Analysis Why are we s**t?

[FartPants]

Good day, there is a reputable coach by the name of Alastair Clarkson available. We must headhunt immediately! This nonsense must not continue. Curly Sue and Geriatric Paul need to vacate. Kind regards, Fart Pants

 

[owen87]

Good day, there is a reputable coach by the name of Alastair Clarkson available. We must headhunt immediately! This nonsense must not continue. Curly Sue and Geriatric Paul need to vacate. Kind regards, Fart Pants

 

[calyam]

External reviews are mostly bullshit. We’re not an internally focused club. Mahoney, Rutten, Caracella, Giansiracusa, Tapping and Tudor are the senior football people. None of them are Essendon people, they’re all external people who’ve been brought in. We don’t need external people telling us how things need to be done - we’ve already hired a whole bunch of them to do the job.

If they fail so be it, but not ready to call that yet.

Here's the problem with that: we need an external review of the entire club and while the football department may be filled with experienced non-Essendon people that obviously isn't true across the entire club. The Essendon football club, collectively, is poorly run and that filters down to every department and function, including the football department.

We have problems on field. We have problems with recruitment and development. We have problems off-field.

This thread poses the question 'Why are we s**t?' and the answer isn't one single thing. There is no silver bullet that corrects this. It's everything. Essendon is s**t because at every level of the organisation there are issues. There is no single area where Essendon is an industry leader. There is no single area where other clubs are looking at us for innovation or insight. We are a third rate club, pretending to be a powerhouse, convinced we deserve premierships.

An external review - lead by leading industry figures both on-field and off-field - could help address that.

 

[Pat the Rat]

Could be a lot worse. Put yoyrselves in the shoes of any Roo supporter.They are gone both on and off the field. They couldn't even compete at VFL level the way they are going

 

[citizen-erased]

Here's the problem with that: we need an external review of the entire club and while the football department may be filled with experienced non-Essendon people that obviously isn't true across the entire club. The Essendon football club, collectively, is poorly run and that filters down to every department and function, including the football department.

We have problems on field. We have problems with recruitment and development. We have problems off-field.

This thread poses the question 'Why are we s**t?' and the answer isn't one single thing. There is no silver bullet that corrects this. It's everything. Essendon is s**t because at every level of the organisation there are issues. There is no single area where Essendon is an industry leader. There is no single area where other clubs are looking at us for innovation or insight. We are a third rate club, pretending to be a powerhouse, convinced we deserve premierships.

An external review - lead by leading industry figures both on-field and off-field - could help address that.

fair points.

it was a little disappointing the board went with Wellman over Mahoney to chair the review. I know it would appear odd to have your Football boss reviewing what he oversees, but Mahoney is exactly the person I'd hand the keys to and say point out what's not working and where it needs fixing....at the end of the day, if he has the freedom to call out the warts and all assessment of how we're structured and what he needs to fix it, I'd be comfortable acting on it.
Has a track record at the Dees, isn't wedded to a lot of the decision making around coaching/recruitment, etc. can't imagine he's got that many ties to board members/coterie groups.

 

[owen87]

fair points.

it was a little disappointing the board went with Wellman over Mahoney to chair the review. I know it would appear odd to have your Football boss reviewing what he oversees, but Mahoney is exactly the person I'd hand the keys to and say point out what's not working and where it needs fixing....at the end of the day, if he has the freedom to call out the warts and all assessment of how we're structured and what he needs to fix it, I'd be comfortable acting on it.
Has a track record at the Dees, isn't wedded to a lot of the decision making around coaching/recruitment, etc. can't imagine he's got that many ties to board members/coterie groups.

I assume Mahoney will have the opportunity to convey all those things to Wellman during the review process

 

[Lore]

Here's the problem with that: we need an external review of the entire club and while the football department may be filled with experienced non-Essendon people that obviously isn't true across the entire club. The Essendon football club, collectively, is poorly run and that filters down to every department and function, including the football department.

We have problems on field. We have problems with recruitment and development. We have problems off-field.

This thread poses the question 'Why are we s**t?' and the answer isn't one single thing. There is no silver bullet that corrects this. It's everything. Essendon is s**t because at every level of the organisation there are issues. There is no single area where Essendon is an industry leader. There is no single area where other clubs are looking at us for innovation or insight. We are a third rate club, pretending to be a powerhouse, convinced we deserve premierships.

An external review - lead by leading industry figures both on-field and off-field - could help address that.

I think more than this, the people at the top are not external people. And all the external people that we've brought in to help fix the problems have been manacled to the wrong things by the (not external) people that they report to.

e.g. Rutten is an external person, but he still reports to XC and the board and has lots of people trying to influence what he's doing. He's not in a position to tell powerful people to rack off (even though he definitely knows more than most of them).

 

[citizen-erased]

I assume Mahoney will have the opportunity to convey all those things to Wellman during the review process

it's a bit different to Mahoney as the captain of the review saying this isn't working. you need to change this.
Obviously the board can accept/reject. But at least it's in the review findings.

I guess my issue is long term Essendon people reviewing long term Essendon issues, many of which relate to other long term Essendon people.

Mahoney is less than 18m into his role. Has the rare benefit of already knowing a lot of the ins and outs of the club as well as not being in and of them himself to a large extent.
Ignores whether or not he's the issue. But at this point in time, I'd wager he isn't.

 

[owen87]

it's a bit different to Mahoney as the captain of the review saying this isn't working. you need to change this.
Obviously the board can accept/reject. But at least it's in the review findings.

I guess my issue is long term Essendon people reviewing long term Essendon issues, many of which relate to other long term Essendon people.

Mahoney is less than 18m into his role. Has the rare benefit of already knowing a lot of the ins and outs of the club as well as not being in and of them himself to a large extent.
Ignores whether or not he's the issue. But at this point in time, I'd wager he isn't.

Mahoney asking people who directly report to him to explain their issues isn't really a review though, maybe Mahoney is an issue (though I agree it's unlikely).

Wellman conducting it, incorporating Mahoney and others' feedback should capture all the issues.

Whether the board then bothers to act on it or buries it is the question.

 

[yodellinhank]

Could be a lot worse. Put yoyrselves in the shoes of any Roo supporter.They are gone both on and off the field. They couldn't even compete at VFL level the way they are going

1. There's no such thing as a Roo supporter, if there is I've certainly never met any
2. If we're at the point of comparing ourselves to that rabble who don't even belong in the league, then just work out how many cents in the dollar it'll cost to wind the whole thing up and call it quits.

 

[citizen-erased]

Mahoney asking people who directly report to him to explain their issues isn't really a review though, maybe Mahoney is an issue (though I agree it's unlikely).

Wellman conducting it, incorporating Mahoney and others' feedback should capture all the issues.

Whether the board then bothers to act on it or buries it is the question.

I guess the other part of my scepticism is whether the board is identified as the issue?

If not an external (and tbh I'm not sure we'e at that stage yet), a senior, relatively new comer with the pedigree of Mahoney would give me greater confidence in the process achieving something other than optics.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Here's the problem with that: we need an external review of the entire club and while the football department may be filled with experienced non-Essendon people that obviously isn't true across the entire club. The Essendon football club, collectively, is poorly run and that filters down to every department and function, including the football department.

We have problems on field. We have problems with recruitment and development. We have problems off-field.

This thread poses the question 'Why are we s**t?' and the answer isn't one single thing. There is no silver bullet that corrects this. It's everything. Essendon is s**t because at every level of the organisation there are issues. There is no single area where Essendon is an industry leader. There is no single area where other clubs are looking at us for innovation or insight. We are a third rate club, pretending to be a powerhouse, convinced we deserve premierships.

An external review - lead by leading industry figures both on-field and off-field - could help address that.

But really, we don't know that.

Nobody was saying this three months ago. We lose a few games and everybody wants to set fire to the whole joint.

I could easily counter that our club is in INCREDIBLY good shape for one that went through by far the biggest and most drawn-out shitstorm in the history of professional sport in Australia just a few years ago. Off the field an AFL club is a corporate entity and that stuff rocks the foundations of the place.

What is clear is we're having a very poor season so far on-field. Do all the current football people need to be shipped out, or are we simply a young, rebuilding team that needs to work thru this and are these experienced football people with external success at multiple other clubs capable of doing that successfully?

Everything else is pretty much just supposition.

 

[citizen-erased]

But really, we don't know that.

Nobody was saying this three months ago. We lose a few games and everybody wants to set fire to the whole joint.

I could easily counter that our club is in INCREDIBLY good shape for one that went through by far the biggest and most drawn-out shitstorm in the history of professional sport in Australia just a few years ago. Off the field an AFL club is a corporate entity and that stuff rocks the foundations of the place.

What is clear is we're having a very poor season so far on-field. Do all the current football people need to be shipped out, or are we simply a young, rebuilding team that needs to work thru this and are these experienced football people with external success at multiple other clubs capable of doing that successfully?

Everything else is pretty much just supposition.

I'd tend to agree on a couple of fronts

I think the coaching setup is good.
I think the recent recruiting has shown a material change in understanding how to put a modern team together. Whether that continues remains to be seen.
The development of the AFLW/VFLW has been impressive too for something that came into the league so late.

things I'd like to see change is largely at the leadership level. I think Brasher finishing up his board tenure will be important. I'd like to see the next president come externally & to see them appoint their own CEO. I don't hold my breathe.

Fitness & medical seems to be an achilles of late. I think that's one area where development and the age of the group isn't necessarily a factor, as injuries, recoveries and recurrences seem to impact across all age groups.

List wise, we have needs. our key backs are young and underdeveloped. As a result we're playing guys out of position in defence (Ridley/Laverde) or overly reliant on too few up forward (Wright, Stringer). Add to that a still rather raw #1 ruck and the lack of sizeable mids and there's a bit to fix.
But it's not a blow it up and start again proposition. In fact some smart and savvy recruiting in the next 2 off-seasons can make us imo.

Patience of the sort not common with Essendon is going to be required.

 

[FartPants]

fair points.

it was a little disappointing the board went with Wellman over Mahoney to chair the review. I know it would appear odd to have your Football boss reviewing what he oversees, but Mahoney is exactly the person I'd hand the keys to and say point out what's not working and where it needs fixing....at the end of the day, if he has the freedom to call out the warts and all assessment of how we're structured and what he needs to fix it, I'd be comfortable acting on it.
Has a track record at the Dees, isn't wedded to a lot of the decision making around coaching/recruitment, etc. can't imagine he's got that many ties to board members/coterie groups.

General manager of football is Mahoney's job and if he's not already pointing out things that need improving, that's a problem. What is also a problem is the club reviewing itself. It needs an independent viewpoint, best practices and industry standards from experts outside the Essendon bubble. This Essendon bubble is the problem!
Also, Mahoney's record at Melbourne wasn't the greatest, so much so that he was demoted during his time there. It speaks volumes that they went on to win a premiership after he left.

A guy like Clarkson has the ability to identify and address a lot of the onfield issues at Essendon, not just the coaching side of things. Other Essendon legends should be joining Lloyd in pushing for change.

Regards
Fart Pants

 

[Bunk Moreland]

General manager of football is Mahoney's job and if he's not already pointing out things that need improving, that's a problem. What is also a problem is the club reviewing itself. It needs an independent viewpoint, best practices and industry standards from experts outside the Essendon bubble. This Essendon bubble is the problem!
Also, Mahoney's record at Melbourne wasn't the greatest, so much so that he was demoted during his time there. It speaks volumes that they went on to win a premiership after he left.

A guy like Clarkson has the ability to identify and address a lot of the onfield issues at Essendon, not just the coaching side of things. Other Essendon legends should be joining Lloyd in pushing for change.

Regards
Fart Pants

We decided there was an issue with footy. We sacked Richardson and headhunted Mahoney.

What now? Oh here’s somebody to tell you what to do.

I mean really, we need to let the bloke do his job. It takes time

 

[ant555]

We decided there was an issue with footy. We sacked Richardson and headhunted Mahoney.

What now? Oh here’s somebody to tell you what to do.

I mean really, we need to let the bloke do his job. It takes time

Agree.
On top of that as you previously mentioned we have assistants that have come in over the last 3 years from other clubs that have won premierships or been in Preliminary finals.
Pretty sure Tapping can give insights into how Brisbane developed their list and is in his first season with us in the same way that Gia who is in his second year with us saw how the Dogs did it.
Caracella in his third year saw how it was done as a player (two flags) and then as a coach under Malthouse at Collingwood , then Geelong and Richmond. If he does not know what a successful system looks like then I doubt anyone does.
Even Truck has experience in good systems. They played finals in 7 years while he was at the crows and then obviously saw the build at the Tigers and was there when Dimma was in trouble in 2016 and how they turned that around.
Tudor was at the Saints under Lyon when they played in the Grand finals and was at Sydney in 2012.When he was at North they played finals as well.
Sean Murphy was at the Hawks during their 13-15 premiership era.
Mahoney was one of the key players in the Melbourne build.
When you look at it there is already a wealth of experience from other clubs that has joined us in the last 3 years.
I would say the only external review needed would be for the board and the unhealthy outside influence some parties outside the board have on running the club.

 

[Lore]

I would say the only external review needed would be for the board and the unhealthy outside influence some parties outside the board have on running the club.

And we have bingo

 

[Keystone agony]

Our game differential of experience to opposition this year is like -32 games per player. Makes it pretty bloody hard

We got a soft draw last year and this year have been given likely the hardest draw with a tonne of injuries and no continuity

Were end of 2024 before we should be expecting anything

Cliff came very quickly for Hurley, Heppell, Tippa and Dev

Constant injuries to Stringer, Mcgrath, Langford, Snelling, Dev, Cox, Tippa, Harry Jones and even Parish with little depth

Also think a very complacent/content offseason occured and we saw how bloody good sides go when theyre 5% off in a single game, let alone being 5% off the entire preseason

If you havnt got atleast 3 wins from the first 8 games the players lose belief and the seasons done, there then becomes nothing to play for. That 5% off turns into 10-15% off

Weve seen how freo have gone with getting a fit list minus Fyfe this year even after losing Cerra. Even though theyve been heavily over rated for most the year. Theyve improved significantly

The good thing is our current 17-22 players will end up being really good depth, which freo have developed from many injuries in the past 24 months. Thats a positive to take. Eventually surely we get a good run of injuries

What we need to explore/do in the last 8 weeks:

1) increase Francis value by playing him in AFL side for last 6 weeks and in a free roaming spare man role (4 of Reid, Brand, Ridley, Lav, Kelly might not work in the same side, let alone all of them)

2) When Mcgrath is back, see what Hind can do as a pressure forward

3) Find a non CBA role for Zerrett. On a flank for me. Junior role is always a good one to go back to

4) Play Brand for a good chunk. Love to see him on Buddy this week and rest Ridley

5) Hobbs to play purely as an inside mid. 70% CBAs alongside Parish, Shiel and Perkins as the main 4. Caldwell chopping in as the 5th with some HFF time. This maybe aligns when Mcgrath returns and Hind goes forward

 

[Lore]

Champion Data looks to have coughed up some defensive numbers for an AFL article this morning:

Dons' defensive downslide reaches record lows

Essendon's defence has come under severe scrutiny, with the Bombers conceding on average 94.8 points a game this season

www.afl.com.au

Cliff came very quickly for Hurley, Heppell, Tippa and Dev

Walla and Smith in particular a pretty big factor in our defensive pressure up the ground too I think (see article above).

 

[Dave]

Champion Data looks to have coughed up some defensive numbers for an AFL article this morning:

View attachment 1435486

Dons' defensive downslide reaches record lows

Essendon's defence has come under severe scrutiny, with the Bombers conceding on average 94.8 points a game this season

www.afl.com.au

Walla and Smith in particular a pretty big factor in our defensive pressure up the ground too I think (see article above).

So basically, apart from a couple of one off isolated metrics, we've been s**t defensively for five + years.

Shocked to be sitting here.

 

[Mikevk123]

We all knew this was coming after round 1

 

[Milanista28]

We all knew this was coming after round 1

Year was effectively over at qtr time of round 1.

 

[calyam]

Year was effectively over at qtr time of round 1.

I think I was looking up who were the best prospects in the draft at half-time. Don't think I've ever given up on a season faster.

 

[windyhill]

Yep, round 1, stinking ******* hot, cats written off. They ran absolute rings around us. Nic Martin, rising star ! ! Work that one out. On a side note, I drove in for that one and got a park right outside the cricketers arms, again, work that one out, that’s almost impossible.

 

[ScrappyCoCo]

Personally I think a lot has to do with us having success around 2000...then a period where those players finished up and we were in our cycle of being down for a period...followed by the years of Geelong and the Hawks dominating with the introduction of the 2 new teams and the talent pool strongly going their way. Followed by the Saga.

I grew up in the 70s and 80s and there were teams that were poor year in year out as well. And that was with 12 teams...not 18..or 20. These extended periods of failure for some clubs will continue and perhaps for longer. I know the draft order helps stop that to a degree but until there is a fair fixture I think it will continue into the future. And the amount of clubs makes it so much harder to get to the pointy end.

We are at a tipping point though I feel for Essendon...where we seemed to nailed some draft selections and if we can get another batch of very good young players coming after this season, we will get better. Not sure if it will give us the ultimate success but when we get enough games together into them...we will start winning more than we lose. We are going to have to be patient for a bit longer unfortunately.