Where it went wrong

[Snoop Dog]

Notwithstanding its the first round and not much can be drawn from 1 game but its pretty clear to me where we are going wrong;

1. Game Plan

Crawford and Hird have alluded to our style being archaic. MM justifies it by saying its a final footy style. Reality is that its not a style that gets you top 4 and if you dont attain that then playing finals is just for fun. Crawford's right - we play into the good sides game plan. I was so excited at the start of the season bc I saw a new game plan vs WCE but its gone out the door. Its why lesser sides beat us - they take us on. Carlton and North particularly.

2. Our midfield group

Nothings really changed here - they are not as hard it as some of their counterparts and our barometer is Swan. He is the only one that hurts the opposition. maybe Davis. Pendles gets a lot behind the ball but rarely punishes them....ditto OBree. We need a hard in and under mid that will win us the ball.. When maxy went in yesterday he hurt them in the middle. We need more of that. Getting #3, Steele and Beams in is crucial for mine.

3. Our skills

MM bangs on about not accepting the skills being sub-standard. Well he picked Johnson and Toovey and they were two of the central figures in the skills problem. Again mcCarthy, Steele and beams are integral to this.

4. Toughness

We dont have it like other clubs. A lot of our blokes stand on the edge of the contest or dont go when they need to. You saw Didak and others dodge contests yesterday and thats not good enough. Dare I say it but the same 3 blokes offer this.

 

[loki04]

Notwithstanding its the first round and not much can be drawn from 1 game but its pretty clear to me where we are going wrong;

1. Game Plan

Crawford and Hird have alluded to our style being archaic. MM justifies it by saying its a final footy style. Reality is that its not a style that gets you top 4 and if you dont attain that then playing finals is just for fun. Crawford's right - we play into the good sides game plan. I was so excited at the start of the season bc I saw a new game plan vs WCE but its gone out the door. Its why lesser sides beat us - they take us on. Carlton and North particularly.

2. Our midfield group

Nothings really changed here - they are not as hard it as some of their counterparts and our barometer is Swan. He is the only one that hurts the opposition. maybe Davis. Pendles gets a lot behind the ball but rarely punishes them....ditto OBree. We need a hard in and under mid that will win us the ball.. When maxy went in yesterday he hurt them in the middle. We need more of that. Getting #3, Steele and Beams in is crucial for mine.

3. Our skills

MM bangs on about not accepting the skills being sub-standard. Well he picked Johnson and Toovey and they were two of the central figures in the skills problem. Again mcCarthy, Steele and beams are integral to this.

4. Toughness

We dont have it like other clubs. A lot of our blokes stand on the edge of the contest or dont go when they need to. You saw Didak and others dodge contests yesterday and thats not good enough. Dare I say it but the same 3 blokes offer this.

Agree with most except that.

He threw his weight around but barely touched the footy and the few times he did he made poor decisions and turned it over we need someone who can do both, he spent the entire 1st half on the ball this includes the 1st quarter pantsing.

Pendles started on the bench in the 1st q then when he came on took a bit to get into it by the end of the quarter he got a few clearences and set up our 2nd goal, he came out in the 2nd and followed on. He brought swan, clarke and thomas into the game then we got back into it.

 

[RRRooocccaaa]

1. Game Plan

Crawford and Hird have alluded to our style being archaic. MM justifies it by saying its a final footy style. Reality is that its not a style that gets you top 4 and if you dont attain that then playing finals is just for fun. Crawford's right - we play into the good sides game plan. I was so excited at the start of the season bc I saw a new game plan vs WCE but its gone out the door. Its why lesser sides beat us - they take us on. Carlton and North particularly.

I don't think it has so much to do with being 'archaic' - I think poorly executed is more the key here. If our game style requires us to go around the wings and then drive into the 'launch pad', we need to take our opportunities better when it gets there.

Everyone's buzzing about the 'zone' and how to beat it, when the reality is that speed is the key. Kicking the ball quickly, accurately and to an opportunity to run is the key, and our wing-based approach lets us do that.

Where we get let down currently is being caught between the 'zone' (i.e. flooding) and confidence. Yes, we used to bomb it to Rocca/Tarrant and we'd be fairly sure we'd either get a strong pack mark, or there'd be enough of a contest to allow our crumbers to take effect. Nowadays those same crumbers are the ones driving from the midfield, and our forwards are more likely to be grabbing those marks as a one-on-one on the 50m arc. Because they're knackered from running all day, we're not getting those shots on target, or we're trying to pinpoint a pass closer to goal when we've allowed the opposition to run back and fill the space. Then the some 'old story happens - our crumbers are further out from goal and the defenders can create a quick chain or handballs/short passes to drive out again.

I personally think we should be playing 'Zone Offence'. Stick man-on-man defensively, but leave 3 mids and 2 forwards up the ground at all time. If a turnover occurs, don't panic and flood back, but allow our create backline (Cox, Shaw, O'Brien, Clarke) to win the ball and put on a turn of speed. If we have our wingers ready to run (Swan, Didak, Davis, Lockyer) and deliver to a more evenly-matched contest then we're in with a chance.

Cloke is slowly but surely being strangled as a CHF and losing his effectiveness from the '07 campaign. He's always forcing a contest and providing a great lead-up target but there's no-one around to feed off to or to knock to the advantage of when he's being passed to.

I still think all the 'new' gameplans means little on the day. Geelong were beaten by hard-at-it one-on-one football twice last year. Collingwood and Hawthorn.

Rather than try to emulate their gameplan by turning our players into something they're not, we should be imposing our OWN gameplan upon other teams and exposing their weaknesses. Sounds far-fetched now, but with some commitment and belief we could turn it around to our advantage pretty quickly.

2c.

 

[deck]

1. Game Plan

Crawford and Hird have alluded to our style being archaic. MM justifies it by saying its a final footy style. Reality is that its not a style that gets you top 4 and if you dont attain that then playing finals is just for fun. Crawford's right - we play into the good sides game plan. I was so excited at the start of the season bc I saw a new game plan vs WCE but its gone out the door. Its why lesser sides beat us - they take us on. Carlton and North particularly.

This I can not agree on. We used the handball at all cost game plan through out the NAB Cup. It was successful when playing the ordinary teams like Richmond, West Coast and Essendon. When we played teams who set up the zone we failed miserably and looked second rate.

Our first quarter yesterday was marred by handball after handball with players running around in circles and constantly putting players unnecessarily under pressure with poor handball options.

After quarter time we went back to the plan we know and used the ball by foot. No coincidence that we played our better footy after quarter time.

 

[mattys123]

Where it went wrong;

1. Selection;
Johnson, Reid, Goldsack were all selected, and all they gave us was headaches. Surely Dayne Beams is a better option then Johnson, Adelaide's kids proved that.

2. 1st Quarter;
Our intensity was poor, our execution sloppy, and our matchups were terrible

3. 15 min mark, 3rd quarter
3 goals up, on fire, and Adelaide implement their zone. It was their zone, they have done it to us before (2 years ago at the Dome). We had no idea how to play it, from the players to the coaches.

4. Tyson Edwards holding the man free
He dropped the ball while being tackled (used to be holding the ball), got the free, lead to a goal. Only free kick that had an impact on the game.

5. Last quarter
25 mins to kick a goal, really. This is where we lost the game, for the first 15 mins of that quarter, we attacked, without having a serious shot at goal, this has to be rectified or we will lose like this again.

6. last 2 mins.
After all was said and done, Pendles kicked a goal with 130 secs on the countdown clock. Plenty of time for 2 more shots, we had one, a MEdhurst shot from 55. Once again, we didnt man up, didnt play accountable footy, and a turnover on half forward allowed the crows to run into their forward line, siren, loss.

 

[Pie eyed]

I don't think being brought back to earth will hurt the playing group this early.
It may be what they need to concentrate on the game at hand instead of a perceived flag tilt.

 

[Dave The Man]

Notwithstanding its the first round and not much can be drawn from 1 game but its pretty clear to me where we are going wrong;

1. Game Plan

Crawford and Hird have alluded to our style being archaic. MM justifies it by saying its a final footy style. Reality is that its not a style that gets you top 4 and if you dont attain that then playing finals is just for fun. Crawford's right - we play into the good sides game plan. I was so excited at the start of the season bc I saw a new game plan vs WCE but its gone out the door. Its why lesser sides beat us - they take us on. Carlton and North particularly.

2. Our midfield group

Nothings really changed here - they are not as hard it as some of their counterparts and our barometer is Swan. He is the only one that hurts the opposition. maybe Davis. Pendles gets a lot behind the ball but rarely punishes them....ditto OBree. We need a hard in and under mid that will win us the ball.. When maxy went in yesterday he hurt them in the middle. We need more of that. Getting #3, Steele and Beams in is crucial for mine.

3. Our skills

MM bangs on about not accepting the skills being sub-standard. Well he picked Johnson and Toovey and they were two of the central figures in the skills problem. Again mcCarthy, Steele and beams are integral to this.

4. Toughness

We dont have it like other clubs. A lot of our blokes stand on the edge of the contest or dont go when they need to. You saw Didak and others dodge contests yesterday and thats not good enough. Dare I say it but the same 3 blokes offer this.

Agree and I think coaches are working MM plan out.

Agree with Skills while we have great skills mids in the 2nds in McCarthy,Beams and Steele and He plays lousy kicks in BJ and Toovey

Agree we have Toughness we have to many soft players like as you say with Dids. The players in the VFL are tougher then the AFL Players. That's why it was great to see Breams and Steele put there head over the footy and show that toughness

 

[King Woodie]

Where it went wrong;

1. Selection;
Johnson, Reid, Goldsack were all selected, and all they gave us was headaches. Surely Dayne Beams is a better option then Johnson, Adelaide's kids proved that.

2. 1st Quarter;
Our intensity was poor, our execution sloppy, and our matchups were terrible

3. 15 min mark, 3rd quarter
3 goals up, on fire, and Adelaide implement their zone. It was their zone, they have done it to us before (2 years ago at the Dome). We had no idea how to play it, from the players to the coaches.

4. Tyson Edwards holding the man free
He dropped the ball while being tackled (used to be holding the ball), got the free, lead to a goal. Only free kick that had an impact on the game.

5. Last quarter
25 mins to kick a goal, really. This is where we lost the game, for the first 15 mins of that quarter, we attacked, without having a serious shot at goal, this has to be rectified or we will lose like this again.

6. last 2 mins.
After all was said and done, Pendles kicked a goal with 130 secs on the countdown clock. Plenty of time for 2 more shots, we had one, a MEdhurst shot from 55. Once again, we didnt man up, didnt play accountable footy, and a turnover on half forward allowed the crows to run into their forward line, siren, loss.

How did the kids of some other club prove that Beams was a better selection than Johnson. Ridiculous. For what it is worth, I would have preferred to have seen Beams as well, but I don't think he would have necessarily made the difference.

We lost it ourselves. We made a lot of terrible mistakes in the last quarter and last part of the third quarter when we should have won it.

Anthony passing when he was 50 out directly in front.
Swan fumbling running into an open goal.
Pendles missing a set shot 40 out directly in front.
Medders running at goal inside 50 in the third, and passing directly to an Adelaide player. They take the ball up and kick a goal.


Add that to not shutting down McLeod (wtf?) who was brilliant.

Not the end of the world, but we have much to work on. We need Rocca back.

 

[FIGJAM]

So to summarise, what could go wrong, did go wrong.

Amazed that we were so close in retrospect!

 

[Pedro]

We lost it ourselves. We made a lot of terrible mistakes in the last quarter and last part of the third quarter when we should have won it.

Anthony passing when he was 50 out directly in front.
Swan fumbling running into an open goal.
Pendles missing a set shot 40 out directly in front.
Medders running at goal inside 50 in the third, and passing directly to an Adelaide player. They take the ball up and kick a goal.


Add that to not shutting down McLeod (wtf?) who was brilliant.

Not the end of the world, but we have much to work on. We need Rocca back.

Bang on. The Edwards free kick leading directly to a goal was crucial also. Seems like everyone at the ground could see it except the umpire

 

[Optimax]

This I can not agree on. We used the handball at all cost game plan through out the NAB Cup. It was successful when playing the ordinary teams like Richmond, West Coast and Essendon. When we played teams who set up the zone we failed miserably and looked second rate.

Our first quarter yesterday was marred by handball after handball with players running around in circles and constantly putting players unnecessarily under pressure with poor handball options.

After quarter time we went back to the plan we know and used the ball by foot. No coincidence that we played our better footy after quarter time.

What he said

 

[goalpie]

Reid was doing well down at CHB during the preseason so he was played as a forward. Doesnt make alot of sence to me.

Davis in a forward pocket, those days are gone.

Usual start of the season small forward line, I feel sorry for Cloke.

Lack of heart, about time some people around the club came back to earth.

 

[Optimax]

Reid was doing well down at CHB during the preseason so he was played as a forward. Doesnt make alot of sence to me.
reid played both forward and back in preseason, as he did yesterday. He did neither well
Davis in a forward pocket, those days are gone.
Davis has been sick all week, did spend time in the middle yesterday.
Usual start of the season small forward line, I feel sorry for Cloke.
You just said we had reid up forward, and i also know Anthony was up there plus Trav 3 talls. We weren't to know reid would go all lazy dopey bastard as soon as the words NAB cup were removed
Lack of heart, about time some people around the club came back to earth.

Hang on, my answers in bold

 

[The Dan Fan]

the whole first quater and the pressure on us must have been huge because the disposal was bad, some of our players would fumble uncharacteristicly (didak) and our endurance didn't help i remember in the dying minutest two terrible possesions when we had the ball due to how tired we were.

 

[half_back_flank]

what went wrong??? MM let Johnson cross that white line...

 

[buzzbuzz]

Mick Malthouse, from an article on AFL.com.au:

Malthouse defended his decision to allow veteran Crow Andrew McLeod to run virtually unopposed for the majority of the game.

"Sometimes you only relay the problems from one player to the next," he said.

"It certainly wasn't designed that McLeod had 30 possessions. They look for that player, and if you tag that player, (Simon) Goodwin gets out. If you tag him, (Nathan) Bock gets out.

"It may well be better to close one down, two down or three down but then you're almost static in your forward line and you become a reactionary side.

"You have to be careful about overanalysing what one player gets."

So basically he's defending his decision to not play a man on Mcleod. He never had to 'tag' him, he just had to force the corresponding player (Medhurst? Davis? another Half Forward?) to actually be accountable, and when he did that in the second quarter it worked. Great double-talk there Mick...

 

[Krueger]

When I look back and compare some of the so called tough players who ran out on the ground on Saturday arvo to the likes of Millane, Banks, Kelly, T.Shaw, G. Brown, Monkhorst and co of yester year its easy to see why we lost.

Many of todays players have no presence and toughness about them at all.

 

[mdc]

"Sometimes you only relay the problems from one player to the next," he said.

"It certainly wasn't designed that McLeod had 30 possessions. They look for that player, and if you tag that player, (Simon) Goodwin gets out. If you tag him, (Nathan) Bock gets out.

"You have to be careful about overanalysing what one player gets."[/I]

This is mind-boggling on so many levels.

 

[kevind]

This is mind-boggling on so many levels.

A coach in denial?????

 

[FuManchu]

A coach in denial?????

A coach that has just admitted he hasnt got a plan or an answer for a player that has been playing like this for a dozen years!

You got to be kidding me MM!

Its laughable, in other words he has just said 'we know he's good, so we may as well admit defeat and let him be good and maybe we can curtail the other ones!'

pfft.

 

[Pie eyed]

A coach that has just admitted he hasnt got a plan or an answer for a player that has been playing like this for a dozen years!

You got to be kidding me MM!

Its laughable, in other words he has just said 'we know he's good, so we may as well admit defeat and let him be good and maybe we can curtail the other ones!'

pfft.

MM is not the only coach to "concede" a certain player possession in order to stem the tide in other areas. While I have never agreed with this "method" or tactic it is not unusual.
Persoanaly I would have thought McCleod would have been first on the list to be tagged or at least heavily defended.
The real issue comes after his obvious influence is noticed and nothing is done.
Leaving a change of tactic until the "horse has bolted" was the big error.
The 10 minute mark of the first quarter was when the gate was obviously ajar.

 

[BEEG]

We have never shown Mcleod any respect its a discrace

 

[PIES_09]

Guys, we have Melbourne next week, We still need to win but it could be a good confidence game.
Corrie- they picked him up wack him in the side, he might lighten up the midfield abit.
Beams- The kid showed alot of talent, in the NAB so i reckon bring him in because other clubs are playing there young guns.
Wood- Bring him in for Bryan his just a all round better player.
Rocca- heard he dominated in the VFL so won't be suprised if he plays this week, Get him in the team.
Thats what we missed this week..
thourghts???

 

[buzzbuzz]

If Rocca comes in, then maybe Wood can come in for Bryan. My reasoning is that Bryan has been one of the few big bodies around the ground for us but with Rocca back, we need less of that. Wood in because we need to win some hitouts, but really there's not too much difference between him and Bear in terms of effectiveness overall.

Corrie? No way. I rate Sidebottom and Stanley over him at this point, but I do agree that we need something in the midfield, even if it's just an extra man to rotate to keep Swanny, Pendles, Dids, Davis etc fresh and fit.

 

[daics cousin]

I think where we always get caught up on the rolling zone is that we if a turnover occurs we have no one in the forwrd line to at least contest the ball,we must instruct that at least 2 players to stay there all the time especially when ateam plays this rolling zone game.
Hawthorn do it all the time they have roughhead and Franklin who sit in their forward fifty permanately or they have a couple of players who always stay inside their 50 arc.