Society/Culture Why I blame Islam for the fact it's raining today.... part 2

[Chief]

Reminder: This isn't the Israel/Hamas thread. Go to the Israel/Hamas thread if you want to talk about that. Thanks.

Mid East - Israel declare war after Hamas attack II

Part I: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/israel-declare-war-after-hamas-attack.1371828/page-47#post-81443295 Thread Rules: Alright. I recognise that this is a fraught topic for any number of you posting here. Some of you will have family in Israel or Palestine. Some of you will have...

www.bigfooty.com

Thread rules update:

From this point if you're going to make a connection between Islam and the crime rate, you need to demonstrate causation in your post. If you do not, I'm going to infract you for the inherent racism in the position you're taking.

 

[JayJ20]

Just today, Mordechai Brafman, a 28 year old pro-Israeli fanatic, fired 17 shots at a father and son in Miami Beach, injuring both. Believing he had killed them, he smiled and told police, “I killed two Palestinians.”

Little did he realise that he reportedly shot at two Jewish Israelis who he thought were Palestinians. And what did the Jewish Israeli victims do? Jump on social media saying "Death to Arabs".

Where is the widespread condemnation? Go on all of the Australian news outlets. Is this breaking news? Is it front page news on the NYT? Or are we supposed to only care about gunman/violent acts when they claim to be Muslims?

Flip it around. Imagine that's what a Muslim or Palestinian did believing the victim was an Israeli or a Jew in Miami. What do you think the response would be? Albanese would have condemned it by now.

 

[sr36]

I was lampooning the progressive view that Islam doesn’t lead people to do this. It was a simple lampoon.

It's all part of your consistent line that you're not willing to back down from that Islam in its entirety is to blame for anything negative done by an Islamic person.

And if you aren't willing to distinguish between small and massive branches of Islam or individual leaves that have fallen off branches - why don't you just blame the whole tree. Judaism, Christianity and Islam have all branched off the Abrahamic trunk. Blame all those communities. All those people. You're a product of the tree. Blame yourself and your mum the next time someone does or says something awful.

 

[10571z]

Just today, Mordechai Brafman, a 28 year old pro-Israeli fanatic, fired 17 shots at a father and son in Miami Beach, injuring both. Believing he had killed them, he smiled and told police, “I killed two Palestinians.”

Little did he realise that he reportedly shot at two Jewish Israelis who he thought were Palestinians. And what did the Jewish Israeli victims do? Jump on social media saying "Death to Arabs".

Where is the widespread condemnation? Go on all of the Australian news outlets. Is this breaking news? Is it front page news on the NYT? Or are we supposed to only care about gunman/violent acts when they claim to be Muslims?

Flip it around. Imagine that's what a Muslim or Palestinian did believing the victim was an Israeli or a Jew in Miami. What do you think the response would be? Albanese would have condemned it by now.

Since when are random American shootings front page news here in australia? They happen everyday?

There was an Austrian stabbing by a Muslim the other day and didn’t make our news.

There has been what 5 terrorist attacks in Germany in 12 months and 95% wouldn’t have a clue.

 

[CM86]

Since when are random American shootings front page news here in australia? They happen everyday?

There was an Austrian stabbing by a Muslim the other day and didn’t make our news.

You literally linked an Australian article about it on the previous page.

Austria stabbing: Official says suspect in fatal stabbing attack had 'Islamic terror motive'

amp.9news.com.au

14 year old boy killed, 5 others injured.

Here's the previous article on this.
https://www.9news.com.au/world/a-23...lice-say/12492551-6052-47e2-b9a4-07b1e3d5e299

There has been what 5 terrorist attacks in Germany in 12 months and 95% wouldn’t have a clue.

From the same article.






Why are far right extremists always so weirdly dishonest?

 

[JayJ20]

Since when are random American shootings front page news here in australia? They happen everyday?

There was an Austrian stabbing by a Muslim the other day and didn’t make our news.

There has been what 5 terrorist attacks in Germany in 12 months and 95% wouldn’t have a clue.

I mentioned incidents that happened in Australia on the previous page.

The German attacks got breaking news coverage. I know because that's how I found out about them. And the Austrian stabbing was also reported. But you knew that.

The fact that you even used the word terrorist attack proves my point. The term terror and terrorist is disproportionately used for anyone associated with Islam and being Arab with no nuance and it is almost never used for anyone else, especially not westerners and Israelis. It is to the POINT where they wait to know the identity of the perpetrator before they deem it terrorism. Don't believe it?

You know that Swedish person that killed a bunch of immigrants a week ago in an adult learning centre in Sweden in what has been deemed the worst mass shooting in Sweden's history? Who is calling that a terrorist attack? They say "lone gunman" etc. If it was the other way around, then you'd have mentioned that attack in your comment as a terrorist attack.

If an Arab or Muslim barged into a school and killed 20-30 school kids like we see in America, that would have been deemed a terrorist attack, not a lonely person with a mental illness from a supposed "good family".

Cmon let's be real.

 

[rank and file]

Just today, Mordechai Brafman, a 28 year old pro-Israeli fanatic, fired 17 shots at a father and son in Miami Beach, injuring both. Believing he had killed them, he smiled and told police, “I killed two Palestinians.”

Little did he realise that he reportedly shot at two Jewish Israelis who he thought were Palestinians. And what did the Jewish Israeli victims do? Jump on social media saying "Death to Arabs".

Where is the widespread condemnation? Go on all of the Australian news outlets. Is this breaking news? Is it front page news on the NYT? Or are we supposed to only care about gunman/violent acts when they claim to be Muslims?

Flip it around. Imagine that's what a Muslim or Palestinian did believing the victim was an Israeli or a Jew in Miami. What do you think the response would be? Albanese would have condemned it by now.

I like the Flip it around.
There is no widespread condemnation in Australia media because it's been owned since day dot.
Still Murdoch v Packer,James on his knee's.

 

[sr36]

Tommy Robinson leads a group that commits politically motivated violence against the community. It pretty clearly fits into the definition of terrorism, so much so that Robinson was charged in the UK under the terrorism act.

When is Robinson going to be called a terrorist? When are his followers going to be labelled as terrorists belonging to a terrorist group? When is Elon Musk going to be labelled a supporter of terrorism? When are those who pick up and spread his hateful talking points and the core of his ideology - all of Islam is bad - like several in this thread do, going to be labelled as drivers of terrorism, who spread terrorist ideology?

The simple answer is they won't be, because they're not Islamic. However, they are either directly part of, funding or fuelling a terrorist movement.

 

[JayJ20]

Tommy Robinson leads a group that commits politically motivated violence against the community. It pretty clearly fits into the definition of terrorism, so much so that Robinson was charged in the UK under the terrorism act.

When is Robinson going to be called a terrorist? When are his followers going to be labelled as terrorists belonging to a terrorist group or his supporters as supporting terrorism? When is Elon Musk going to be labelled a supporter of terrorism? When are those who pick up and spread his hateful talking points, like several in this thread, going to be labelled as drivers of terrorism, spreading terrorist ideology?

The simple answer is they won't be, because they're not Islamic. They are part of a terrorist movement though.

Exactly. Perfect examples

 

[10571z]

You literally linked an Australian article about it on the previous page.



View attachment 2228640


Here's the previous article on this.
https://www.9news.com.au/world/a-23...lice-say/12492551-6052-47e2-b9a4-07b1e3d5e299

View attachment 2228641

View attachment 2228642

From the same article.




View attachment 2228644

Why are far right extremists always so weirdly dishonest?

Far right extremist hahahaha. Let me rephrase that. It was barely news in Australia.

I don’t the the herald Sun even posted the Article on their socials.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

I mentioned incidents that happened in Australia on the previous page.

The German attacks got breaking news coverage. I know because that's how I found out about them. And the Austrian stabbing was also reported. But you knew that.

The fact that you even used the word terrorist attack proves my point. The term terror and terrorist is disproportionately used for anyone associated with Islam and being Arab with no nuance and it is almost never used for anyone else, especially not westerners and Israelis. It is to the POINT where they wait to know the identity of the perpetrator before they deem it terrorism. Don't believe it?

You know that Swedish person that killed a bunch of immigrants a week ago in an adult learning centre in Sweden in what has been deemed the worst mass shooting in Sweden's history? Who is calling that a terrorist attack? They say "lone gunman" etc. If it was the other way around, then you'd have mentioned that attack in your comment as a terrorist attack.

If an Arab or Muslim barged into a school and killed 20-30 school kids like we see in America, that would have been deemed a terrorist attack, not a lonely person with a mental illness from a supposed "good family".

Cmon let's be real.

Because they're terrorist attacks.

 

[CM86]

Because they're terrorist attacks.

So why aren't they called that by the media, police and politicians?

Why is it almost only ever labeled as a terrorist attack when it's connected to Islam?



Why have our Government, Judiciary, ASIO, the AFP etc refused to classify a single radicalised and extremist group within Australia a terrorist organisation?

 

[FlowersByIrene]

So why aren't they called that by the media, police and politicians?

Why is it almost only ever labeled as a terrorist attack when it's connected to Islam?



Why have our Government, Judiciary, ASIO, the AFP etc refused to classify a single radicalised and extremist group within Australia a terrorist organisation?

To be clear, I'm saying that the Islamic attacks are terrorist attacks. because Islam is a religion of terror and preaches jihad. Hopefully we're on the same page.

 

[CM86]

To be clear, I'm saying that the Islamic attacks are terrorist attacks. because Islam is a religion of terror and preaches jihad. Hopefully we're on the same page.

The post you replied to was pointing out that they are called that, but other attacks aren't given the same designation, seemingly due to not being connected to Islam.

We're not on the same page.

 

[CM86]

To be clear, I'm saying that the Islamic attacks are terrorist attacks. because Islam is a religion of terror and preaches jihad. Hopefully we're on the same page.

Ok, without being told any ethnicities, religions, ideologies etc.

If there is a group that is repeatedly and actively making plans to kill groups of Australians, being stopped by AFP, ASIO etc.
Where they attempt to make explosives, 3d printed guns, petrol bombs etc.
If they meet the following criteria:

• advance a political, ideological or religious cause; and
• coerce or intimidate an Australian
• causes serious physical harm to a person or serious damage to property;
• causes death or endangers a persons life;
• creates a serious risk to the health and safety to the public (or section of the public), or
• seriously interferes, disrupts or destroys

Is that a terrorist group, or not?



If you can't answer that without knowing their ethnicity or religion... then you might start to understand the point that was being made.

 

[peetoo]

View attachment 2229027


Ok, without being told any ethnicities, religions, ideologies etc.

If there is a group that is repeatedly and actively making plans to kill groups of Australians, being stopped by AFP, ASIO etc.
Where they attempt to make explosives, 3d printed guns, petrol bombs etc.
If they meet the following criteria:

• advance a political, ideological or religious cause; and
• coerce or intimidate an Australian
• causes serious physical harm to a person or serious damage to property;
• causes death or endangers a persons life;
• creates a serious risk to the health and safety to the public (or section of the public), or
• seriously interferes, disrupts or destroys

Is that a terrorist group, or not?



If you can't answer that without knowing their ethnicity or religion... then you might start to understand the point that was being made.

According to the scomo govt that was Novak D

 

[JayJ20]

Because they're terrorist attacks.

My point is clearly the discrepancy in labels

To be clear, I'm saying that the Islamic attacks are terrorist attacks. because Islam is a religion of terror and preaches jihad. Hopefully we're on the same page.

Ahhh there it is. People love to say the word Jihad without knowing what it is.

Conducting organised military campaigns, protecting your people through military means and honouring the fallen soldiers is not a concept exclusive to Muslim people. But of course people love to use Arabic words to scare the xenophobes into believing that we're somehow blood-thirsty beasts.
What you're engaging in is literal propaganda.

Just like you wouldn't call a random man exploding himself in the middle of the street "a fallen soldier" or martyr, neither do we. That has nothing to do with Jihad. It's murder-suicide which is forbidden in Islam.

IN FACT, our rules for Jihad (conducting military campaigns) are FAR stricter than western countries when it comes to military targets. We do not kill children, women and innocent civilians. You would not see a Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Iraq invasion and Palestine situation if the rules of Islam were applied properly.

This is the perfect example of double standards. How many western countries have gone to battle and promote joining the military until this day? In fact, the Israeli government have mandatory conscription. We watch you commemorate the ANZACs, remembrance day, honour the soldiers who served Iraq and contributed to the killing of 1 million Iraqis on a 'WMD' lie.

Jihad doesn't mean strapping yourself with an explosive and running into a crowd. I explained in detail the history of modern extremism in the Islamic world. The concept of Jihad has been co-opted by extremist groups and any educated person would know that. But people like you are comfortable being ignorant as long as it serves your narrative.

 

[10571z]

So why aren't they called that by the media, police and politicians?

Why is it almost only ever labeled as a terrorist attack when it's connected to Islam?



Why have our Government, Judiciary, ASIO, the AFP etc refused to classify a single radicalised and extremist group within Australia a terrorist organisation?

Because when you kill in the name of religion it’s a terrorist attack and the majority of that is done by Muslims.

Which group in Australia do you think should be classified as a terrorist group?

 

[peetoo]

Because when you kill in the name of religion it’s a terrorist attack and the majority of that is done by Muslims.

Which group in Australia do you think should be classified as a terrorist group?

Is Nazi a religion?

 

[10571z]

Is Nazi a religion?

No, its a political ideology. So again if they shoot up a Synagogue in the name of their political ideology it'll be a terrorist attack.

 

[ElectricG]

Peak Muslim groups condemn 'selective outrage' over Sydney nurses

A number of Muslim groups have signed an open letter condemning both the comments made by two Sydney nurses about treating Israeli patients, as well as the subsequent response.

www.abc.net.au

Predictable.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Peak Muslim groups condemn 'selective outrage' over Sydney nurses

A number of Muslim groups have signed an open letter condemning both the comments made by two Sydney nurses about treating Israeli patients, as well as the subsequent response.

www.abc.net.au

Predictable.

Reads like the product of a large language model trained on posters in this thread downplaying Islamic violence and sidestepping issues.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Peak Muslim groups condemn 'selective outrage' over Sydney nurses

A number of Muslim groups have signed an open letter condemning both the comments made by two Sydney nurses about treating Israeli patients, as well as the subsequent response.

www.abc.net.au

Predictable.

What's predictable is the usual suspects parroting newscorp opinion pieces.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

My point is clearly the discrepancy in labels

Ahhh there it is. People love to say the word Jihad without knowing what it is.

Conducting organised military campaigns, protecting your people through military means and honouring the fallen soldiers is not a concept exclusive to Muslim people. But of course people love to use Arabic words to scare the xenophobes into believing that we're somehow blood-thirsty beasts.
What you're engaging in is literal propaganda.

Just like you wouldn't call a random man exploding himself in the middle of the street "a fallen soldier" or martyr, neither do we. That has nothing to do with Jihad. It's murder-suicide which is forbidden in Islam.

IN FACT, our rules for Jihad (conducting military campaigns) are FAR stricter than western countries when it comes to military targets. We do not kill children, women and innocent civilians. You would not see a Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Iraq invasion and Palestine situation if the rules of Islam were applied properly.

This is the perfect example of double standards. How many western countries have gone to battle and promote joining the military until this day? In fact, the Israeli government have mandatory conscription. We watch you commemorate the ANZACs, remembrance day, honour the soldiers who served Iraq and contributed to the killing of 1 million Iraqis on a 'WMD' lie.

Jihad doesn't mean strapping yourself with an explosive and running into a crowd. I explained in detail the history of modern extremism in the Islamic world. The concept of Jihad has been co-opted by extremist groups and any educated person would know that. But people like you are comfortable being ignorant as long as it serves your narrative.

Islamic State and Al Qaeda were constantly associated with the words Jihad or Jihadist.
I guess they broke the rules.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Islamic State and Al Qaeda were constantly associated with the words Jihad or Jihadist.
I guess they broke the rules.

They're no true Scotsmen is all...

 

[sr36]

To be clear, I'm saying that the Islamic attacks are terrorist attacks. because Islam is a religion of terror and preaches jihad. Hopefully we're on the same page

If you're anti-terrorism:

Take the Tommy Robinson poster off your wall and stop pushing his terrorist ideology - the same ideology shared by all terrorists - the other group is evil.

If you don't, you are a terrorist, playing your part to incite the growing plague of religious based violence and hatred inflicted on Islamic people - from Delhi to London to Detroit.

Like you, all other terrorists think they're telling the truth - they've got anecdotes of wrongdoing by individuals or groups within a huge population to prove it...And they've got hateful voices like yours to prove it even further.