Society/Culture Why I blame Islam for the fact it's raining today.... part 2

[Chief]

Reminder: This isn't the Israel/Hamas thread. Go to the Israel/Hamas thread if you want to talk about that. Thanks.

Mid East - Israel declare war after Hamas attack II

Part I: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/israel-declare-war-after-hamas-attack.1371828/page-47#post-81443295 Thread Rules: Alright. I recognise that this is a fraught topic for any number of you posting here. Some of you will have family in Israel or Palestine. Some of you will have...

www.bigfooty.com

Thread rules update:

From this point if you're going to make a connection between Islam and the crime rate, you need to demonstrate causation in your post. If you do not, I'm going to infract you for the inherent racism in the position you're taking.

 

[JackOutback]

Western and Middle Eastern culture is quite far apart so you’d imagine that has a factor in the unrest with larger immigration numbers.

Western and Asian cultures are quite far apart. Now tell us why it’s Muslim immigrants only that should be restricted. Just say what you’re really thinking, ffs.

 

[10571z]

No.

The question - posed to you twice now - was this:

I want to know why you're in here, using isolated crimess to do it. These are two exceedingly irrelevant questions to the question posed.

...

So - just to clarify - you don't want muslims in Australia because it emboldens the far right and/or gives them a rhetorical win?

That's dumb. That's twisting yourself into a pretzel in search of a justification. It's also not really a clear answer.

It's also exceedingly poor motivation, to the point in which it seems like yet another attempt at "look over there!"

I'll ask you a different question, then. Why don't you want to provide a clear, distinct answer to the above question?

No issue with immigration at controlled and sustainable levels. But governments need to be clear of goals and the end game.

I don’t think Australia has a Muslim problem nor too many. You’re just placing words in my mouth.

“So - just to clarify - you don't want muslims in Australia because it emboldens the far right and/or gives them a rhetorical win?”

No. I’ve used UK as an example. They’ve imported record numbers of immigrants, huge number of Muslims. We see civil unrest and right wing parties a genuine chance of gaining power. You expect a melting pot of multi culture and a big happy families but the reality is you aren’t getting that. Do you just say well bad luck let’s continue doing it?

 

[10571z]

Western and Asian cultures are quite far apart. Now tell us why it’s Muslim immigrants only that should be restricted. Just say what you’re really thinking, ffs.

Are they? Have you been to Asia?

 

[10571z]

Western and Asian cultures are quite far apart. Now tell us why it’s Muslim immigrants only that should be restricted. Just say what you’re really thinking, ffs.

As i said above all immigration needs to be planned and capped at sustainable levels. Otherwise you'll get exactly what Sweden got. A failure to immigrate people successfully.

Islam clearly clashes with many westerners values. Hence the unrest between the groups consistently over the past 20 years.

 

[Gethelred]

No issue with immigration at controlled and sustainable levels. But governments need to be clear of goals and the end game.

I don’t think Australia has a Muslim problem nor too many. You’re just placing words in my mouth.

I have gone out of my way to avoid putting words in your mouth.

“So - just to clarify - you don't want muslims in Australia because it emboldens the far right and/or gives them a rhetorical win?”

No. I’ve used UK as an example.

... in order to avoid answering the question in any form of a straightforward manner.

They’ve imported record numbers of immigrants, huge number of Muslims. We see civil unrest and right wing parties a genuine chance of gaining power. You expect a melting pot of multi culture and a big happy families but the reality is you aren’t getting that. Do you just say well bad luck let’s continue doing it?

This is all a deflection away from what I asked, a vague gesture in the direction of social disharmony without demonstrating it.

Let me put it this way: from this point, anyone providing an example of islamic crime needs to demonstrate a predilection from muslims towards crime ahead of the rest of the population, or I'm going to infract them for the racism inherent in that position in the absence of evidence.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

As i said above all immigration needs to be planned and capped at sustainable levels. Otherwise you'll get exactly what Sweden got. A failure to immigrate people successfully.

Islam clearly clashes with many westerners values. Hence the unrest between the groups consistently over the past 20 years.

USA has a much higher crime rate than Sweden. Wouldn't that be a better example to use?

 

[Chief]

Islam clearly clashes with many westerners values.

Which form of ‘Islam’?

 

[Gough]

USA has a much higher crime rate than Sweden. Wouldn't that be a better example to use?

The immigrants Americans are told are destroying the joint are Christians.

 

[ElectricG]

Which form of ‘Islam’?

The green one

 

[SaintsSeptember]

USA has a much higher crime rate than Sweden. Wouldn't that be a better example to use?

No...
But...

How gang violence took hold of Sweden – in five charts

Scandinavian country has second highest gun crime death rate in Europe, with poverty and inequality among driving factors

www.theguardian.com

 

[Carringbush2010]

I don’t think Australia has a Muslim problem nor too many. You’re just placing words in my mouth.

It seems you're suggesting that we're heading towards a problem in Australia, tell us different.

No. I’ve used UK as an example. They’ve imported record numbers of immigrants, huge number of Muslims. We see civil unrest and right wing parties a genuine chance of gaining power.

Why are using UK? I think it has something to do with you fear the same 'Armageddon' will happen here.

Also you're buying into media reports that hyperbolize the civil unrest as a widespread norm, it likely isn't.

You expect a melting pot of multi culture and a big happy families but the reality is you aren’t getting that. Do you just say well bad luck let’s continue doing it?

Y'know human kind can quite harmoniously co exist even with very opposing views.

Australia is one example of this.

 

[10571z]

It seems you're suggesting that we're heading towards a problem in Australia, tell us different.

Why are using UK? I think it has something to do with you fear the same 'Armageddon' will happen here.

Also you're buying into media reports that hyperbolize the civil unrest as a widespread norm, it likely isn't.

Y'know human kind can quite harmoniously co exist even with very opposing views.

Australia is one example of this.

Why am i using the UK? Because as stated they have had mass immigration (Huge number from Muslim nations) and the people seem to be revolting against it. Reform UK literally could win the next election or is that a media beat up?

That simply shows how unhappy the vast number of people are with the countries direction. You can pretend its a media beat up but the facts are people living there are saying otherwise.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Because as stated they have had mass immigration (Huge number from Muslim nations) and the people seem to be revolting against it.

And?

 

[Carringbush2010]

That simply shows how unhappy the vast number of people are with the countries direction.

Even if the 'vast!!' number of people are unhappy with their countries direction (which again is probably hyperbolised by the media - you're their best customer).

This is continually happening all the time, it's called evolution.

After wwii it was non whites

in the 60s it was the asian invasion

Now it's the middle easterns.

Armageddon will not ensue and you'll look for the next 'non us' thing to have a go at.

 

[10571z]

And?

Is that good for a society to have a large chunk of the population unhappy with the direction?

 

[Carringbush2010]

Is that good for a society to have a large chunk of the population unhappy with the direction?

I didn't say that, we all know there's unrest among a noisy minority about 'immigration', no one's contesting that.

I'm asking why you're mentioning it, do you really believe the media when they report the progress party (or whatever it's called) could win the election coz this super large percentage of people are gonna protest against islamic immigration?

Just trying to find your societal existential threat meter.

 

[10571z]

I didn't say that, we all know there's unrest among a noisy minority about 'immigration', no one's contesting that.

I'm asking why you're mentioning it, do you really believe the media when they report the progress party (or whatever it's called) could win the election coz this super large percentage of people are gonna protest against islamic immigration?

Just trying to find your societal existential threat meter.

I wouldn't say its a noisy "minority". Its one of the hottest topics and biggest issue for a majority of people in Europe.

 

[10571z]

Germany has spoken with 2 right wing parties finishing 1 and 2 with immigration a huge factor.

 

[Gethelred]

Germany has spoken with 2 right wing parties finishing 1 and 2 with immigration a huge factor.

We have a thread to discuss the German election:

Europe - German Federal Election, 23/02/25 - The Elontervention

The German governing coalition collapsed after the SPD (analogous to our ALP) and the Greens fell out with the libertarian FDP. The Chancellor (analogous to Prime Minister) Olaf Scholz has set things in motion for an election on February 23. Problem is, everybody hates him. He has the lowest...

www.bigfooty.com

This is not that thread.

 

[Carringbush2010]

I wouldn't say its a noisy "minority". Its one of the hottest topics and biggest issue for a majority of people in Europe.

That's media sucking you in, not a reflection of the majority.

 

[Chief]

Germany has spoken with 2 right wing parties finishing 1 and 2 with immigration a huge factor.

Happy days for your lot.

 

[sr36]

That's media sucking you in, not a reflection of the majority.

It doesn't need to be the majority. Coalition governments are becoming the norm and I dont mean like the long established Lib/Nat coalition in Aust. 27% of the vote is going to give a party a lot of sway - they'll hold the balance of power at least. And that sort of figure was what we got in Germany, higher in France and will probably get similar in Britain next election for what was previously far right parties.

Anti-Islamic immigration is a big political movement that is getting heaps of votes. They're blitzing in the propaganda wars and are recruiting more and more followers.

They're particularly blitzing in the areas of the West that don't see much Islamic immigration. The big cities where most of the Islamic migrants live aren't falling for the propaganda as heavily.

The characterisation of Muslims as terrorists and rapists is propaganda that is really powerful persuasion. You'd need to be pretty confident that it's bullshit to not be swayed by that fear. And thus the movement can grow easily in areas where there aren't actual Muslims to overcome the stereotype being pushed.

There's a fair bit of polling suggesting that the less you know about Islam and the less contact you have with muslims the more likely it is that you'll be Islamophobic. And it's what we're also seeing in voting patterns.

 

[Carringbush2010]

The characterisation of Muslims as terrorists and rapists is propaganda that is really powerful persuasion.

Only to the dumb and or ignorant.

Anti-Islamic immigration is a big political movement that is getting heaps of votes.

Do you have a link for these 'heaps' of votes? And how many is 'heaps' 1%, 5, 10?

 

[Gethelred]

Only to the dumb and or ignorant.

Do you have a link for these 'heaps' of votes? And how many is 'heaps' 1%, 5, 10?

I think it's more a drain on votes away from supposedly muslim-friendly parties than a reason to vote for anti-islamic parties.

Of course, within a Westminister system you might have preferential voting but you still at the end of the day will probably wind up drinking coke or pepsi. Any option which drops votes off your opponent might end up returning to you; see Clive Palmer for details.

 

[sr36]

Do you have a link for these 'heaps' of votes? And how many is 'heaps' 1%, 5, 10?

Throughout most of Europe, what were previously far right parties are running mainly on an anti-refugee platform and are getting well over 20% of the primary vote. It's a response to the big intake of Syrians following the Syrian refugee crisis. We haven't been impacted by that crisis so less of a risk.

I heard someone on radio national yesterday talking about it in reference to Australia. We haven't had the same anti-refugee or culturally diverse immigrant push here recently - clearly have in the past. Supposedly polling has it under 10% seeing it as a big issue in Australia, but growing - and it can flip really quickly as we are connected to Europe in terms of ideology. The current low numbers mean that opportunist populist politicians haven't jumped on board yet, but if it continues to grow and hit a crucial point where it becomes a big enough vote winner it can then be well and truly off to the races when it starts getting widely pushed by a significant political party and becomes a mainstream issue really quickly.