Moved Thread Why does Richmond get destroyed by the umpires every week ?

[Art Vandelay_]

Everyone is just sick and tired of your whinging.
When the pandemic hit, the club complained to the AFL about goal umpiring decisions.
Supporters blame Steve Hocking's rule changes as the demise to their dynasty.
Supporters complain about other clubs having their own home ground & facilities.

+ The whinging over ARC because their player missed a goal.

Just imagine the outcry if Dustin Martin left during the middle of Richmond's premiership run for pick 19

Would also have been Hocking's fault somehow.

To answer the thread title. Probably because you're 2nd to the ball, ill disciplined or have improper technique to football fundamentals.

 

[HairyO]

+ The whinging over ARC because their player missed a goal.

Yep, ARC was the issue when Lynch missed from 5m out.

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

so you can honestly say Sicily wasnt getting his hands in Jacks back to take marks and no calls made for push in back yet the reverse happens later in second half it was called a push in the back against jack an dnot to mention the rag dolling later in last quater??

Strange comment. Sicily wasn't playing in the game I was talking about. Funny you think every other team gets all the free kicks they deserve expect Richmond

 

[smasha]

7 years and counting.

 

[Elmer_Judd]

7 years and counting.

I would go back further than that

Since 1908

#

 

[bzparkes]

I remember a game a couple ofnyears ago where WCE played Richmond at the 'G.

I believe they lost the free kick count but got 7 free kicks in forward 50, all goals, and half of them were incredibly dodgy.

Meanwhile, their fans pissed on about how they lost the count, yet WCE didn't get a single free kick inside 50, including one where Jamie Cripps

15

Jamie Cripps

Age

32

Ht

184cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.7

3star

K

7.9

3star

HB

4.8

3star

M

3.6

4star

T

3.9

5star

G

1.3

5star

D

10.3

3star

K

6.3

3star

HB

4.0

3star

M

2.4

3star

T

2.4

3star

G

0.4

3star

D

6.4

2star

K

4.2

2star

HB

2.2

2star

M

1.0

1star

T

2.4

4star

G

1.4

5star

was mauled in the goalsquare, with the ball nowhere near him, and it wasn't paid. Commentators couldn't believe it.

TLDR: Richmond supporters need to shut the * up, because they are coached to give away frees to hold up the game and are very well looked after in forward 50.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

I remember a game a couple ofnyears ago where WCE played Richmond at the 'G.

I believe they lost the free kick count but got 7 free kicks in forward 50, all goals, and half of them were incredibly dodgy.

Meanwhile, their fans pissed on about how they lost the count, yet WCE didn't get a single free kick inside 50, including one where Jamie Cripps was mauled in the goalsquare, with the ball nowhere near him, and it wasn't paid. Commentators couldn't believe it.

TLDR: Richmond supporters need to shut the * up, because they are coached to give away frees to hold up the game and are very well looked after in forward 50.

This cannot be correct because half of 7 = 3.5 and you cannot get 3.5 free kicks.

But I love how you misremembering one match through Eagle eyes proves Richmond get very well looked after in forward 50.

Richmond's first forward on the list of free kicks received this year is Shai Bolton who sits 30th. But he plays half his time in the midfield. Our second player on this list is Marlion Pickett at 44th, who has also spent a fair bit of time in other positions. Jack Riewoldt has played 19 games this season, every minute of that as a forward, and he sits about 80th amongst all AFL forwards for free kicks received. He would likely be top 20 for games played. Riewoldt sits 48th in the AFL amongst Key Forwards for free kicks per game played in 2023. Just ahead of Lynch who sits 53rd. Only 75 players have played key forward in the AFL in 2023. So your statement Richmond are very well looked after in forward 50 is demonstrably wrong.

Eagles in 2023 have 4 of the top 24 Key Forwards in the free kicks per game could, Allen 6th, Maric 13th, Jamison 19th, Darling 24th. Richmond have none of the top 47!

 

[Meteoric Rise]

This is pretty funny. Richmond were roughly mid table on free kick differential for 2023 when Hardwick resigned after the Essendon match in Rd 10. This was a total shock to Richmond supporters that we had some sort of normal free kick count roughly half way through the season.

McQualter took over as coach in rd 11. 11 matches since. Anybody out there care to hazard a guess how many times Richmond have lost the free kick count in those 11 matches?

Answers need to be realistic because a team for example would only be a roughly 0.015% or 1.5 in ten thousand chance to lose the free kick count in the whole 11 matches in succession.

So how many out of 11 could Richmond have lost since Mini McQualter took over as coach?

 

[Lsta062]

The thing that gets me is that you non-Richmond supporters would also melt like us if your team was adjudicated the way we’re adjudicated. My Essendon-supporting brother was watching the game with me and even he said that he hasn’t seen other sides get adjudicated the way we do.

In today’s game for example, the umpires had no hesitation paying St Kilda multiple free kicks in front of goal. For us though, they did not pay free kicks to Bauer, Riewoldt, Broad, and Bolton despite all being infringed upon inside 50. They in fact rarely pay them for us from what I’ve seen.

I’m not dumb and can see that we’re overall an undisciplined side, but what’s happening now has gone way beyond indiscipline. The amount of times opposition players infringe and don’t concede a free kick is astounding to me. We should be getting way more free kicks than we’re getting now.

 

[bzparkes]

The thing that gets me is that you non-Richmond supporters would also melt like us if your team was adjudicated the way we’re adjudicated. My Essendon-supporting brother was watching the game with me and even he said that he hasn’t seen other sides get adjudicated the way we do.

That was a sympathy vote.

In today’s game for example, the umpires had no hesitation paying St Kilda multiple free kicks in front of goal. For us though, they did not pay free kicks to Bauer, Riewoldt, Broad, and Bolton despite all being infringed upon inside 50. They in fact rarely pay them for us from what I’ve seen.

Every team's supporters thinks this. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, I specifically recall a game WCE played vs Richmond(Marvel?) where they got 7 shots on goal from mostly dodgy frees and converted them all, yet our forwards were getting mauled, with the ball nowhere near them, up the other end and didn't receive a single free kick.

Not all free kicks are equal.

I’m not dumb and can see that we’re overall an undisciplined side, but what’s happening now has gone way beyond indiscipline. The amount of times opposition players infringe and don’t concede a free kick is astounding to me. We should be getting way more free kicks than we’re getting now.

Umpires are s**t and supporters are biased. That's all there is to it.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

The thing that gets me is that you non-Richmond supporters would also melt like us if your team was adjudicated the way we’re adjudicated. My Essendon-supporting brother was watching the game with me and even he said that he hasn’t seen other sides get adjudicated the way we do.

In today’s game for example, the umpires had no hesitation paying St Kilda multiple free kicks in front of goal. For us though, they did not pay free kicks to Bauer, Riewoldt, Broad, and Bolton despite all being infringed upon inside 50. They in fact rarely pay them for us from what I’ve seen.

I’m not dumb and can see that we’re overall an undisciplined side, but what’s happening now has gone way beyond indiscipline. The amount of times opposition players infringe and don’t concede a free kick is astounding to me. We should be getting way more free kicks than we’re getting now.

It is an absolute fact that in 2023 that teams playing anyone bar Richmond under McQualter commit 50% more infringements than they do against Richmond under McQualter.

Astonishing coincidence.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

That was a sympathy vote.



Every team's supporters thinks this. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, I specifically recall a game WCE played vs Richmond(Marvel?) where they got 7 shots on goal from mostly dodgy frees and converted them all, yet our forwards were getting mauled, with the ball nowhere near them, up the other end and didn't receive a single free kick.

Not all free kicks are equal.



Umpires are s**t and supporters are biased. That's all there is to it.

How do you explain Richmond's average of 13 free kicks for over the 11 games since McQualter took over, versus the AFL median of 19.4 free kicks for in 2023?

 

[bzparkes]

How do you explain Richmond's average of 13 free kicks for over the 11 games since McQualter took over, versus the AFL median of 19.4 free kicks for in 2023?

Dunno, I've barely watched any Richmond games since McQualter took over.

I imagine that being a different coach than Hardwick, he's implemented different changes/directives for the players to follow.

For starters, I'd suggest looking at the contested stats and seeing if they differ from when Hardwick was coach. That'd be a good start.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Dunno, I've barely watched any Richmond games since McQualter took over.

I imagine that being a different coach than Hardwick, he's implemented different changes/directives for the players to follow.

For starters, I'd suggest looking at the contested stats and seeing if they differ from when Hardwick was coach. That'd be a good start.

Me looking at contested stats is going to explain why teams infringe against each other 50% more than they do against Richmond in the 11 matches under McQualter?

 

[bzparkes]

Me looking at contested stats is going to explain why teams infringe against each other 50% more than they do against Richmond in the 11 matches under McQualter?

Yes.

Want me to type it out for you again, or are you too lazy to actually research if there's been a difference in the way your team approaches contested ball situations?

Or do you want me to just scream that there's some great conspiracy against Richmond, like your supporters seem to revel in?

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Yes.

Want me to type it out for you again, or are you too lazy to actually research if there's been a difference in the way your team approaches contested ball situations?

Or do you want me to just scream that there's some great conspiracy against Richmond, like your supporters seem to revel in?

Ok oracle, Tigers average 134 contested possessions per game in the last 11 matches under McQualter.

So when teams play teams other than Richmond under McQualter they concede 2% more contested possessions on average, but their infringements rise by 50% on average.

Next step?

 

[bzparkes]

Ok oracle, Tigers average 134 contested possessions per game in the last 11 matches under McQualter.

So when teams play teams other than Richmond under McQualter they concede 2% more contested possessions on average, but their infringements rise by 50% on average.

Next step?

Great.

So what did they average under Hardwick this year?

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Great.

So what did they average under Hardwick this year?

Why is that relevant to the question of why teams infringe 50% more against anyone else other than Richmond under McQualter?

The answer is 139 by the way. The whole difference is the 5 less times the opposition infringes Richmond under McQualter than they infringed us under Hardwick in 2023. Incredible that. Our free kick reduce by 5 per game from 18 to 13, and our contested possessions reduce by 5 per game from 139 to 134. It seems Richmond is the one consistent part of this equation.

 

[bzparkes]

Why is that relevant to the question of why teams infringe 50% more against anyone else other than Richmond under McQualter?

The answer is 139 by the way.

Great.

Well, you're asking why teams infringe against 50% more against anyone else other than McQualter and he's the common denominator, obviously.

Any other discernible differences in the way the team's playing under him, as compared to Hardwick? There must be something.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Great.

Well, you're asking why teams infringe against 50% more against anyone else other than McQualter and he's the common denominator, obviously.

Any other discernible differences in the way the team's playing under him, as compared to Hardwick? There must be something.

There is certainly one discernible difference. The 5 times less per game the opposition infringes Richmond under McQualter compred to Hardwick in 2023.

2023

Richmond non-free kick contested possessions under Hardwick 121 per game. Free kick for 18 per game.

Richmond non-free kick contested possessions under McQualter 121 per game. Free kicks for 13 per game.

Next step?

It doesn't feel like we are getting any closer to figuring this the * out oracle, I thought you knew the answer....

 

[bzparkes]

There is certainly one discernible difference. The 5 times less per game the opposition infringes Richmond under McQualter compred to Hardwick in 2023.

2023

Richmond non-free kick contested possessions under Hardwick 121 per game. Free kick for 18 per game.

Richmond non-free kick contested possessions under McQualter 121 per game. Free kicks for 13 per game.

Next step?

It doesn't feel like we are getting any closer to figuring this the * out oracle, I thought you knew the answer....

No mate, I'm helping you troubleshoot this contentious issue.

Next step is analysing the free kicks themselves to see if there's any discernable difference in the adjudication between the ones paid under Hardwick's reign and the ones under McQualter.

Best to divide the free kicks into the same types (marking contests, holds, high-contact, etc) and then attempt to ascertain if you can determine any bias in regards to the umpires.

The best way to do this would be to watch Hardwick's last 3 games vs McQualter's first 3. Timestamp in one colour where every free kick is awarded to Richmond and timestamp every free you consider an obvious missed free in a different colour. Note the opposite team's frees in different colours. Don't concern yourself with 50/50 calls. Also note down which umpires awarded/missed which free kicks. Maybe make your timestamps for these ones in lime green, or you could colour code each umpire to make it easier upon review.

Ensure you tag the games with the umpire's names for easy review.

Then, we need to extrapolate all the free kicks from the games, attributed them to the umpires and determine which umpires pay which free kicks. You should be able to determine what kind of free kicks that were regularly paid under Hardwick and are being missed under McQualter, because you'll have listed them in the paid frees under Hardwick's review but they'll be listed as 'missed' under McQualter.

Using Excel, or Google Sheets, would be best for this.

You can then narrow it down to specific umpires, based on our earlier colour coding of the frees across games. Hopefully this will enable to to specifically identify which umpires have been paying less frees to Richmond under McQualter's tenure than under Hardwick's.

If 3 games either side of Hardwick standing down(6 total) is too few, expand it out to the full eleven games, either side(21 games in total). This'll give you a much larger sample size and thus, far more accurate data to work with.

Post the results here in a couple of weeks once you're done. I'm genuinely interested in the results.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

No mate, I'm helping you troubleshoot this contentious issue.

Next step is analysing the free kicks themselves to see if there's any discernable difference in the adjudication between the ones paid under Hardwick's reign and the ones under McQualter.

Best to divide the free kicks into the same types (marking contests, holds, high-contact, etc) and then attempt to ascertain if you can determine any bias in regards to the umpires.

The best way to do this would be to watch Hardwick's last 3 games vs McQualter's first 3. Timestamp in one colour where every free kick is awarded to Richmond and timestamp every free you consider an obvious missed free in a different colour. Note the opposite team's frees in different colours. Don't concern yourself with 50/50 calls. Also note down which umpires awarded/missed which free kicks. Maybe make your timestamps for these ones in lime green, or you could colour code each umpire to make it easier upon review.

Ensure you tag the games with the umpire's names for easy review.

Then, we need to extrapolate all the free kicks from the games, attributed them to the umpires and determine which umpires pay which free kicks. You should be able to determine what kind of free kicks that were regularly paid under Hardwick and are being missed under McQualter, because you'll have listed them in the paid frees under Hardwick's review but they'll be listed as 'missed' under McQualter.

Using Excel, or Google Sheets, would be best for this.

You can then narrow it down to specific umpires, based on our earlier colour coding of the frees across games. Hopefully this will enable to to specifically identify which umpires have been paying less frees to Richmond under McQualter's tenure than under Hardwick's.

If 3 games either side of Hardwick standing down(6 total) is too few, expand it out to the full eleven games, either side(21 games in total). This'll give you a much larger sample size and thus, far more accurate data to work with.

Post the results here in a couple of weeks once you're done. I'm genuinely interested in the results.

Sounds complicated bzp. You made it sound so simple before I confused you with some clear facts. I really mustn't do that.

I think what we can see is Richmond have stayed the same. You assure me there is no umpire bias at play, so the umpires have obviously stayed the same.

Which just leaves this amazing coincidence of 11 consecutive opponents infringing Richmond less than Richmond infringe them. I suppose 6,666 to 1 shots do win sometimes. Once every 6,667 times to be precise. And I guess it makes perfect sense teams would infringe each other 50% more than Richmond under McQualter, he seems way too inoffensive to want to infringe.

Quick heartfelt message to the often under-appreciated AFL, Gil, Dan Richardson, and the umpiring fraternity from all Richmond supports regarding the last 11 Richmond matches.

Gagf campaigners.

 

[bzparkes]

Sounds complicated bzp. You made it sound so simple before I confused you with some clear facts. I really mustn't do that.

I think what we can see is Richmond have stayed the same. You assure me there is no umpire bias at play, so the umpires have obviously stayed the same.

Which just leaves this amazing coincidence of 11 consecutive opponents infringing Richmond less than Richmond infringe them. I suppose 6,666 to 1 shots do win sometimes. Once every 6,667 times to be precise. And I guess it makes perfect sense teams would infringe each other 50% more than Richmond under McQualter, he seems way too inoffensive to want to infringe.

Quick heartfelt message to the often under-appreciated AFL, Gil, Dan Richardson, and the umpiring fraternity from all Richmond supports regarding the last 11 Richmond matches.

Gagf campaigners.

I haven't 'assured' you of anything.

I've simply stated that if you want to convince everyone there's some kind of Richmond-only AFL conspiracy/umpire bias, then you should be at least prepared to do as much as I've proposed so you have facts to back up your unsubstantiated claim.

Clearly you've indicated something's changed since McQualter took over. It's also up to you to determine what it is that's changed.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

I haven't 'assured' you of anything.

I've simply stated that if you want to convince everyone there's some kind of Richmond-only AFL conspiracy/umpire bias, then you should be at least prepared to do as much as I've proposed so you have facts to back up your unsubstantiated claim.

Clearly you've indicated something's changed since McQualter took over. It's also up to you to determine what it is that's changed.

Lol I need to substantiate my claim that Richmond have lost 11 from 11 free kick counts under McQualter? This is 6,666 to 1 chance of occurring.

And I need to substantiate that in 2023 teams infringe each other at a 50%(yes 50%) higher rate than teams infringe Richmond under McQualter?

I think I will let those irrefutable facts tell my story bzp, and you can do the substantiating for once. So far your substantiation is that to the astonishment of all readers on this forum, you recall one match 5 years ago where you wrongly believed Richmond were awarded 7 free kicks incorrectly.

 

[bzparkes]

Lol I need to substantiate my claim that Richmond have lost 11 from 11 free kick counts under McQualter? This is 6,666 to 1 chance of occurring.

And I need to substantiate that in 2023 teams infringe each other at a 50%(yes 50%) higher rate than teams infringe Richmond under McQualter?

I think I will let those irrefutable facts tell my story bzp, and you can do the substantiating for once. So far your substantiation is that to the astonishment of all readers on this forum, you recall one match 5 years ago where you wrongly believed Richmond were awarded 7 free kicks incorrectly.

No, I'm simply saying that if you actually want to substantiate any claims of bias, this would be a good method to follow, albeit time-consuming.

Feel free to escalate the issue to level 3 if it's beyond your capabilities however