Will Dawes Make It?

[Quicky]

I'm with you TRS I can't believe the crap this guy gets. Believe people believe

He cops criticism because he has some very serious flaws in his game which if aren't addressed will probably mean he doesn't make the grade. At his size and pace he really needs to be able to take contested and overhead marks. Atm he rarely does either. If he can add this and greater aggression to his game he has a chance. His contested marking was a feature of his game as a junior footballer but so far he hasn't really replicated this against the bigger bodies in the AFL or even VFL. Whether this is a confidence or technique issue i'm unsure - i'm hopin for our sake that it's the former.

 

[TradeDraft]

He cops criticism because he has some very serious flaws in his game which if aren't addressed will probably mean he doesn't make the grade. At his size and pace he really needs to be able to take contested and overhead marks. Atm he rarely does either. If he can add this and greater aggression to his game he has a chance. His contested marking was a feature of his game as a junior footballer but so far he hasn't really replicated this against the bigger bodies in the AFL or even VFL. Whether this is a confidence or technique issue i'm unsure - i'm hopin for our sake that it's the former.

Well I agree his Overhead Marking needs Work.

I think he could of been a guy who Dominated in the Underage because of the Big Body so he is finding it hard not doing that at Senior Level

 

[JOELY]

I think it's pretty simple. Improve his contested marking, and he makes it. If he can become a contested marking threat, he'll attract a taller defender who he can expose with his good straight line pace, and awesome endurance, and won't be found out as much when the ball hits the deck.

And this isn't mystery to Dawes and the club. He's working on it, but it's pretty tough to go from not being good in an area, to being AFL standard. I really hope he makes it because I reckon he's got some great attributes, and is so close to making it. He's a great size, and is athletic. Got elite endurance, and seems to have a good footy brain. Just need to take some in the DUKES!

Wouldn't mind seeing him knock a few blokes over as well. He's always had the size, but I'm not sure about the super strength and hardness. These things take multiple pre-seasons to build up I guess. Some of the training photos have him look beastly, so hopefully he can follow leigh brown and produce some ANVIL moments.

 

[On the March]

He cops criticism because he has some very serious flaws in his game which if aren't addressed will probably mean he doesn't make the grade. At his size and pace he really needs to be able to take contested and overhead marks. Atm he rarely does either. If he can add this and greater aggression to his game he has a chance. His contested marking was a feature of his game as a junior footballer but so far he hasn't really replicated this against the bigger bodies in the AFL or even VFL. Whether this is a confidence or technique issue i'm unsure - i'm hopin for our sake that it's the former.

Fair enough Quicky, at least thats a reasoned response rather than some of the bashing I've seen this guy get on here. I just see something, something special and I think he should begiven a crack to show that. The last thing I want is to get to the end of this year and we're still not sure.

 

[TradeDraft]

Fair enough Quicky, at least thats a reasoned response rather than some of the bashing I've seen this guy get on here. I just see something, something special and I think he should begiven a crack to show that. The last thing I want is to get to the end of this year and we're still not sure.

Agree- Should be given a go to see if he can make it.

like the cats did with Hawkins last season

 

[Quicky]

Agree- Should be given a go to see if he can make it.

like the cats did with Hawkins last season

Which goes back to issue of gifting games to players. We can't afford to do this if we are serious about having a crack at a premiership. As has been mentioned there are probably a few ahead of him atm. If Dawes can string consistent very good form together in the twos he'll deserve a chance - if theres a spot available in the team. But it's his spot to earn.

 

[augie]

[youtube]CNIy0VlBiXY[/youtube]

If you watch this Video you see him getting stuck into Luenberger in the U-18 Championships of 2006

That video seems to confirm one of the key concerns about Dawes. Not a single one-grab mark where there was any sort of pressure on him.

 

[shawthing09]

I would prefer Dawes at full forward kicking 2-3 goals a game then Anthony. I rate Anthony but just size wise I just think that he would really be able to impose himself on a game a lot more.

Well I agree his Overhead Marking needs Work.

I think he could of been a guy who Dominated in the Underage because of the Big Body so he is finding it hard not doing that at Senior Level

Agree- Should be given a go to see if he can make it.

like the cats did with Hawkins last season

Dave as Quicky has mentioned we are not in a position to be gifting players games. Hawkins was not gifted games for Geelong last year he was actually in their best 22 for 2 reasons one he is a more solid structural player then Dawes and 2 they have a lack of other key foward options.

As for where you rate him against other players your intitled to your opinion but the fact is the others all have key factors over him. Cloke and Anthony clearly 1 and 2. Leroy is a good example of what Didaka has mentioned in that he makes up for his flaws with aggression and relentless attack on the ball because of that he plays as a structural foward. He has been the best KF of the pre-season. Rusling has better hands and pace making him again a better target.

On the FF and big body stuff that is simply not the way he plays you can be 200 cm 110 kg and strong as an ox but if you play a game style where you are relying on leading into space and marking on your chest you really aren't making any use of that size and strength. Dawes never plays to his height or size so his height and size are irrelevant atm.

On Smiddaz point of Cloke V Dawes, Dawes has intelligence with the ball and kicking smarts over Cloke but so long as Cloke is lightyears ahead when it comes to being a target and winning the ball so those other 2 don't really come into it.

There are a few cases of people whose marking over head gets better over time but most of those are guys who had very hard hands when going for it, Dawes problem is different at times it looks so incredible unco but he is in general well co-ordinated. It may well be that he is takes his eye of the ball to early.

 

[TradeDraft]

Sounds like he really had a Good Game last Night

 

[loki04]

Dave as Quicky has mentioned we are not in a position to be gifting players games. Hawkins was not gifted games for Geelong last year he was actually in their best 22 for 2 reasons one he is a more solid structural player then Dawes and 2 they have a lack of other key foward options.

As for where you rate him against other players your intitled to your opinion but the fact is the others all have key factors over him. Cloke and Anthony clearly 1 and 2. Leroy is a good example of what Didaka has mentioned in that he makes up for his flaws with aggression and relentless attack on the ball because of that he plays as a structural foward. He has been the best KF of the pre-season. Rusling has better hands and pace making him again a better target.

On the FF and big body stuff that is simply not the way he plays you can be 200 cm 110 kg and strong as an ox but if you play a game style where you are relying on leading into space and marking on your chest you really aren't making any use of that size and strength. Dawes never plays to his height or size so his height and size are irrelevant atm.

On Smiddaz point of Cloke V Dawes, Dawes has intelligence with the ball and kicking smarts over Cloke but so long as Cloke is lightyears ahead when it comes to being a target and winning the ball so those other 2 don't really come into it.

There are a few cases of people whose marking over head gets better over time but most of those are guys who had very hard hands when going for it, Dawes problem is different at times it looks so incredible unco but he is in general well co-ordinated. It may well be that he is takes his eye of the ball to early.

Hawkins form did not warrant selection , so on that basis he was gifted games.
Also Dawes in his limited time in the AFL has shown as much as Hawkins has but with less time and no real consistancy in games strung together.

 

[smiddaz123]

Hawkins was not gifted games. Who deserved games ahead of him but didn't get them? Hawkins was obviously Geelong's second best KPF imo.

 

[loki04]

Hawkins was not gifted games. Who deserved games ahead of him but didn't get them? Hawkins was obviously Geelong's second best KPF imo.

Hawkins played more shit games then good games, he was given games to develope into the role.

He rarely had any standout VFL form and his AFL form has been very meh.

We have excess KPP that is the only reason Dawes has not been as fortunate.

 

[smiddaz123]

Hawkins played more shit games then good games, he was given games to develope into the role.

He rarely had any standout VFL form and his AFL form has been very meh.

We have excess KPP that is the only reason Dawes has not been as fortunate.

....yeh, so answer my question. Who should have been in ahead of Hawkins if it was best 22.

 

[loki04]

....yeh, so answer my question. Who should have been in ahead of Hawkins if it was best 22.

Whoever geelong had performing at said time, I'm only applying the same form as what people are saying Dawes needs to him and he wouldn't measure up either.

I don't take a massive interest in their vfl side but i have seen the result of his games in the vfl (plus watched most of his AFL games) and he was not "deserving" either, but I don't disagree with getting games and experience into him. Just saying in comparison with Dawes, Hawkins hasn't done a lot either.

 

[Lockyer24]

I don't think Dawes will make it at the Pies.

Have a feeling he will be traded at year end - at best he will be a Brad Miller type.

 

[knightwheelrqr]

I think he can.

Maybe not at Collingwood, but he is showing positive signs that he can.

 

[Quicky]

Hawkins form did not warrant selection , so on that basis he was gifted games.
Also Dawes in his limited time in the AFL has shown as much as Hawkins has but with less time and no real consistancy in games strung together.

I think it's fair to argue that Hawkins was ahead of Lonergan and Gamble for that second key forward position. Especially from a structural perspective, Hawkins is the best bet to bring the ball to ground bringing Geelongs dangerous small forwards into the game. This is how Geelong sets up and is how they play at their most dangerous. Hawkins is the best fit for that role in their team.

 

[shawthing09]

Hawkins form did not warrant selection , so on that basis he was gifted games.
Also Dawes in his limited time in the AFL has shown as much as Hawkins has but with less time and no real consistancy in games strung together.

Yes Hawkins AFL gametime was due to a lack of depth but that proves my point. Geelong weren't giving him games because he needed it to develop they pick him because he was in their best side it says more for their foward depth then it does Hawkins as a player but that isn't what is being discussed. Hawkin's gametime in the seniors didn't magically turn him into a superstar overnight as people have suggested it will do Dawes.

 

[Wooljay]

Personally I don't think he'll be the forward Collingwood needs, I wouldn't even be mildly surprised if he was trade bait at the end of the season. Would be thrilled to get a decent player exchange out of him unless he truly blasts out of the stocks in 2010.

 

[pauly_moss]

Young Big bodies always take longer to develop its the same with Reid and Brown will be very good players just need time, they all need to play a few games this year I would only start to worry if they cant make it in the yar 2011. I think because of how blessed we were with how good Cloke was at such a young age that we judge these players against him. I still believe Cloke has plenty of improvement in him to

 

[DWil6]

Statistically, for what it is worth, Dawes and Hawkins are very closely matched. Hawkins slightly ahead in the stats we'd expect, contested marks etc, Dawes ahead in possessions. Having said that, Dawes has a sample size of 4 games to Hawkins 24.

http://www.pro-stats.com.au/psw/web/compare_players?tid1=104&pid1=2007037&tid2=107&pid2=2007064

 

[Wooljay]

Statistically, for what it is worth, Dawes and Hawkins are very closely matched. Hawkins slightly ahead in the stats we'd expect, contested marks etc, Dawes ahead in possessions. Having said that, Dawes has a sample size of 4 games to Hawkins 24.

http://www.pro-stats.com.au/psw/web/compare_players?tid1=104&pid1=2007037&tid2=107&pid2=2007064

Yeah, no comparrison at this point.

 

[dswan]

I love Chris Dawes, but am sensing a distinct lack of belief in his future as a forward, so am seeking clarification.

And if you think he'll come good, how long is it likely to take?

Yes he will take Clokes spot

 

[Wooljay]

Yes he will take Clokes spot

Jokes all round.

 

[Copeland]

Is contested marking as important nowadays, the way the games played teams are lucky to reach double figures in this area. Do we just need him to improve his basic overhead marking?