Society/Culture Why I blame Islam for the fact it's raining today.... part 2

[Chief]

Reminder: This isn't the Israel/Hamas thread. Go to the Israel/Hamas thread if you want to talk about that. Thanks.

Mid East - Israel declare war after Hamas attack II

Part I: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/israel-declare-war-after-hamas-attack.1371828/page-47#post-81443295 Thread Rules: Alright. I recognise that this is a fraught topic for any number of you posting here. Some of you will have family in Israel or Palestine. Some of you will have...

www.bigfooty.com

Thread rules update:

From this point if you're going to make a connection between Islam and the crime rate, you need to demonstrate causation in your post. If you do not, I'm going to infract you for the inherent racism in the position you're taking.

 

[JayJ20]

Islamic State and Al Qaeda were constantly associated with the words Jihad or Jihadist.
I guess they broke the rules.

Not only did they break the rules, but if their members believe it is lawful to kill innocent people, suicide bomb and other strictly forbidden actions, then under Islamic Law, they would have blasphemed. They would no longer be considered Muslims.

Not only that, but any person who associates themselves with Islam and believes the above is lawful under Islamic Law would also no longer be Muslim no matter where they live in the world.

Besides, probably 99% of their victims are Muslims not only today, but dating as far back as the 18th century given their ideology comes from Muhammad Ibn Abdul Wahhab. That should be indicative of who they really are.

 

[JayJ20]

Peak Muslim groups condemn 'selective outrage' over Sydney nurses

A number of Muslim groups have signed an open letter condemning both the comments made by two Sydney nurses about treating Israeli patients, as well as the subsequent response.

www.abc.net.au

Predictable.

They're right. It's hypocritical. And as I said, they also don't agree with what the nurses said. Made it very clear.

Dual Israeli-Australian citizens can go to Gaza and kill kids when they serve in the IDF, then come back to their jobs and transition back into our society without being publicly named and investigated.

This is despite the war crimes committed by the Israeli government being brought before the ICJ + arrest warrants being issued to Netanyahu and Gallant by the ICC. Australia are Party to the Rome Statute yet didn't even sign a joint statement by 79 other parties supporting the ICC (including, France, Canada, Ireland, Belgium, Netherlands, Spain, Poland, Switzerland, UK etc) when the US issued an Executive Order to sanction the ICC for issuing arrest warrants.

Any outrage? Any calls for condemnation? Any apology? Remorse? Any mention of it by Dutton or Albanese? Nope. Hypocrites.

 

[ElectricG]

If you're anti-terrorism:

Take the Tommy Robinson poster off your wall and stop pushing his terrorist ideology - the same ideology shared by all terrorists - the other group is evil.

If you don't, you are a terrorist, playing your part to incite the growing plague of religious based violence and hatred inflicted on Islamic people - from Delhi to London to Detroit.

Like you, all other terrorists think they're telling the truth - they've got anecdotes of wrongdoing by individuals or groups within a huge population to prove it...And they've got hateful voices like yours to prove it even further.

Stop calling that person a terrorist lol that is ridiculous

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Stop calling that person a terrorist lol that is ridiculous

FBI is on a watch list. I've seen it.

 

[sr36]

Stop calling that person a terrorist lol that is ridiculous

Considering hima terrorist because he shares the same hate based religious perspective as indicted terrorists and tries to spread that view makes a damn site more sense than lumping the whole of Islam with hate based Islamic terrorism - even the vast majority of the 2 billion Muslims who are opposed ot the hate based views - doing the latter is what I'd call ridiculous. It's what you do.

It's a bit different when the shoe is on the other foot though isn't it. However, the reality is that the shoe fits you a damn site better than it fits the vast majority of Islam. You make hateful comments that are part of the spread of hate that leads to terrorism. And voices like yours and his in a western world of increasing violent words and actions directed towards innocent Muslim civilians are part of the terrorism.

 

[ElectricG]

Considering hima terrorist because he shares the same hate based religious perspective as indicted terrorists and tries to spread that view makes a damn site more sense than lumping the whole of Islam with hate based Islamic terrorism - even the vast majority of the 2 billion Muslims who are opposed ot the hate based views - doing the latter is what I'd call ridiculous. It's what you do.

It's a bit different when the shoe is on the other foot though isn't it. However, the reality is that the shoe fits you a damn site better than it fits the vast majority of Islam. You make hateful comments that are part of the spread of hate that leads to terrorism. And voices like yours and his in a western world of increasing violent words and actions directed towards innocent Muslim civilians are part of the terrorism.

Ahhh the old “being against terrorism is the real terrorism.” Again, the demented logic that only seems to exist around the topic of Islam.

 

[sr36]

Ahhh the old “being against terrorism is the real terrorism.” Again, the demented logic that only seems to exist around the topic of Islam.

You're obviously against Islamic terrorism and somehow blame all of Islam for it.

Are you against indicted terrorist Tommy Robinson? You just seem to be a voice for the major talking point that he and other anti-Islamic terrorist groups use to incite violence - Islam is bad - here's some examples of some negative things done or said by some of the two billion to prove it.

 

[ElectricG]

You're obviously against Islamic terrorism and somehow blame all of Islam for it.

Are you against indicted terrorist Tommy Robinson? You just seem to me to be a voice for the major talking point that he and other anti-Islamic terrorist groups use to incite violence - Islam is bad - here's some examples of some negative things done or saide by some of the two billion to prove it.

Without knowing a lot about him other than that he’s an anti-Islam activist and yobbo. If he is using violence, intimidation, harassment, etc to a political ends then of course I’m against him.

 

[sr36]

Without knowing a lot about him other than that he’s an anti-Islam activist and yobbo. If he is using violence, intimidation, harassment, etc to a political ends then of course I’m against him.

WHy "of course"? Many who spread the same message as you are into violence, intimidation nad harrassment directed towards Muslim communities and muslims in the community.

Do you understand that you're spreading the same message and can't actually support it with anything other than anecdotes and that that message will continue to see increases in violent words and actions being directed at Muslims as they go about every day activities? Do you understand that you're part of the problem of hate based violence, intimidation and harrassment - even if you stop short of doing those things yourself.

 

[ElectricG]

Do you understand that you're spreading the same message and can't actually support it with anything other than anecdotes and that that message will continue to see increases in violent words and actions being directed at Muslims as they go about every day activities? Do you understand that you're part of the problem of hate based violence, intimidation and harrassment - even if you stop short of doing those things yourself.

No. That’s stupid.

People are allowed to say they think a set of ideas or a religion is bad. Not everyone who dislikes Islam is Tommy Robinson. Don’t you think someone like Christopher Hitchens has a very different character to Tommy Robinson?

You could easily find some genuinely terrible people saying the same things about Islam that you do.

 

[sr36]

No. That’s stupid.

People are allowed to say they think a set of ideas or a religion is bad. Not everyone who dislikes Islam is Tommy Robinson. Don’t you think someone like Christopher Hitchens has a very different character to Tommy Robinson?

You could easily find some genuinely terrible people saying the same things about Islam that you do.

I don't know about Christopher Hitchens.

But I have read several very reasonable reasoned critiques of Islam that I don't disagree with - written by both Muslims and non-Muslims that are critical of several or even many aspects of the religion - but the whole entirety? How can you be? Kindness, hospitality, charity, forgiveness, equality, justice? Are you against those things? Are you against the huge numbers for whom those values are what Islam is about.

I'm more than happy to read reasoned, reasonable criticism of Islam. But you don't do that. You just say "Islam is bad" - look here's an example of a bad person who identifies as Islamic. That's your entire message.

A Wahabbi preacher who stands in front of a congragation and incites hate - doesn't actually tend to do the violence, intimidation or harrassment. Neither do most of those who follow and spread the hate. Same with Anti-Muslim preachers. Where's your line of terrorism - is the Wahabbi preacher a terrorist? Are those spreading his hate terrorists? Or is it just those directly involved with the killing?

What about if it's a non-Islamic terrorist group? Where is the line?

Actually - I know your line - it's ridiculous - it's the whole of Islam. It includes the countless individuals, imams and mosques that preach basically the same positive values that Christianity does, but wearing different clothes, in a different language and with different rituals. Yours is a prejudiced view.

 

[ElectricG]

Actually - I know your line - it's ridiculous - it's the whole of Islam. It includes the countless individuals, imams and mosques that preach basically the same positive values that Christianity does, but wearing different clothes, in a different language and with different rituals. Yours is a prejudiced views

The article I linked earlier. What can’t these leaders whole heartedly condemn those nurses? They pay some flaky lip service to doing that and then lash the public for being too upset about having genocidal lunatics in their health service and not sufficiently upset about a war on another continent. It is fair to assume that their statements are somewhat representative of their teachings.

I don’t think it’s the across-the-board benign influence that you do.

 

[sr36]

The article I linked earlier. What can’t these leaders whole heartedly condemn those nurses? They pay some flaky lip service to doing that and then lash the public for being too upset about having genocidal lunatics in their health service and not sufficiently upset about a war on another continent. It is fair to assume that their statements are somewhat representative of their teachings.

I don’t think it’s the across-the-board benign influence that you do.

Do you not understand that you can condemn the nurses hate filled comments, but also condemn the hate filled comments directed at Islam as the result of these nurse's comments. And also condemn the blatant prejudice of the media that makes two Islamic nurses making awful anti-Israeli comments a bigger story than actually committed atrocity.

Musk is backing an indicted anti-Islamic terrorist. Trump is advocating for ethnic cleansing of an Islamic community. There's a possible genocide occuring against a Muslim community. Anti Muslim riots in the uk. Anti-Islamic extremist groups are running for office all over Europe and getting heaps of votes. Islamophic hate crimes are sky-rocketing in both Australia and America.

But let's focus on a couple of Islamic nurses who made some horrific comments... because it proves that Islam is evil - apparently.

I've never claimed Islam is an across the board benign influence. I just don't blame the whole of Islam for everything done by a Muslim. Nor all of Islam for minority interpretations of the scripture.

You're the one claiming an across the board influence.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

The article I linked earlier. What can’t these leaders whole heartedly condemn those nurses? They pay some flaky lip service to doing that and then lash the public for being too upset about having genocidal lunatics in their health service and not sufficiently upset about a war on another continent. It is fair to assume that their statements are somewhat representative of their teachings.

I don’t think it’s the across-the-board benign influence that you do.

You are holding them to a different standard than what you hold yourself.

 

[ElectricG]

Do you not understand that you can condemn the nurses hate filled comments, but also condemn the hate filled comments directed at Islam as the result of these nurse's comments. And also condemn the blatant prejudice of the media that makes two Islamic nurses making awful anti-Israeli comments a bigger story than genuine atrocity.

Musk is backing an indicted anti-Islamic terrorist. Trump is advocating for ethnic cleansing of an Islamic community. There's a possible genocide occuring against a Muslim community. Anti Muslim riots in the uk. Anti-Islamic extremist groups are running for office all over Europe and getting heaps of votes. Islamophic hate crimes are sky-rocketing in both Australia and America.

But let's focus on a couple of Islamic nurses who made some horrific comments...it proves that Islam is evil - apparently.

The Israel-Hamas war broke out over well over a year ago. It was, and continues to be, covered by our media.

Those leaders are playing the same game you are here. Downplay bad events attributable to Islam and overstate everything else. If they truly were a source of wisdom, peace, and kindness, they wouldn’t have so much difficulty saying “nurses shouldn’t kill Jews in their care.”

But they are just purely parochial. Their teachings have some light shone on them and they respond in the only way they know how - “but Palestine”. Again: they castigated the public for being upset about this event. How do you not see how bizarre this is?

 

[JackOutback]

The Israel-Hamas war broke out over well over a year ago. It was, and continues to be, covered by our media.

Those leaders are playing the same game you are here. Downplay bad events attributable to Islam and overstate everything else. If they truly were a source of wisdom, peace, and kindness, they wouldn’t have so much difficulty saying “nurses shouldn’t kill Jews in their care.”

But they are just purely parochial. Their teachings have some light shone on them and they respond in the only way they know how - “but Palestine”. Again: they castigated the public for being upset about this event. How do you not see how bizarre this is?

You’re more concerned about two randos talking shit online than an actual genocide. You’re the one downplaying actual atrocities and overstating irrelevant, if disgusting, bullshit.

 

[sr36]

The Israel-Hamas war broke out over well over a year ago. It was, and continues to be, covered by our media.

Those leaders are playing the same game you are here. Downplay bad events attributable to Islam and overstate everything else. If they truly were a source of wisdom, peace, and kindness, they wouldn’t have so much difficulty saying “nurses shouldn’t kill Jews in their care.”

But they are just purely parochial. Their teachings have some light shone on them and they respond in the only way they know how - “but Palestine”. Again: they castigated the public for being upset about this event. How do you not see how bizarre this is?

The leaders I heard condemned it.

Are they not allowed to also comment on what they believe to be prejudiced reporting of it that blows it up into a far bigger story than what it would be if they weren't Islamic. There's heaps of murderous hate videos posted on the internet. They're not national stories - unless of course it's a Muslim expressing the hate. Are Islamic leaders meant to follow Dutton'd idiotic rule where you only oppose anti-Semitism and aren't able to oppose Islamophobia as well - even when so many of the same events currently relate to both.

 

[ElectricG]

Are they not allowed to also comment on what they believe to be prejudiced reporting of it that blows it up into a far bigger story than what it would be if they weren't Islamic.

Am I really supposed to believe that nurses routinely sit around making videos, on work time, about who they want to murder? And that this time it was only a story because Muslims did it?

The statements of those leaders basically amounts to “stop noticing what we’re doing”. They are never contrite about the behaviour of their followers. Always contemptuous towards normal, law abiding people who are appropriately outraged at Islam’s latest scandal or atrocity. Always upset about the anticipated Islamophobic backlash that never happens.

 

[sr36]

Am I really supposed to believe that nurses routinely sit around making videos, on work time, about who they want to murder? And that this time it was only a story because Muslims did it?

The statements of those leaders basically amounts to “stop noticing what we’re doing”. They are never contrite about the behaviour of their followers. Always contemptuous towards normal, law abiding people who are appropriately outraged at Islam’s latest scandal or atrocity. Always upset about the anticipated Islamophobic backlash that never happens.

https://www.sbs.com.au/news/article...nurses-alleged-anti-israeli-remarks/e2c72fcz9

You seem to think 2 billion are one.

So you only need to find one Islamic group saying something to view all of them saying it. You only need to find one Islamic person doing something to view them all doing it. It's prejudice 101.

 

[ElectricG]

https://www.sbs.com.au/news/article...nurses-alleged-anti-israeli-remarks/e2c72fcz9

You seem to think 2 billion are one.

So you only need to find one Islamic group saying something to view all of them saying it. You only need to find one Islamic person doing something to view them all doing it. It's prejudice 101.

I think we’ve gone as far as we can with this argument.

 

[sr36]

I think we’ve gone as far as we can with this argument.

Did you read the article and consider whether your claims about what "Islam" said about the events are accurate?

Some leaders or individuals or groups just spoke in condmenation. Some condemned and then spoke against Islamophobic sentiment likely to extend from this. Some have since spoken about their perception of media bias due to the coverage of it. And I'm confident that some whom identify as Islamic agreed with the sentiment of the nurses.

Do you really think that it'd just be one opinion voiced and believed from any other broad section of the community? One opinion that doesn't look at any other connections to the event other than the nurses spoke repugnantly.

 

[ElectricG]

Did you read the article and consider whether your claims about what "Islam" said about the events are accurate?

Some leaders or individuals or groups just spoke in condmenation. Some condemned and then spoke against Islamophobic sentiment likely to extend from this. Some have since spoken about their perception of media bias due to the coverage of it. And I'm confident that some whom identify as Islamic agreed with the sentiment of the nurses.

Do you really think that it'd just be one opinion voiced and believed from any other broad section of the community? One opinion that doesn't look at any other connections to the event other than the nurses spoke repugnantly.

My view is that not-good opinions are commonplace enough among followers of Islam that it’s fair to say that on balance, Islam is a bad thing.

The fact that multiple leaders of those communities are unable to condemn those nurses without caveat or conditions is, or making it a sort of back-handed condemnation, is further evidence to me that they aren’t really conscious of their problems where they do exist.

 

[sr36]

My view is that not-good opinions are commonplace enough among followers of Islam that it’s fair to say that on balance, Islam is a bad thing.

The fact that multiple leaders of those communities are unable to condemn those nurses without caveat or conditions is, or making it a sort of back-handed condemnation, is further evidence to me that they aren’t really conscious of their problems where they do exist.

But you are? You, who has shown no more knowledge of Islam than two major branches exist and some Muslims do and say bad shit.

 

[ElectricG]

But you are? You, who has shown no more knowledge of Islam than two major branches exist and some Muslims do and say bad shit.

Can we not start this “name ten of their albums denominations” thing again please. It doesn’t have any significance.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Can we not start this “name ten of their albums denominations” thing again please. It doesn’t have any significance.

Yet 2 nurses trolling an IDF soldier is significant?