) Harold II was known as Harold Godwinson during his lifetime and William II was known as William Rufus.

4) Well it had to be either German (his native language), French (the international language of the time) or Spanish (he was King of Castile and Aragon as well). But really I have no idea. German?

I didn't look any of these answers up either.

 

[Cyclops]

Good work Roylion and Fat Red, except on Q3, which I thought was Henry VII, but I'm starting to worry about that one now.

I know he called himself Henry VII to make it look like he followed on from the other kings in legitimate succesion instead of being a violent usurper twice removed from the royal line by bastardry.

However it may be that earlier kings adopted numbering. Now where could we check that?

 

[Fat Red]

Don't know Cyclops, but don't worry about my answer, I was just guessing based on who was the first king to use the name of a previous one (Harold) and the first post-1066 king to do the same thing.