Williams chasing a ruckman

[rohansword]

FFS. If you s**t 3 times on a plate in front of us instead of once, it's still s**t. Quantity does not equal quality. Or how about we trade you Giles, and our second and third round picks for Watts. We'll throw in our 5th round pick if need be.

Is brogan s**t? because stats say jamar and brogan are pretty similar. and pick 11 is far from s**t.


Jamar averaged
11 disposals, 1 goal, and 23 h/o per game. An average of 81sc and 72 dt.

Brogan
12 disposals, 0.4 goals, and 22 h/o per game 77 sc, 71 dt.

hmmmm good luck without Lade next year.

 

[Phhht]

So in other words, if we don't get a stopgap, but just wait a year and play Lobbe as second ruck, we have a ruckman just as developed as Hampson, for free.

There you go again - you say stop gap, I say lead ruckman. What is wrong with having 2 good ruckmen.....gee did we do that poorly out of Lade and Brogan?

You obviously rate Hampson as nothing more than a 1 year stop-gap? That's fine we agree to disagree. Can I ask you what makes you think that Lobbe will step up and be our longterm ruck answer - other than assumption? And even if he does, what is so wrong with having Lobbe AND Hampson as our 2 rucks, for the next 5-8 years?

As above. We're not going to win the premiership next year, so how about we develop a ****ing ruckman.

And again....why isn't that ruckman that we are going to develop Hampson? I dont want him for some mythical premiership that you think I am chasing for next year. He is 22 years old not friggin 28. I want Hampson so that we can develop him into being a PART of a LONGTERM lead ruck combination. I reckon with him AND Lobbe/Redden we may have the makings of very good ruck depth.

And as for the alternatives??? What I actually meant was who do you think we should get for Shaun???
Who is available at pick 9 (???) or player swap that offers an alternative value to Hampson? I aint against getting a better prospect, just name that prospect? If you said to me that we could swap Shaun for Lewis or Sewell....where do we sign. But that doesn't look like it. The best we seem to be hearing is pick 9 + Schoenmakers/Thorp/Dowler etc. If that is the best we get are you suggesting we spend pick 9 on what??? another KPF, midfielder, hff ???? what??? Give me some options that we can debate the merits about rather than the standard - stop-gap hack is all we are getting.

 

[Enviable Tradition]

Is brogan s**t? because stats say jamar and brogan are pretty similar. and pick 11 is far from s**t.


Jamar averaged
11 disposals, 1 goal, and 23 h/o per game. An average of 81sc and 72 dt.

Brogan
12 disposals, 0.4 goals, and 22 h/o per game 77 sc, 71 dt.

hmmmm good luck without Lade next year.

You seem to have answered your own question here, yes Port had Lade as well. Brogan shares the duties with Lade so of course his stats are going to be lower. Brogan also has more physical presence and is great at the one percenters.

 

[DaVe86]

OK guys, serious talk time.


We need a top 10 to secure Fevola.

You need a ruckman, and probably want to keep a first round pick.


So, Pick 14 + Josh Fraser for Pick 9 + 2nd rounder?

We then use Pick 9 on Fev.

You guys get another first rounder from Hawthorn for Burgoyne. You guys have Pick 8 & 14 & Fraser for the loss of Burgoyne, Pick 9 and 2nd rounder.

We get Fev and 2nd round pick for Pick 14 + Fraser + Dawes

We use your 2nd round pick for Kennedy from Hawthorn.

 

[Powerade 08]

^
Yea, only problem is we are getting a player we don't want and a pretty bad deal compared to simply going to Hawthorn and asking for pick 9 and a young player.

 

[Shaucob_Burjan]

9 for Sidebottom.

 

[Enviable Tradition]

OK guys, serious talk time.


We need a top 10 to secure Fevola.

You need a ruckman, and probably want to keep a first round pick.


So, Pick 14 + Josh Fraser for Pick 9 + 2nd rounder?

We then use Pick 9 on Fev.

You guys get another first rounder from Hawthorn for Burgoyne. You guys have Pick 8 & 14 & Fraser for the loss of Burgoyne, Pick 9 and 2nd rounder.

We get Fev and 2nd round pick for Pick 14 + Fraser + Dawes

We use your 2nd round pick for Kennedy from Hawthorn.

Umm.. You do realise we already have pick 8 dont you?

You may as well say we get Boak, Hartlett, Tredrea, 8, 14 and Frazer lol.

We actually get pick 14 and Frazer for Burgoyne and a 2nd rounder. I wouldnt be happy with that even if we were keeping the second rounder.

 

[rohansword]

You seem to have answered your own question here, yes Port had Lade as well. Brogan shares the duties with Lade so of course his stats are going to be lower. Brogan also has more physical presence and is great at the one percenters.

I see where your coming from but like all ruckman, Jamar shared ruck duties with Johnson, Martin and Spencer

Brogan is equal to Jamar. Almost same height and weight, stats similar etc.

#1 Fre, #2 Pa, 3# Mel for hitouts against. Both Melbourne and PA did a good job in the ruck this year.

BUT I'm just saying you will need a quality second ruckman without Lade. Your stuffed if Brogan goes down.

If you don't go for a player like Jamar thats fine, but you'll need to consider players like hampson.

 

[Bugiera]

Give the young lads a go, especially Lobbe!

They've shown good potential, and now is the time to give them the chance to fulfill it.

Give them some responsibility to shoulder and see how they deal with it, it worked wonders for Patty Ryder

 

[Enviable Tradition]

I see where your coming from but like all ruckman, Jamar shared ruck duties with Johnson, Martin and Spencer

Brogan is equal to Jamar. Almost same height and weight, stats similar etc.

#1 Fre, #2 Pa, 3# Mel for hitouts against. Both Melbourne and PA did a good job in the ruck this year.

BUT I'm just saying you will need a quality second ruckman without Lade. Your stuffed if Brogan goes down.

If you don't go for a player like Jamar thats fine, but you'll need to consider players like hampson.

Just curious, how many games have you seen Lobbe play?

 

[RangaInTeal]

OK guys, serious talk time.


We need a top 10 to secure Fevola.

You need a ruckman, and probably want to keep a first round pick.


So, Pick 14 + Josh Fraser for Pick 9 + 2nd rounder?

We then use Pick 9 on Fev.

You guys get another first rounder from Hawthorn for Burgoyne. You guys have Pick 8 & 14 & Fraser for the loss of Burgoyne, Pick 9 and 2nd rounder.

We get Fev and 2nd round pick for Pick 14 + Fraser + Dawes

We use your 2nd round pick for Kennedy from Hawthorn.

Maybe Wood but I doubt either!

 

[Portia]

There you go again - you say stop gap, I say lead ruckman. What is wrong with having 2 good ruckmen.....gee did we do that poorly out of Lade and Brogan?

Nothing is wrong with having 2 good ruckmen.

Can I ask you what makes you think that Lobbe will step up and be our longterm ruck answer - other than assumption? And even if he does, what is so wrong with having Lobbe AND Hampson as our 2 rucks, for the next 5-8 years?

How about that it costs an extra first round pick more than having Lobbe & Redden as our 2 rucks for the next 5-8 years?

And again....why isn't that ruckman that we are going to develop Hampson?

Why isn't it anyone then? Why Hampson?

Tell me why Hampson is going to be a better ruck option than Lobbe or Redden.

And as for the alternatives??? What I actually meant was who do you think we should get for Shaun???
Who is available at pick 9 (???) or player swap that offers an alternative value to Hampson? I aint against getting a better prospect, just name that prospect? If you said to me that we could swap Shaun for Lewis or Sewell....where do we sign. But that doesn't look like it. The best we seem to be hearing is pick 9 + Schoenmakers/Thorp/Dowler etc. If that is the best we get are you suggesting we spend pick 9 on what??? another KPF, midfielder, hff ???? what??? Give me some options that we can debate the merits about rather than the standard - stop-gap hack is all we are getting.

Trading pick 9 for Hampson doesn't fix this....it means instead of pick 9 + a low-grade Hawks player, we get Hampson + a low grade Hawks player. Still underwhelming. If you're suggesting pick 9 + Hampson, thats certainly an upgrade on the 9+Kennedy option, but I don't believe you are.

The issue with trading for Hampson is that the ruck is a specialist position, he is a speculative get, and we have already invested a large amount of time, money draft picks into speculative gets that we haven't even tested yet. There are a maximum of three spots in the AFL side that a ruckman can be in, and ideally only two. One is filled. Why do we want to add a third competitor for the second spot when we quite probably already have an equally good 2nd ruck on our list right now, and at no further cost?

This is more than `specific player' we're discussing, this is list strategy.

 

[franjon]

SOmeone kick Choco out of the trade room.

And now you're throwing Laidley in their with him. Expect to be giving lifelines to the Chad Fletcher'a and trading your first pick on the Simon Taylor's.

 

[RangaInTeal]

Is brogan s**t? because stats say jamar and brogan are pretty similar. and pick 11 is far from s**t.


Jamar averaged
11 disposals, 1 goal, and 23 h/o per game. An average of 81sc and 72 dt.

Brogan
12 disposals, 0.4 goals, and 22 h/o per game 77 sc, 71 dt.

hmmmm good luck without Lade next year.

Sorry, Here is moddern Football again, Kane Cornes Must be our Greatest player ever, SANFL/AFL

NO offence, But Brogan is one of the best ruckmen in the comp, unfortunate he has had to play seccond fiddle to one of the greatest ruckmen of our time!

 

[rohansword]

Just curious, how many games have you seen Lobbe play?

Has PA given him a chance? no games mate. All i know is he was a first rd selection. PA should give him a chance but i wouldn't want an untrailled ruckman as my number 2.

 

[rohansword]

Sorry, Here is moddern Football again, Kane Cornes Must be our Greatest player ever, SANFL/AFL

NO offence, But Brogan is one of the best ruckmen in the comp, unfortunate he has had to play seccond fiddle to one of the greatest ruckmen of our time!

Sorry to say but Brogan isn't as good as Clark, Cox, McIntosh and Sandilands.

If he was one of the best he'd be considered for AA.

 

[Triple E]

Is brogan s**t? because stats say jamar and brogan are pretty similar. and pick 11 is far from s**t.


Jamar averaged
11 disposals, 1 goal, and 23 h/o per game. An average of 81sc and 72 dt.

Brogan
12 disposals, 0.4 goals, and 22 h/o per game 77 sc, 71 dt.

hmmmm good luck without Lade next year.

Hit outs dont matter unless they are to advantage.
Brogan led the comp in most hit outs to advantage
How well did Jamar do

 

[raymagoo]

I love hampson, a very very athletic player, seems to have a natural leap not far off nicnat and can run. definately a project player, but started paying big dividends this year. when he learns where to tap the ball and where to run to i think he will make all australian in about 5 years! Is starting to clunk his marks but has brain fades and clumsy moments, not bad at ground level for a big fella either, good kick handballing iffy. I would be gutted if he left carlton but we do have a surplus of rucks. If sauce sammy jacobs is offered would be well worth it, he's a monster and when he strenghens up more will be a great tap ruckman! positions himself well on the ground too.

ports only problem is if dean bogan injures himself you will have very inexperienced rucks playing against the likes of cox, jolly. But in the long run blooding these players soon is great whilst your not vying for the premiership currently?

 

[noffle]

I would be disappointed if we traded for Hampson. Taps skills and rucking nouse can be acquired skills from experience, and I don't think Hampson has enough around the ground skill for us to give up the luxury of two first round draft picks.

 

[year of the cat]

Mark Blake anyone?

 

[Spadge]

ports only problem is if dean bogan injures himself you will have very inexperienced rucks playing against the likes of cox, jolly. But in the long run blooding these players soon is great whilst your not vying for the premiership currently?

yes i think port should be blooding them now... but think about it
dean goes down.. we have 2 (possibly 3) ruckmen who havent played a single game of AFL footy

panic is setting in and i see us working to trade for a ruck
hopefully not for over odds

 

[Alpha1]

Sorry Hammo is going nowhere, the kid is starting to come along nicely. Has speed to burn for a 200+cm player, big body and has developed well. The thing is Carlton don't want to trade him, I think Port are the ones who have asked about him. I hope he goes nowhere, tons of ability and is ready to burst on the AFL in 2010.

 

[rohansword]

Hit outs dont matter unless they are to advantage.
Brogan led the comp in most hit outs to advantage
How well did Jamar do

You tell me.

 

[Forzaport]

This is more than `specific player' we're discussing, this is list strategy.

So with list strategy, if we don't use pick#9 on a ruckman who may not be any better than lobbe, what would be the best option?

Trade in and inside mid?

Draft a KPF like Butcher?

What would you do?

 

[DaVe86]

Umm.. You do realise we already have pick 8 dont you?

You may as well say we get Boak, Hartlett, Tredrea, 8, 14 and Frazer lol.

We actually get pick 14 and Frazer for Burgoyne and a 2nd rounder. I wouldnt be happy with that even if we were keeping the second rounder.

sorry mate, i got the draft order wrong. Thought Hawks had 8 and you 9.



Deal would be:

Fraser + 14 -->> Pick 9 + 2nd Round

We then give Pick 9 to Carlton for Fev.



That would still leave you with Pick 8 and 14 in this years draft. After that, the draft tapers off.