Society/Culture Why is Multiculturalism a good thing?

[The Coup]

Different issue really, weak political leaders ensure bad cops.

Police existing ensure bad cops.

 

[Lester Burnham]

Not sure what the rest of your post has to do with my comment. I was trying to make the point that if those in position had acted, better, faster, appropriately, subsequent events may not have escalated to the point that they did. Not dissimilar to events with the Catholic Church, Salvation Army and some private schools etc.

Because if there was a culture of institutionalised political correctness that allowed these terrible events to happen then it is right that those responsible for that culture be removed from office.

Why did you wonder what nationality they were?

 

[The Coup]

What about an institutionalised culture of racism?

Should we remove that?

 

[Aed0s]

Because as a starting point 2/3 of those leaders haven't even had multiculturalism.

France no. Strictly secular state. All culture is state culture. Racial, or religious affiliation aren't even counted in the census.

Germany no. Germany imported a large number of Turkish workers for cheap labour for it's manufacturing industy. At no point did they attempt or allow them to integrate in to German society. For many years most of these people were left on rolling visas tied to jobs until eventually being allowed to stay after living there for over 20 years. The German government excluded these mostly Kurdish workers from society despite inviting them to come and fill labour shortages in their market. They were never allowed to feel German and no attempt was made to accommodate those people within a new German nationality that could also include Kurdish refugees. It wasn't so long ago that Mesut Ozil, a Turkish German football player, was booed from two separate groups of fans. One Turkish-German who thought he should be playing for Turkey. The other German nationalists who thought he shouldn't be playing for Germany.

**** knows what either of these mugs are talking about because it sure as hell isn't Australian style multiculturalism.

I'd like you to show the link where Cameron said that multiculturalism was a massive failure of a social experiment.

You lack research skills.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-12371994
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/cameron-my-war-on-multiculturalism-2205074.html

I'll refute and deconstruct your claims one by one tomorrow if I have time after work.

 

[MrCharisma]

Enforced multiculturalism and its negative implications have been the single most destructive force on English society since WW2.

Got any empirical evidence for your empirical claim?

 

[smokingjacket]

You lack research skills.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-12371994
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/cameron-my-war-on-multiculturalism-2205074.html

I'll refute and deconstruct your claims one by one tomorrow if I have time after work.

I asked you to provide evidence. I didn't feel like crawling through the gutter press to find some silly quote where I didn't even know what it was the David Cameron said. I appreciate that you bore that trauma for me. As it turns out I do remember the 'muscular liberalism' speech. Tone tried it on for a while too before realising it's sheer stupidity and running.

The main problem with the entirety of that speech is that Paul Keating, who was one of Australia's most outspoken Prime Ministers on the benefits of multiculturalism, beat him to it by nearly a decade.

Keating in 2002

“The essential balance, I think, in the multicultural equation: the promotion of individual and collective cultural rights and expression on the one hand, and on the other the promotion of common national interests and values. And success depends on demonstrating that each side of the equation serves the other. These are that the first loyalty of all Australians must be to Australia, that they must accept the basic principles of Australian society. These include the Constitution and the rule of law, parliamentary democracy, freedom of speech and religion, English as a national language, equality of the sexes and tolerance.”

Keating in 1995

...The impact of the post-war migration program on the cultural identity of the country (is), we believe, a great success story. We don't presume it is a model for the rest of the world. But I think we are an example of a culturally pluralist society that works pretty well and in this text he is, I think, trying to tell the reader why he thinks it works well and to say that our whole process is informed by democratic
commonsense.
...Multiculturalism is successful because of the strength of the nation's oldest values. That is egalitarianism, principally, the belief that everyone deserves a fair chance or a fair go and our deep-rooted sense of democracy and our basic tolerance, which comes from it, is the thing which has given people the psychological space to let multicultural ism work in a way that we have been able to draw strength from it. He says that rather than diluting Australia's culture, it has replenished it. Replenished it around the theme that the place is, essentially, deeply democratic and tolerant and egalitarian and that the influences of multiculturalism have, in fact, highlighted, sharpened, and replenished those instincts. And that people have brought colour and ambition to Australia and that has generally supported the tendency we have all had to these democratic ideals and democratic traditions.

Australian multiculturalism as we define it has always required immigrants culture to be secondary to the laws of Australia I assume that's why most of the countries you can find criticizing 'multiculturalism' however they view it, aren't Australia as we've had a wildly successful immigration story.

Out of interest, are you in English? As in born there?

 

[The Coup]

Remember that Australia's (the nation) initial values were "**** the rich we are getting something back for ourselves" its easy to see why multiculturalism works here.

We emphasised class over race a long time ago. And we're heading back that way the more the greedy mongrels try and steal.

 

[Lester Burnham]

Hey Aed0s, I'm sitting on a bus at the moment, I'm the only white face, I can hear at least three languages being spoken and I love it. You've lost mate, you may as well whinge about gravity for all the good it will do you. As Billy Bragg said, all you fascists are bound to lose.

That's quite a silly post. Sitting on a bus listening to people babble in different languages tells us nothing about the policies being adopted for various ethnicities. Multiculturalism is about valuing every culture equally and putting in place policies that allow those cultures to exist alongside our culture. So we would have Sharia law for Muslims, traditional law for Aborigines, etc. It's all very nice until the culture is totally at odds with ours.

There are fears a nine-year-old Sydney girl has been taken out of Australia to be married overseas.

Federal Justice Minister Michael Keenan say he is investigating reports the girl will be married in the Middle East.

"We're very keen to ... make sure that if somebody is to come across this type of crime that they know how to go about helping that person to report it to authorities so we can do something about it," he told the ABC.

Minister for Women Pru Goward said parents needed to know it was illegal to take their child overseas for a forced marriage.

"Certainly the person who `married' the girl can be prosecuted and it is just an unacceptable part of life in Australia," she told Macquarie Radio on Tuesday.​

https://au.news.yahoo.com/a/25662328/govt-looks-into-reports-of-bride-aged-nine/

 

[spinynorman]

That's quite a silly post. Sitting on a bus listening to people babble in different languages tells us nothing about the policies being adopted for various ethnicities. Multiculturalism is about valuing every culture equally and putting in place policies that allow those cultures to exist alongside our culture. So we would have Sharia law for Muslims, traditional law for Aborigines, etc. It's all very nice until the culture is totally at odds with ours.

That's a distortion of what multiculturalism is though. Marrying a 9 year old is illegal and remains being illegal. Multiculturalism allows people to practice their cultures as they wish within the confines of the Australian legal system. In the same way some particularly zealous Christians can wait until they get married before they have it off, so too can Arabic Australians or Indian Australians or whoever practice whatever aspects of their culture they wish that are legal. A large amount of sharia law is perfectly legal (the notion of not charging interest on loans etc). We're not going to suddenly see kids being married off or thieves getting their hands cut off en masse, however much we want to whip people into a state of alarm over one-off nutters breaking the law etc.

 

[MrCharisma]

Multiculturalism is about valuing every culture equally and putting in place policies that allow those cultures to exist alongside our culture. So we would have Sharia law for Muslims, traditional law for Aborigines, etc. It's all very nice until the culture is totally at odds with ours.

What? Since when do we have Sharia law for Muslims and traditional laws for Aborigines?

 

[Lester Burnham]

What? Since when do we have Sharia law for Muslims and traditional laws for Aborigines?

We don't. Why not?

 

[Old Spice]

That's quite a silly post. Sitting on a bus listening to people babble in different languages tells us nothing about the policies being adopted for various ethnicities. Multiculturalism is about valuing every culture equally and putting in place policies that allow those cultures to exist alongside our culture. So we would have Sharia law for Muslims, traditional law for Aborigines, etc. It's all very nice until the culture is totally at odds with ours.

There are fears a nine-year-old Sydney girl has been taken out of Australia to be married overseas.

Federal Justice Minister Michael Keenan say he is investigating reports the girl will be married in the Middle East.

"We're very keen to ... make sure that if somebody is to come across this type of crime that they know how to go about helping that person to report it to authorities so we can do something about it," he told the ABC.

Minister for Women Pru Goward said parents needed to know it was illegal to take their child overseas for a forced marriage.

"Certainly the person who `married' the girl can be prosecuted and it is just an unacceptable part of life in Australia," she told Macquarie Radio on Tuesday.​

https://au.news.yahoo.com/a/25662328/govt-looks-into-reports-of-bride-aged-nine/

You are a fan of the outlier position and then presenting it as a typical, mainstream problem, which is the method of the extremist.

I can present a case for the eradication of Moe based on your thought process.

 

[kfc1]

I can present a case for the eradication of Moe based on your thought process.

Your ideas are intriguing to me. I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

 

[Old Spice]

We don't. Why not?

Since we don't, what are you getting upset about?

 

[MrCharisma]

We don't. Why not?

Because it's something you just came up with then. It doesn't make sense.

 

[smokingjacket]

Multiculturalism is about valuing every culture equally and putting in place policies that allow those cultures to exist alongside our culture. So we would have Sharia law for Muslims, traditional law for Aborigines, etc. It's all very nice until the culture is totally at odds with ours.

Or you could just say that in any circumstance that the culture is at odds with the law, which normally reflects our cultural base, then that practise isn't allowed. Worked well so far.

We don't. Why not?

Care to explain? You believe that 'Australian Multiculturalism' isn't actually multiculturalism?

 

[Pie eyed]

We don't. Why not?

We have Family Law.

 

[Richard Pryor]

Multiculturalism is about valuing every culture equally and putting in place policies that allow those cultures to exist alongside our culture. So we would have Sharia law for Muslims, traditional law for Aborigines, etc. It's all very nice until the culture is totally at odds with ours.

You seem to be under the impression that the end result of multiculturalism is that all cultures are considered equal and independent/isolated from mainstream society by the law.

I'm not sure who exactly is advocating this and how it would accidentally take place, but I don't think anyone is actually okay with the kind of 'multiculturalism' you're describing. To me multiculturalism doesn't mean cultural equality, it simply means multiple cultures co-existing within the ironclad parameters that are the law.

Just like a secular state doesn't allow religions with, I don't know, human sacrificial rites, to run rampant, a multicultural state wouldn't (or at least shouldn't) give immunity to crimes committed for cultural reasons.

Your fears that multiculturalism will undoubtedly result in all cultures being protected by the law seems unfounded to me. Just like theocracy isn't the only alternative to secularism, cultural 'equality' is not the only alternative to a monocultural society. There are levels to things, and while it is important to remember that our society shouldn't change our laws simply to accommodate other cultures, I really don't think we're at that stage yet.

 

[LanceRomance]

is multiculturalism the policy that governments talk up to squash debate on immigration?

 

[pokerspiv]

And where is it stated that the Pakistani/Kashmiri community is responsible for the violent sexual abuse of 1,400 girls as you originally claim?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...ngs-while-authorities-turned-a-blind-eye.html

Tuesday’s report concluded that by far the majority of perpetrators were Asian men, and said council officials had been unwilling to address the issue for fear of being labelled racist.

 

[Kynge of Begrem]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...ngs-while-authorities-turned-a-blind-eye.html

Facts aren't your strong point are they? Where does it mention Pakistani/Kasmiri?

 

[illavitar]

Man I'd like to live in Kew or Balwyn if only it were affordable. It's bullshit most Australians cannot afford a single family sized home in those suburbs. I wonder how my grandfathers would feel having built these areas only for their life legacy only to have them bought up by Americanised asians with absolutely no values other than money and self indulgence?

It's quite disgusting really. Ban investment or at least slam foreigners 100% CGT so they can't buy and hold and can only make their profit here through rental yield. Would also mean they need the money up front to receive any benefit... which would also stop them burdening our banks forcing them to increase their lending restriction on FHB as a result of investors pushing up demand and credit. Perfect solution now if only they'd enact it.

 

[MrCharisma]

I wonder how my grandfathers would feel having built these areas only for their life legacy only to have them bought up by Americanised asians with absolutely no values other than money and self indulgence?

 

[The Coup]

That's quite a silly post. Sitting on a bus listening to people babble in different languages tells us nothing about the policies being adopted for various ethnicities. Multiculturalism is about valuing every culture equally and putting in place policies that allow those cultures to exist alongside our culture. So we would have Sharia law for Muslims, traditional law for Aborigines, etc. It's all very nice until the culture is totally at odds with ours.

Get this man a dictionary.

Multiculturalism, Immigration and Separatism are all different words with different meanings, and you seem to think they all mean the same thing.

 

[pokerspiv]

Facts aren't your strong point are they? Where does it mention Pakistani/Kasmiri?

That's what "Asian" means in the UK.