Which team list would you least want?

[Shueygod]

West Coast.

Within 12 months they've have lost their entire spine.

Barrass
McGovern
Darling
Allen

AA waterman unlucky not to feature.

This thread is an absolute all-timer. Some absolutely laughable calls mainly people preferring to be young than good.

For me it's a toss up between West Coast and Richmond. Both lists full of list cloggers. Some good young talent in both but miles to go to develop them and unless they all come good they'll need multiple drafts more of young talent to compete.

Could put Essendon in here too. If you could take out their ability to shoot themselves in the foot I'd comfortably take their list over West Coast and Richmond but that's a big if.

This in itself is a laughable call, would rather be in both those positions than a team like Collingwood/Carlton with enough older players to not bottom out but not good enough to compete.

 

[Footy Smarts]

AA waterman unlucky not to feature.

This in itself is a laughable call, would rather be in both those positions than a team like Collingwood/Carlton with enough older players to not bottom out but not good enough to compete.

Another classic case of it's better to be young than good.

Both Collingwood and Carlton have issues. But they've also got enough talent that competing for a flag in the next few years wouldn't be a massive shock if they do things right. An improved game plan, some smart recruits and a few players improving significantly and either could be in the hunt. Obviously given their history I'd back Collingwood to get it right over Carlton.

Richmond and West coast need 3 years of good recruiting and development just to get to that starting point.

 

[Bluelegs]

List I'd least want is West Coast. List I'd most want, Brisbane or Gold Coast.

 

[Dez!]

Another classic case of it's better to be young than good.

Both Collingwood and Carlton have issues. But they've also got enough talent that competing for a flag in the next few years wouldn't be a massive shock if they do things right. An improved game plan, some smart recruits and a few players improving significantly and either could be in the hunt. Obviously given their history I'd back Collingwood to get it right over Carlton.

Richmond and West coast need 3 years of good recruiting and development just to get to that starting point.

Collingwood or Carlton don't have enough talent to compete for a flag, Carlton have at least pivoted to change this with the Curnow trade.

Collingwood weren't good enough this year, are a year older and have no avenues to improve like those around them like Brisbane, Gold Coast, Sydney, GWS, Fremantle did.

 

[tiger_tough]

It's weird how ahead of themselves people are getting with Richmond.

After this draft West coast will have taken more early picks in recent years than Richmond. Reid and Ginbey are well ahead of any youngster Richmond has that was taken prior to last year's draft.

Basically if the 2024 draft ends up an unbelievable success Richmond will be ahead of West Coast. If not West Coast will be ahead of Richmond. In either case both look like they're miles back from the pack still.

Wut? Top 25 picks 2021-2025

2021 -
WCE 1
RFC 2

2022 -
WCE 3
RFC 0

2023 -
WCE 1
RFC 0

2024 -
WCE 1
RFC 6

2025 -
WCE 3
RFC 2

WCE total 9
RFC total 10

 

[tiger_tough]

Eagles comfortably right now. Pies not far behind.

 

[Forward Press]

It's weird how ahead of themselves people are getting with Richmond.

After this draft West coast will have taken more early picks in recent years than Richmond. Reid and Ginbey are well ahead of any youngster Richmond has that was taken prior to last year's draft.

Basically if the 2024 draft ends up an unbelievable success Richmond will be ahead of West Coast. If not West Coast will be ahead of Richmond. In either case both look like they're miles back from the pack still.

Credit to Richmond, they appear on their way based on 2024 results (at least compared to us anyway).

Early draft picks mean nothing if you cannot develop them properly, many of their debutants from that mega 2024 draft crop appear capable so far.

But yes, both of us are still miles back, but if I wasn't an Eagles supporter I'd prefer Richmond's list at the moment.

 

[Forward Press]

Wut? Top 25 picks 2021-2025

2021 -
WCE 1
RFC 2

2022 -
WCE 3
RFC 0

2023 -
WCE 1
RFC 0

2024 -
WCE 1
RFC 6

2025 -
WCE 3
RFC 2

WCE total 9
RFC total 10

Top 25 is quite arbitrary. If we go by the official AFL first round picks (which will vary obviously, up to a high of 29 in the 2023 draft)...

2021
WCE - 1
RIC - 2

2022
WCE - 2
RIC - 0

2023
WCE - 1
RIC - 0

2024
WCE - 1
RIC - 7

2025
WCE - 3
RIC - 2

Total of 8 for West Coast and 11 for Richmond.

The 2024 draft will make or break Richmond.

 

[tiger_tough]

Top 25 is quite arbitrary. If we go by the official AFL first round picks (which will vary obviously, up to a high of 29 in the 2023 draft)...

2021
WCE - 1
RIC - 2

2022
WCE - 2
RIC - 0

2023
WCE - 1
RIC - 0

2024
WCE - 1
RIC - 7

2025
WCE - 3
RIC - 2

Total of 8 for West Coast and 11 for Richmond.

The 2024 draft will make or break Richmond.

So far so good.

 

[Footy Smarts]

Wut? Top 25 picks 2021-2025

2021 -
WCE 1
RFC 2

2022 -
WCE 3
RFC 0

2023 -
WCE 1
RFC 0

2024 -
WCE 1
RFC 6

2025 -
WCE 3
RFC 2

WCE total 9
RFC total 10

I was taking top 30 picks since 2022. After this year it'll be 11-9 West Coast's way.

I'm not sure including 2021 when Brady Hough (2x top 5 in B&F) is easily the best player between the two teams really enhances the argument for Richmond.

Whatever. The difference is marginal either way. The idea that West Coast are miles behind Richmond in terms of high picks is simply false.

 

[tiger_tough]

I was taking top 30 picks since 2022. After this year it'll be 11-9 West Coast's way.

I'm not sure including 2021 when Brady Hough (2x top 5 in B&F) is easily the best player between the two teams really enhances the argument for Richmond.

Whatever. The difference is marginal either way. The idea that West Coast are miles behind Richmond in terms of high picks is simply false.

You were wrong, I just gave you the facts.

Lol Brady Hough. Finishing top 5 in a team that has just had the worst season on record isn't really something to hang your hat on. Tom Brown was rated higher this year and Sam Banks had a better season....

Keep shifting the goal posts, we know you hate Richmond

 

[Ambrosia]

Eagles comfortably right now. Pies not far behind.

Dons?

 

[tiger_tough]

Dons?

They're up there. Probably 3rd.

Things can change fast though.

 

[Philth]

Dons?

You're nowhere near as bad as this year suggests.
Plenty of good young and mid-age players.

 

[Footy Smarts]

Lol Brady Hough. Finishing top 5 in a team that has just had the worst season on record isn't really something to hang your hat on. Tom Brown was rated higher this year and Sam Banks had a better season....

Look at you getting all excited about the 1 more win you've had than West Coast over the past 2 seasons

Hough is a key player in a shit team (a shit team that won 3 more games than your shit team in 2024). That makes him miles better than Banks and Brown.

Banks improved this year. He's ok. Maybe he'll get to Hough's level.

Brown is a spud. He played twice as many games as a cooked Prestia and still was behind him in the B&F. He was behind a cooked Kamdyn McIntosh. How much clearer does it need to be?

 

[WillHayward]

West Coast.

Within 12 months they've lost their entire spine.

Barrass
McGovern
Darling
Allen

The spine that finished bottom in 2023?

Hardly a loss.

 

[Purple Suit]

Nah, no chance it’s currently WC. It’s far worse to be a mid table team unable to compete than a rebuilding team adding significant talent.

I think it's still WC as the club itself has lost all ability to develop players, it can't just be the recruiters picking the wrong kids all the time. The same thing happened to North and even Clarko can't fix it very fast. Maybe you have fixed it, but you are averaging 1 AFL standard (not A grade) player every season since 2014 that is still on your list. It's not enough to sustain a competitive side and you now struggle to recruit to fill the void.

What's the point of having more low draft picks if only 1 or 2 make it a season?

The hard thing is you can only see 3-4 years into the past, not if what you are doing now is working. It's starting to appear that it wasn't working in 2022 still, 2023 coming more into focus next year.

 

[kranky al]

You were wrong, I just gave you the facts.

Lol Brady Hough. Finishing top 5 in a team that has just had the worst season on record isn't really something to hang your hat on. Tom Brown was rated higher this year and Sam Banks had a better season....

Keep shifting the goal posts, we know you hate Richmond

It’s more that playing as a back he towels up superstars.

We may not have much atm but he’s a find and will get multiple aa

 

[voorhees]

coin toss between essendon and West coast.
and the win goes to essendon

 

[Shueygod]

I think it's still WC as the club itself has lost all ability to develop players, it can't just be the recruiters picking the wrong kids all the time. The same thing happened to North and even Clarko can't fix it very fast. Maybe you have fixed it, but you are averaging 1 AFL standard (not A grade) player every season since 2014 that is still on your list. It's not enough to sustain a competitive side and you now struggle to recruit to fill the void.

What's the point of having more low draft picks if only 1 or 2 make it a season?

The hard thing is you can only see 3-4 years into the past, not if what you are doing now is working. It's starting to appear that it wasn't working in 2022 still, 2023 coming more into focus next year.

In what way was it not working in 2024, considering we got at minimum 4 “AFL standard” prospects from that year?

 

[juss]

I like the way our list is coming together. Yes we have a long way to go but I can see it heading in the right direction and the way they're piecing it together.

West Coast probably have a bit further to go but they'll add in quality kids again and keep building.

We're both still some years away.

I think Melbourne are in trouble. Arguably their best player is a ruck at age 33, they've just lost some long time midfield stalwarts, and they haven't necessarily bottomed out recently to hit the draft hard. I think they're stuck in the middle a bit, and probably need to decline further before they can rise up again.

 

[schmuttt]

I like the way our list is coming together. Yes we have a long way to go but I can see it heading in the right direction and the way they're piecing it together.

West Coast probably have a bit further to go but they'll add in quality kids again and keep building.

We're both still some years away.

I think Melbourne are in trouble. Arguably their best player is a ruck at age 33, they've just lost some long time midfield stalwarts, and they haven't necessarily bottomed out recently to hit the draft hard. I think they're stuck in the middle a bit, and probably need to decline further before they can rise up again.

I think we are at ground zero, but we're starting a rebuild with a lot more young talent than most clubs do. We have the following guys under 25 that IMO have shown enough at AFL level to suggest they'll be solid role players at minimum.

Kozzy (Obviously is elite)
Rivers
Langford
Lindsay
Windsor
Turner
Bowey

We also have Van Rooyen who I think can be a solid B grader in the right system. Petty I've left out of this group as he turns 26 in a few weeks, but I think he is a solid AFL level key defender. We are also poised to add four more first round picks to this group over the next 15 months.

Agree with the view we'll be quite poor next year, I think you could make the argument there is probably 16 other clubs that should be finishing above us if you go off rebuild timelines. Losing Gawn is obviously a blow, but he is literally a club legend and hall of famer, of course we aren't going to just replace him. Thankfully the ruck position isn't really that impactful unless you have a generational guy, and aside from Gawn I think Jackson is the only other guy who feels like he could reach that level in the competition.

 

[Purple Suit]

In what way was it not working in 2024, considering we got at minimum 4 “AFL standard” prospects from that year?

I just explained that it’s too early to tell. The AFL is littered with players who show glimpses but never make it.

Noah Long is an example. He might turn it around but he has stalled badly after his first year.

 

[Mr Meow]

I like the way our list is coming together. Yes we have a long way to go but I can see it heading in the right direction and the way they're piecing it together.

West Coast probably have a bit further to go but they'll add in quality kids again and keep building.

We're both still some years away.

I think Melbourne are in trouble. Arguably their best player is a ruck at age 33, they've just lost some long time midfield stalwarts, and they haven't necessarily bottomed out recently to hit the draft hard. I think they're stuck in the middle a bit, and probably need to decline further before they can rise up again.

FB: Bowey McDonald Turner
HB: Rivers Lever Salem
C: Windsor Viney E.Langdon
HF: Chandler JVR Lindsey
FF: Melksham Mihocek Fritsch
R: Gawn H.Langford Pickett
IC: Steele Howes Jiath Petty Sharp

Bolded are the very experienced players who will need to be replaced in the next few years, but who will be useful for guiding the kids and maintaining competitiveness in the meantime.

From their 4x first round picks over the next 2 years ideally they'd find a KPD, KPF, midfielder and back flanker. The forward line needs further revamping with creative forward flankers. I'm sure they'll adapt to life with a B grade journeyman ruck if they have to.

 

[Piggy Smalls]

So far so good.

Could have been better. Murphy Reid was a Richmond supporter. Could end up being a big miss.