Society/Culture Why is Multiculturalism a good thing?

[clogged]

Just like a secular state doesn't allow religions with, I don't know, human sacrificial rites, to run rampant, a multicultural state wouldn't (or at least shouldn't) give immunity to crimes committed for cultural reasons.

Your fears that multiculturalism will undoubtedly result in all cultures being protected by the law seems unfounded to me. Just like theocracy isn't the only alternative to secularism, cultural 'equality' is not the only alternative to a monocultural society. There are levels to things, and while it is important to remember that our society shouldn't change our laws simply to accommodate other cultures, I really don't think we're at that stage yet.

Reasonable parallel to draw actually.

People talk about the end of Europe through 'multiculturalism' but Europeans have found dozens of reasons to do much worse things to one another. The Thirty Years war was particularly bad.

 

[Lester Burnham]

You seem to be under the impression that the end result of multiculturalism is that all cultures are considered equal and independent/isolated from mainstream society by the law.

I'm not sure who exactly is advocating this and how it would accidentally take place, but I don't think anyone is actually okay with the kind of 'multiculturalism' you're describing. To me multiculturalism doesn't mean cultural equality, it simply means multiple cultures co-existing within the ironclad parameters that are the law.

Just like a secular state doesn't allow religions with, I don't know, human sacrificial rites, to run rampant, a multicultural state wouldn't (or at least shouldn't) give immunity to crimes committed for cultural reasons.

Your fears that multiculturalism will undoubtedly result in all cultures being protected by the law seems unfounded to me. Just like theocracy isn't the only alternative to secularism, cultural 'equality' is not the only alternative to a monocultural society. There are levels to things, and while it is important to remember that our society shouldn't change our laws simply to accommodate other cultures, I really don't think we're at that stage yet.

OK so if multiculturalism is not about cultures being considered equal then what is it? Everyone has to live within Australian law. Why do we need government policy to promote multiple cultures that co-exist within the ironclad parameters that are the law?

It seems to be a fuzzy, feel good way of saying we like the nice aspects of people's cultures whilst also rejecting some of their underlying values. You can cook your traditional food, wear your clothes and speak your language as long as you accept our democratic values, our secular system, our age of consent, our legal system etc. The law is the law, why the need for 'cultural' policies on top of that?

What do you think of people who move here but never learn English?

 

[Lester Burnham]

Facts aren't your strong point are they? Where does it mention Pakistani/Kasmiri?

In the government report.

 

[Richard Pryor]

OK so if multiculturalism is not about cultures being considered equal then what is it? Everyone has to live within Australian law. Why do we need government policy to promote multiple cultures that co-exist within the ironclad parameters that are the law?

If you ask me we don't need to actively promote multiculturalism. It should be a 'natural' process where criminal elements of a culture are stamped out by the law the same way we try to apply the law to anyone else, leaving the legally (and morally) acceptable aspects free to go about their business. Trying to 'force' multiculturalism seems a waste of money to me.

It seems to be a fuzzy, feel good way of saying we like the nice aspects of people's cultures whilst also rejecting some of their underlying values. You can cook your traditional food, wear your clothes and speak your language as long as you accept our democratic values, our secular system, our age of consent, our legal system etc. The law is the law, why the need for 'cultural' policies on top of that?

What exactly is unfuzzy and not feel good about accepting the nice aspects of cultures and rejecting problematic and unlawful values? Again, what are these 'cultural policies' you speak of and who is advocating for them? There is no need for any cultural policies on top of the law to be enforced.

You seem to have a very rigid definition of multiculturalism as this crazy Greens Party policy which I think you'd find hardly anybody actually agrees with. Maybe it's the right definition, I don't know, for me multiculturalism simply means multiple cultures existing in the same place.

What do you think of people who move here but never learn English?

I think their kids most likely will have to learn english in the education system.

 

[smokingjacket]

What do you think of people who move here but never learn English?

Depends. Are they from one of the nice ethnic groups where pop culture has conditioned us to find the non-english speaking elder adorable? Or one those bad ones with the weird languages that sound shouty/catsinabag/terroristy?

If the latter, still gets a pass mark if they can cook duck for Clint Eastwood.

 

[Lester Burnham]

If you ask me we don't need to actively promote multiculturalism. It should be a 'natural' process where criminal elements of a culture are stamped out by the law the same way we try to apply the law to anyone else, leaving the legally (and morally) acceptable aspects free to go about their business.

I agree with this. A person's cultural practices are their own private affair so long as they are within the law.

However, there can still be issues that might cause us to consider changing the law, such as in what circumstances a burka can be worn. And there can be 'cultural sensitivity' blockages to the law being applied correctly such as what occurred in Rotherham, or under-reporting of abuse in Aborigine society.

Trying to 'force' multiculturalism seems a waste of money to me.
What exactly is unfuzzy and not feel good about accepting the nice aspects of cultures and rejecting problematic and unlawful values? Again, what are these 'cultural policies' you speak of and who is advocating for them? There is no need for any cultural policies on top of the law to be enforced.

You seem to have a very rigid definition of multiculturalism as this crazy Greens Party policy which I think you'd find hardly anybody actually agrees with. Maybe it's the right definition, I don't know, for me multiculturalism simply means multiple cultures existing in the same place.

I'm talking about the multiple government bodies that exist to promote multiculturalism. For example, the Victorian Multicultural Commission. One of their objectives is to 'encourage all of Victoria's diverse communities to retain and express their social identity and cultural inheritance'. The underlying assumption being that all cultures are equally valid. Which of course is false. For example, some cultures are more liberal, secular, democratic, tolerant and have better and more open justice systems than others.

Why do we need government bodies to encourage people to retain their cultural inheritance? People are free to do that anyway. What multicultural policy is about is the politicisation of culture - so that diversity is governed by putting people into ethnic and cultural groups. These groups have leaders who exercise political power and put out their hands for funding. When political power and financial resources become allocated by ethnicity then the policy becomes a disincentive to integrate. And as is becoming apparent across Europe it is the failure of certain cultures to integrate that causes social problems.

David Cameron :

"Under the doctrine of state multiculturalism we have encouraged different cultures to live separate lives, apart from each other and the mainstream. We have failed to provide a vision of society to which they feel they want to belong.

We have even tolerated these segregated communities behaving in ways that run counter to our values. So when a white person holds objectionable views - racism, for example we rightly condemn them. But when equally unacceptable views or practices have come from someone who isn’t white, we’ve been too cautious, frankly even fearful, to stand up to them".​

Multiculturalism means well but by emphasising the differences between people it is socially divisive. Cultural groups are less likely to integrate and thus being apart from the rest of society it becomes easier to scapegoat them for a country's social problems. If we accept that there is no biological basis for 'race' then when we talk about policies based on 'cultural inheritance' it's the same as differential policy by race. Like Cameron says, we rightly call out racism, but we should also challenge government policies that are based on race.

 

[Lester Burnham]

Facts aren't your strong point are they? Where does it mention Pakistani/Kasmiri?

The report into child sex exploitation in Oxford has just been a released.

The report called on the government to research why the perpetrators of this type of child abuse – which has been seen in Rochdale, Rotherham, Derby, Bristol and Oxfordshire – were predominantly from a Pakistani and/or Muslim heritage.​

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rochdale_sex_trafficking_gang
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotherham_child_sexual_exploitation_scandal
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derby_sex_gang
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bristol_sex_gang
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telford_sex_gang

Dr Taj Hargey, imam of the Oxford Islamic Congregation, said race and religion were inextricably linked to the recent spate of grooming rings in which Muslim men have targeted under-age white girls.

The activities of the Oxford sex ring are bound up with religion and race because all the men - though of different nationalities - were Muslim and they deliberately targeted vulnerable white girls, whom they appeared to regard as 'easy meat', to use one of their revealing, racist phrases, Dr Hargey said.

That attitude has been promoted by religious leaders, he believes. On one level, most imams in the UK are simply using their puritanical sermons to promote the wearing of the hijab and even the burka among their female adherents. But the dire result can be the brutish misogyny we see in the Oxford sex ring.

People tiptoe around the issues and refuse to discuss the problems exposed by the scandals such as those from Rochdale to Oxford, and Telford to Derby, he wrote. In all cases the perpetrators were Muslim men and the victims were under age white girls. To pretend it is not a problem is the Islamic community is ideological denial, Dr Hargey said.

But then part of the reason this scandal happened at all is precisely because of such politically correct thinking. All the agencies of the state, including the police, the social services and the care system, seemed eager to ignore the sickening exploitation that was happening before their eyes. Terrified of accusations of racism, desperate not to undermine the official creed of cultural diversity, they took no action against obvious abuse.

True Islam preaches respect for women but in mosques across the country a different doctrine is preached - one that denigrates all women, but treats whites with particular contempt, the Imam said. The men are taught that women are second-class citizens, little more than chattels or possessions over whom they have absolute authority," he claims in the column.

The view of some Islamic preachers towards white women can be appalling. They encourage their followers to believe that these women are habitually promiscuous, decadent, and sleazy sins which are made all the worse by the fact that they are kaffurs or non-believers. Their dress code, from miniskirts to sleeveless tops, is deemed to reflect their impure and immoral outlook. According to this mentality, these white women deserve to be punished for their behaviour by being exploited and degraded.​

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...mote-grooming-rings-Muslim-leader-claims.html

 

[LanceRomance]

well that article will rustle some jimmies

 

[CountryRace]

Take It to the conspiracy board

 

[LanceRomance]

Take It to the conspiracy board

why?

 

[CountryRace]

why?

Cause child sex rings can't be discussed here

Maybe it its muslims on white girls, it's ok. I don't quite understand the rules.

 

[LanceRomance]

Cause child sex rings can't be discussed here

?

 

[Gough]

There is an RC on at the moment that might suggest that that sort of thing, sadly, isn't all that uncommon here either.

 

[Kynge of Begrem]

The report into child sex exploitation in Oxford has just been a released.

The report called on the government to research why the perpetrators of this type of child abuse – which has been seen in Rochdale, Rotherham, Derby, Bristol and Oxfordshire – were predominantly from a Pakistani and/or Muslim heritage.​

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rochdale_sex_trafficking_gang
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotherham_child_sexual_exploitation_scandal
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derby_sex_gang
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bristol_sex_gang
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telford_sex_gang

Dr Taj Hargey, imam of the Oxford Islamic Congregation, said race and religion were inextricably linked to the recent spate of grooming rings in which Muslim men have targeted under-age white girls.

The activities of the Oxford sex ring are bound up with religion and race because all the men - though of different nationalities - were Muslim and they deliberately targeted vulnerable white girls, whom they appeared to regard as 'easy meat', to use one of their revealing, racist phrases, Dr Hargey said.

That attitude has been promoted by religious leaders, he believes. On one level, most imams in the UK are simply using their puritanical sermons to promote the wearing of the hijab and even the burka among their female adherents. But the dire result can be the brutish misogyny we see in the Oxford sex ring.

People tiptoe around the issues and refuse to discuss the problems exposed by the scandals such as those from Rochdale to Oxford, and Telford to Derby, he wrote. In all cases the perpetrators were Muslim men and the victims were under age white girls. To pretend it is not a problem is the Islamic community is ideological denial, Dr Hargey said.

But then part of the reason this scandal happened at all is precisely because of such politically correct thinking. All the agencies of the state, including the police, the social services and the care system, seemed eager to ignore the sickening exploitation that was happening before their eyes. Terrified of accusations of racism, desperate not to undermine the official creed of cultural diversity, they took no action against obvious abuse.

True Islam preaches respect for women but in mosques across the country a different doctrine is preached - one that denigrates all women, but treats whites with particular contempt, the Imam said. The men are taught that women are second-class citizens, little more than chattels or possessions over whom they have absolute authority," he claims in the column.

The view of some Islamic preachers towards white women can be appalling. They encourage their followers to believe that these women are habitually promiscuous, decadent, and sleazy sins which are made all the worse by the fact that they are kaffurs or non-believers. Their dress code, from miniskirts to sleeveless tops, is deemed to reflect their impure and immoral outlook. According to this mentality, these white women deserve to be punished for their behaviour by being exploited and degraded.​

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/10061217/Imams-promote-grooming-rings-Muslim-leader-claims.html

thanks for posting.

 

[Kynge of Begrem]

?

He is referring to some tripe from anonymous that he posted here about an alleged satanic cult sex ring that cooked babies in a McDonalds in England (the claims were part of a child custody dispute).

The thread was moved to the conspiracy board - an extract of the claims:

Christ Church Hill London NW3 1JH. Telephone number: 020 7435 1361, together with at least another 7 schools: Highgate school, Heathside school, Fitzjohn’s primary, Perrochio school, New End, Northbridge, Devonshire house, possibly more schools involved.
The school staff and parents, priest, others involved are doing sex to boys’ and girls’ bottoms with the large plastic willies.
Adults force the children to do oral sex.Babies are supplied regularly for the rituals: abused, tortured with the rat traps, dropped on the floor (often bleed), then killed. They put them to sleep by injecting, slit baby’s throat, drain blood, drink the blood and then cook the body by either roasting or frying. The meat is eaten by the leader Mr Dearman, teachers, 20 special children and their parents.
The baby sexual abuse and sacrifices are going on Tuesday, Wednesday (big sex day), Thursday. On Wednesdays, my children, Alisa and Gabriel have been abused by at least 60-70 people including 20 special children (the children are taught to abuse each other).
I was wondering why my children were often pretending sick and refused to go to school on Wednesdays.

 

[Kynge of Begrem]

Cause child sex rings can't be discussed here

Maybe it its muslims on white girls, it's ok. I don't quite understand the rules.

The difference is that the Rochester findings are the result of a police investigation whereas the tripe you posted is nothing more than lunatic ramblings.

 

[CountryRace]

The difference is that the Rochester findings are the result of a police investigation whereas the tripe you posted is nothing more than lunatic ramblings.

Yeah sure thing

 

[CountryRace]

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elm_Guest_House_child_abuse_scandal

 

[LanceRomance]

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elm_Guest_House_child_abuse_scandal

Two separate issues... both equally depraved

1) illegal activities arranged for the elite and covered up by authorities

2) attitudes conveyed to a section of the community through religious preachings.

 

[CountryRace]

You reckon the police are going to investigate those 'above' them?

The difference is that the Rochester findings are the result of a police investigation whereas the tripe you posted is nothing more than lunatic ramblings.

 

[raghav]

Cause child sex rings can't be discussed here

Maybe it its muslims on white girls, it's ok. I don't quite understand the rules.[/QUOTE]

Not surprising!