Current Trial Wonnangatta - Murders of Russell Hill & Carol Clay *Pilot Greg Lynn Pleads Not Guilty

[Kurve]

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Israel Keyes

On the Greg Lynn committal proceedings Crown Prosecutor Mr Dickie said 'It is clear hopefully from the document, and if it's not clear from the document it's clear hopefully from the charges put before the court, that it is alleged of course that the accused acted with murderous intent when he allegedly killed the two victims.'

 

[Terrafirma]

Not sure if you've spent much time in the HC, but alpine rivers are rarely deep enough at the end of summer to cover the height of a 4wd.

This! 100% my first thought. The track isn't as narrow as some at that point and turning a vehicle sans trailer would have been a hell of a lot easier. I can imagine him swearing his head off though, as just beyond the gate is a perfect place to turn around.
From the witness statement re him asking about best camp sites (assuming it was him) leads me to believe it was possibly his first time in the valley and wouldn't have known where that gate was, even if he had the info that is was closed (and had been pretty much since the fires). Could also explain why he hotfoot it up the unknown Herne Spur rather than going back up Zeka (he'd come down it and made the assessment that going up would have been a slog in the dark). IMO

Yeah when I first heard he asked a worker about the best campsites I wasn't sure what to make of it. If it was his 1st time it suggests some other things.

1: His navigator would have been on.
2: He couldn't have known about the burial location.
3: It wouldn't have been a campsite dispute.
4: He wouldn't have known about the gate, he is simply going by his navigator.
5: He drove around with the bodies in the trailer looking for a a spot to put them.
6: He chose another track out such as the Herne Spur as you suggested because it was dark
7: He didn't leave the campsite just to dump the bodies and then return 3 hours later to set fire to the evidence.
8. Good chance his mobile was on as he may not know there is no reception and leaving it on waiting for reception. (This one arguments for & against)

There maybe a few others but if it is true and it's his first time there it changes quite a few things from a logical point of view

 

[Awakening]

Most of his actions on the night that are alleged don't paint a picture of someone very smart but more so of someone who's shitting themselves and panicking because he's just killed an elderly couple after getting into an altercation with the man.

Even the turnaround at the gate - if you are thinking clearly you get the jockey wheel out, unhitch and swing the trailer around. Turn the vehicle around on its own and hitch up again. Instead it looks like he tries turning around with the trailer hitched up on a narrow track - possible but very time consuming and not the logical thing to do.

It even appears that he left his phone on for his subsequent journey out of the 'gatta and his phone ended up pinging whenever he came within mobile reception. Again, obviously not thinking clearly but acting in a panic. And like you say, he could have stuffed all their crap in their vehicle and rolled it off a cliff somewhere (although he would have to walk back to his vehicle limiting his range to a 2 hour walk back to camp at most). It would have been assumed that the couple had moved campsites as the last known position of them would have been the 6pm radio call.


There were multiple alternative routes out of the area that probably didn't have CCTV footage either, Hotham was the one that definitely did with its resort cameras.

After killing, putting 2 bodies on and off the trailer and burying them, poor bloke probably did his back in, so couldn't unhitch.

 

[Badd0g]

Yeah when I first heard he asked a worker about the best campsites I wasn't sure what to make of it. If it was his 1st time it suggests some other things.

1: His navigator would have been on.
2: He couldn't have known about the burial location.
3: It wouldn't have been a campsite dispute.
4: He wouldn't have known about the gate, he is simply going by his navigator.
5: He drove around with the bodies in the trailer looking for a a spot to put them. *
6: He chose another track out such as the Herne Spur as you suggested because it was dark
7: He didn't leave the campsite just to dump the bodies and then return 3 hours later to set fire to the evidence.
8. Good chance his mobile was on as he may not know there is no reception and leaving it on waiting for reception. (This one arguments for & against)

There maybe a few others but if it is true and it's his first time there it changes quite a few things from a logical point of view

1.
2. I recall reading somewhere he had been to GHA before - can't recall where
3. This is still a possibility, as he (if the reports of an odd guy in a blue Patrol being there on the Wednesday are correct) was already in the "prime" spot
4.
5. Not sold on it being completely random, if he had indeed been to GHA before, but it does beg the question of why he drove so far before disposal.
6.
7.
8. I reckon he figured there was none and that the high point of Mt Cynthia was a fluke - coverage shows no 3G reception but probs enough to get a bar for SMS so therefore enough to get a cell tower ping.

 

[Terrafirma]

1.
2. I recall reading somewhere he had been to GHA before - can't recall where
3. This is still a possibility, as he (if the reports of an odd guy in a blue Patrol being there on the Wednesday are correct) was already in the "prime" spot
4.
5. Not sold on it being completely random, if he had indeed been to GHA before, but it does beg the question of why he drove so far before disposal.
6.
7.
8. I reckon he figured there was none and that the high point of Mt Cynthia was a fluke - coverage shows no 3G reception but probs enough to get a bar for SMS so therefore enough to get a cell tower ping.

OK so you saying he'd been to Grant Historic Area before but not the Valley.?

 

[Terrafirma]

Just a question for everyone who has camped within Wonnangatta? What are the most popular camping sites in the area?

 

[Badd0g]

OK so you saying he'd been to Grant Historic Area before but not the Valley.?

Yup

Just a question for everyone who has camped within Wonnangatta? What are the most popular camping sites in the area?

There are 3 spots that have good river access ...Dry River, The Homestead area and Conglomerate creek area. Dry River is tucked away from the track, which makes it less noisy/dusty than the Homestead. I've not camped at Conglomerate, but it's between 2 tracks and would be like being camped beside a highway at busy times I would imagine. You can literally camp anywhere along the valley, but river "frontage" is prime real estate.

 

[FR0GGY]

I haven’t followed this overly closely, but I’ve seen people say they’ve know who did it for a long time.
What was the giveaway? The roadside camera.
Why wait until now?
He changed the colour of his car before it was released to the public and they released it as blue (so did they actually know who they were looking for)

 

[Badd0g]

I haven’t followed this overly closely, but I’ve seen people say they’ve know who did it for a long time.
What was the giveaway? The roadside camera.
Why wait until now?
He changed the colour of his car before it was released to the public and they released it as blue (so did they actually know who they were looking for)

I'd suggest they had mobile phone data from all of the cell towers in the area - they tracked him down to interview him last year, so they must have had something to indicate he was there. Probably raised some suspicion when he didn't respond to the public appeal to come forward if in the area, too. Then they've looked at all the exits paths out of the valley and paired up people's accounts with cctv - there's two main routes to get back to Melbourne from there (discounting the track out to Myrtleford) and both have cameras : GA rd and Gippy Hwy). Paired with the info given re the Blue patrol with trailer seen near the campsite and his attestation that he didn't see them...I'm guessing they've done some pretty serious cross referencing to nab him.

 

[Terrafirma]

I'd suggest they had mobile phone data from all of the cell towers in the area - they tracked him down to interview him last year, so they must have had something to indicate he was there. Probably raised some suspicion when he didn't respond to the public appeal to come forward if in the area, too. Then they've looked at all the exits paths out of the valley and paired up people's accounts with cctv - there's two main routes to get back to Melbourne from there (discounting the track out to Myrtleford) and both have cameras : GA rd and Gippy Hwy). Paired with the info given re the Blue patrol with trailer seen near the campsite and his attestation that he didn't see them...I'm guessing they've done some pretty serious cross referencing to nab him.

Yeah his defense lawyer said the case against him was very substantial and detailed

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Yeah his defense lawyer said the case against him was very substantial and detailed

So do they have all the facts? Does that means he came clean? Sounds like it.

 

[Terrafirma]

So do they have all the facts? Does that means he came clean? Sounds like it.

Too early to say but I think he gave them a version of events that started with Hill provoking him perhaps?

 

[Badd0g]

Here's something for you all to chew on....
The pic at Hotham had some pretty distinct shadows: the tree shadows on the road are almost perpendicular with the road, indicating the sun was well up (that stretch of road runs almost true north-west, so the sun would have had to have been in the north-east) and the shadow cast from the PVC pipe on the car indicates that the sun was at least overhead of the car somewhat to cast a downward shadow. The whole early morning thing was bugging me. The cameras are about 1km from our ski lodge, so I'm pretty familiar with where the sun hits and when up there.

I popped the location and a 2m high object into a shadow calculator for the morning of 21/3/2020.
Looks like that car went through there late morning rather than early morning. Allowing loads of time to do what needed to be done and probably even have a kip!

 

[Badd0g]

Yeah his defense lawyer said the case against him was very substantial and detailed

I didn't see that Terrafirma, where was that reported?
EDIT: Nevermind...found it

 

[Terrafirma]

Here's something for you all to chew on....
The pic at Hotham had some pretty distinct shadows: the tree shadows on the road are almost perpendicular with the road, indicating the sun was well up (that stretch of road runs almost true north-west, so the sun would have had to have been in the north-east) and the shadow cast from the PVC pipe on the car indicates that the sun was at least overhead of the car somewhat to cast a downward shadow. The whole early morning thing was bugging me. The cameras are about 1km from our ski lodge, so I'm pretty familiar with where the sun hits and when up there.

I popped the location and a 2m high object into a shadow calculator for the morning of 21/3/2020.
Looks like that car went through there late morning rather than early morning. Allowing loads of time to do what needed to be done and probably even have a kip!
View attachment 1293354
View attachment 1293314
View attachment 1293316
View attachment 1293318

You have been busy ..! Yes this is interesting. He may have snuck in a KIP as you say.

 

[Zidane98]

I haven’t followed this overly closely, but I’ve seen people say they’ve know who did it for a long time.
What was the giveaway? The roadside camera.
Why wait until now?
He changed the colour of his car before it was released to the public and they released it as blue (so did they actually know who they were looking for)

It seems his vehicle was the last one they accounted for in their investigations. They were looking for a white dual cab ute owner earlier this year who came forward and was subsequently ruled out. Once they had absolutely eliminated any other possible suspects it was time for them to arrest him. I would imagine the coppers must have had something concrete linking him to the crime / crime scene to go ahead with the arrest.

The only plausible options to me are a) His DNA inside / on victim's vehicle. b) we know he took his phone on the trip to Grant HA. It would be incredibly dumb but maybe he took one or both of their phones, left them on and they got matching pings to his own handset. c) Even though the campsite was burnt down they either still possibly recovered his DNA or the gas bottle used to ignite the fire was traced back to him.


I honestly can't really imagine any other concrete evidence that could possibly link him to the crime. And I doubt he was arrested just on the basis of him being in the area at the right time.

 

[sprockets]

It seems his vehicle was the last one they accounted for in their investigations. They were looking for a white dual cab ute owner earlier this year who came forward and was subsequently ruled out. Once they had absolutely eliminated any other possible suspects it was time for them to arrest him. I would imagine the coppers must have had something concrete linking him to the crime / crime scene to go ahead with the arrest.

The only plausible options to me are a) His DNA inside / on victim's vehicle. b) we know he took his phone on the trip to Grant HA. It would be incredibly dumb but maybe he took one or both of their phones, left them on and they got matching pings to his own handset. c) Even though the campsite was burnt down they either still possibly recovered his DNA or the gas bottle used to ignite the fire was traced back to him.


I honestly can't really imagine any other concrete evidence that could possibly link him to the crime. And I doubt he was arrested just on the basis of him being in the area at the right time.

d) His wife rang the cops after their argument.

 

[Zidane98]

d) His wife rang the cops after their argument.

As I understand it that only caused them to bring their arrest plans forward because they feared he would self harm after his wife called them saying he left in a huff.

 

[sprockets]

As I understand it that only caused them to bring their arrest plans forward because they feared he would self harm after his wife called them saying he left in a huff.

But what else did she tell them?

 

[Zidane98]

But what else did she tell them?

Who knows but the decision to arrest him was supposedly already made before she called them.

 

[sprockets]

Who knows but the decision to arrest him was supposedly already made before she called them.

And that's my point, it's another possibility and not at all unlikely.

 

[imho]

maybe he'd intonated, or perhaps even blabbed to someone. there were plenty of calls to crimestoppers that may have given the investigation a lead or two ; what's to say he hadn't received a few mentions?


imho

 

[Terrafirma]

maybe he'd intonated, or perhaps even blabbed to someone. there were plenty of calls to crimestoppers that may have given the investigation a lead or two ; what's to say he hadn't received a few mentions?


imho

Don't think he blabbed to anyone being a loner. He's not the sort of guy to invite you over for a beer and talk about life. Who knows how the conversation went with his wife? She may have seen the Sixty Minutes Show and confronted him? Did she call the Police after their argument or were they listening to the call already? So argues with the wife, loads up some guns and heads to Arbuckle with a mountain bike on the back. Was the bike to cover the rear of the vehicle and partially his rear Number Plate.? Really interesting on how it all went down?

 

[Awakening]

But what else did she tell them?

"He keeps flying this stupid drone he bought home from his camping trip back in March 2020...."

 

[Eaglette01]

"He keeps flying this stupid drone he bought home from his camping trip back in March 2020...."

GL could have been a terrible husband - gaslighting etc etc And, perhaps (most likely) she had heard the rumours/truths about Wife No. 1.

If GL had PTSD and noise was his trigger - she would have been waking on egg shells for years & years - bringing up his 2 boys !!

Women nowadays are far more prone to pull a man up for bad behaviour and, seek professional advice.

If she was struggling in the marriage and GL had threatened her - she'd be well advised to make a phone call to the Police IMO

Brave lady

 

[FrankGrimes]

As I understand it that only caused them to bring their arrest plans forward because they feared he would self harm after his wife called them saying he left in a huff.

His wife called them? Where has this been reported? Is this just your opinion or fact?