Current Trial Wonnangatta - Murders of Russell Hill & Carol Clay *Pilot Greg Lynn Pleads Not Guilty

[Kurve]

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Disappearance of Barwon Prison Boss David Prideaux - High Country Mount Stirling
Hit and Run Death of Bryce Airs - High Country Jamieson

Israel Keyes

On the Greg Lynn committal proceedings Crown Prosecutor Mr Dickie said 'It is clear hopefully from the document, and if it's not clear from the document it's clear hopefully from the charges put before the court, that it is alleged of course that the accused acted with murderous intent when he allegedly killed the two victims.'

 

[fargo in dargo]

this drone has a 10 to 15 minute prep time. So Russel gets back to camp around 6:40pm after his radio call. Instead of finishing his camp setup, cooking a meal, spending time with Carol, he instead spends 15 minutes prepping a drone and flying it in the remaining light. OK I concede that scenario could have happened. Nice sunset and all. I will cop that. I cant see the drone being shot out of the air as per my previous comments. Russell LANDED the drone intact. So the altercation happened after??

 

[Terrafirma]

Ok, so Lynn has more light than what I think there was. Fair enough. So the drone COULD be up in light. OK But NOBODY has shot the drone down, because there WOULD be remnants found by forensics when they got there. They found a pellet with carols dna and a tiny bit of her skull afterall. I just cant see it shot out of the sky. Sooooo, Russell has safely landed the drone WHILST arguing with Lynn at the same time? Surely a shotgunned drone would have bits fly off it all over the area, and also break apart on impact with the ground? Lynn cant of collected all those bits even with light? Damm it this drone thing really frustrates me in the narrative....

Depending on the shotgun pellets distance to drone, where drone was struck etc etc drone could have still fallen down and still been intact IMO. We don't know. A damaged blade (Plastic) could still bring it down you'd never find the bit of plastic. I'm not sure drone was shot down but I'm also not sure if Lynn simply told Hill to put it away because it was rude and illegal to be flying it etc and then the altercation happens. All Hill has to do is press come home and it lands back by itself. Then off they go? Lynn could have shot in air as a warning to Hill to put the drone away. So many scenarios all we know is Lynn wanted it and made sure it was destroyed.

 

[fargo in dargo]

Not at all described as a pellet.

OH. My apoligies. I thought it was a deformed shotgun pellet with Carols DNA.

 

[Pamcake1]

OH. My apoligies. I thought it was a deformed shotgun pellet with Carols DNA.

There has been a lot of posts prior explaining that it was probably a solid slug used in the shotgun and not pellets.

 

[Kurve]

Yeah trying to understand if Hill was killed 1st why was it by knife and not by gun? Had Lynn spent the cartridges? Why is Hill using a knife in a gun fight? Doesn't make sense. As none of Hill's DNA or body parts found at campsite it does suggest no gun in his death. Coppers say Hill died 1st and Lynn says Clay died 1st. Prosecution make the most sense Lynn's version one in a million or one in a thousand Clay accidentally killed while crouching down?

It's only Lynn saying Hill was killed by knife and he's saying that because nobody would believe two people were accidentally killed by his gun.

Agree it doesn't seem to make sense that Hill went for Lynn with a knife when Lynn has possession of the gun that just killed Carol. Hill's response to Carol being killed imo, would be to bundle her up straight away and put her in the front seat, tear arse out of there to the nearest campers and send up the alarms, the weed sprayers were only 2.6kms away.

 

[Badd0g]

this drone has a 10 to 15 minute prep time. So Russel gets back to camp around 6:40pm after his radio call. Instead of finishing his camp setup, cooking a meal, spending time with Carol, he instead spends 15 minutes prepping a drone and flying it in the remaining light. OK I concede that scenario could have happened. Nice sunset and all. I will cop that. I cant see the drone being shot out of the air as per my previous comments. Russell LANDED the drone intact. So the altercation happened after??

I'm not sure why you think RH was away from camp to make his radio call. The antenna they use is a 40m odd long piece of wire that has to be hoisted up into trees, which is no simple task and was just visible in one of the original pictures of the camp that was published. It's unlikely he would have made a call from elsewhere and then come back and set it up again.

 

[Pamcake1]

this drone has a 10 to 15 minute prep time. So Russel gets back to camp around 6:40pm after his radio call. Instead of finishing his camp setup, cooking a meal, spending time with Carol, he instead spends 15 minutes prepping a drone and flying it in the remaining light. OK I concede that scenario could have happened. Nice sunset and all. I will cop that. I cant see the drone being shot out of the air as per my previous comments. Russell LANDED the drone intact. So the altercation happened after??

If there was an altercation.
It is very possible that the drone was landed, dinner was eaten etc.
Fundementally you also have to question everything in GL's statement, including that there was an altercation that night after the drone was seen to be flown.

 

[fargo in dargo]

I'm not sure why you think RH was away from camp to make his radio call. The antenna they use is a 40m odd long piece of wire that has to be hoisted up into trees, which is no simple task and was just visible in one of the original pictures of the camp that was published. It's unlikely he would have made a call from elsewhere and then come back and set it up again.

Baddog, i understand that he made the call at wonnngetta station and NOT at bucks camp? If i am incorrect about that apologies

 

[Awakening]

I’ve wondered if Lynn said in his interview that Hill was killed by a knife because Lynn didn’t know what evidence they had. Had they found evidence of a knife attack? The weapon?

If he’d been shot like Carol then they might have found a piece of his skull too and confirmed Lynn as lying about the knife.

Makes me think he probably was murdered with a knife.

Do hunters carry knives around their person? Perhaps the guns were in the car out of immediate reach when Hill and Lynn started arguing but Lynn had his knife on him?

 

[Dirh Semaj]

I think that GL has 'adjusted' the story so that it all makes 'sense'.

I don't think he would change the story from Russell actually being killed by a gun...to being stabbed with a knife.

He has thought through the events carefully so that everything fits with the narrative of what actually happened.

BTW... no mention of sleeping bags yet?

 

[Awakening]

I think that GL has 'adjusted' the story so that it all makes 'sense'.

I don't think he would change the story from Russell actually being killed by a gun...to being stabbed with a knife.

He has thought through the events carefully so that everything fits with the narrative of what actually happened.

BTW... no mention of sleeping bags yet?

Yes. If he lied and said Russell was killed by the gun when they were wrestling for it after it hit Carol, but police had evidence that Russell had been stabbed then Lynn’s story falls apart.

 

[Kurve]

I’ve wondered if Lynn said in his interview that Hill was killed by a knife because Lynn didn’t know what evidence they had. Had they found evidence of a knife attack? The weapon?

If he’d been shot like Carol then they might have found a piece of his skull too and confirmed Lynn as lying about the knife.

Makes me think he probably was murdered with a knife.

Do hunters carry knives around their person? Perhaps the guns were in the car out of immediate reach when Hill and Lynn started arguing but Lynn had his knife on him?

Hill wasn't hunting, it would be Lynn with the dangerous, sharp knives. Yes, hunters carry knives on their person and Lynn would have had one on him most times I would think. Either on a belt or hanging around his neck under his jumper or whatever. Lynn was wearing waterproof gaiters when he spoke to the weed sprayers, so I think he had all the gear.

 

[Dirh Semaj]

Yes. If he lied and said Russell was killed by the gun when they were wrestling for it after it hit Carol, but police had evidence that Russell had been stabbed then Lynn’s story falls apart.

And too hard to perpetuate the lie...

 

[MrsBlueSky]

1. Could someone please tell me how police knew Russell had been flying a drone.
2. Did police find what they believe is the murder weapon?

 

[Awakening]

Hill wasn't hunting, it would be Lynn with the dangerous, sharp knives. Yes, hunters carry knives on their person and Lynn would have had one on him most times I would think. Either on a belt or hanging around his neck under his jumper or whatever. Lynn was wearing waterproof gaiters when he spoke to the weed sprayers, so I think he had all the gear.

Yes I realise Hill was not the one hunting.

I’m thinking an argument took place away from Hills campsite between Hill and Lynn. Lynn reaches for his knife and stabs Hill. Hill dies.

Lynn realises he has to remove Carol, gets his gun and kills Carol.

In his 4 day interview Lynn wouldn’t know what evidence police had on him. So I think he told the truth about the causes of their deaths.

His defence lawyer tried to get this interview thrown out, and quite frankly I can see why.

 

[Kurve]

Yes I realise Hill was not the one hunting.

I’m thinking an argument took place away from Hills campsite between Hill and Lynn. Lynn reaches for his knife and stabs Hill. Hill dies.

Lynn realises he has to remove Carol, gets his gun and kills Carol.

In his 4 day interview Lynn wouldn’t know what evidence police had on him. So I think he told the truth about the causes of their deaths.

His defence lawyer tried to get this interview thrown out, and quite frankly I can see why.

Yep, I think Hill was killed by knife and it happened closer to or at Lynn's campsite.

The reason why I SUSPECT Lynn said he shot in to the air emptying his gun of bullets, is anticipating the cops asking him why, if Hill was chasing him with a knife, he didn't just shoot him?

Its getting confusing trying to get in to the head of what might be a very cunning, sociopathic sadist with a high IQ who has probably been one step ahead all his life, with an answer for everything.

 

[revo333]

1. Could someone please tell me how police knew Russell had been flying a drone.

Witnesses at a camp said a drone flew over them, one witness waved at the drone and the drone dipped it's wings to acknowledge the wave.

 

[Dirh Semaj]

Yep, I think Hill was killed by knife and it happened closer to or at Lynn's campsite.

The reason why I SUSPECT Lynn said he shot in to the air emptying his gun of bullets, is anticipating the cops asking him why, if Hill was chasing him with a knife, he didn't just shoot him?

Its getting confusing trying to get in to the head of what might be a very cunning, sociopathic sadist with a high IQ who has probably been one step ahead all his life, with an answer for everything.

He had a year and a half to work out in his head what happened that night.

His defence laywer has said he co-operated with the police once arrested but I'll be interested to see the police witness' accounts when they're called.
He was spoken to by police early days. Presumably he flat out lied in that conversation. ... then realised...oh .. maybe they know more than I thought they did and has worked out his story carefully to make sure it all works....

 

[Kurve]

He had a year and a half to work out in his head what happened that night.

His defence laywer has said he co-operated with the police once arrested but I'll be interested to see the police witness' accounts when they're called.
He was spoken to by police early days. Presumably he flat out lied in that conversation. ... then realised...oh .. maybe they know more than I thought they did and has worked out his story carefully to make sure it all works....

His defence lawyer will try and highlight this cooperation at every opportunity but ... how much cooperation was there when they had him for three days? What were they talking about for three days?

 

[Dirh Semaj]

His defence lawyer will try and highlight this cooperation at every opportunity but ... how much cooperation was there when they had him for three days? What were they talking about for three days?

The Police also had a year an a half to work on their tactics.... it would have been extremely professional and all by the book.... extraordinary claims requires extraordinary evidence.

Edit: the defence may have thought... how can we present this to a jury without prejudice? Tough one...

 

[Spectrix]

A twelve gauge shot gun has been mentioned, was this gun confirmed as being used (by Lynn at least)? What kind of gun?

I was under the impression that it would be single cartridges (or maybe double barrel, so two)
There were three shots. Is it suggested that Hill reloaded or does this gun have multiple cartridges loaded?

Sorry not a gunny or hunty kind of person.

Also seems like a rather large slug to use on a deer. Assuming it was slugs since its claimed that a bullet ricocheted.
12 guage would be 18.5mm. Was the point to completely annihilate the animal?

Also, I'm dubious of a 12 guage slug fired at close range ricocheting off a car mirror rather than destroying it and then passing through the door. Although I guess it's possible it could have redirected some off the large steel mirror mount.

 

[Pamcake1]

Yep, I think Hill was killed by knife and it happened closer to or at Lynn's campsite.

The reason why I SUSPECT Lynn said he shot in to the air emptying his gun of bullets, is anticipating the cops asking him why, if Hill was chasing him with a knife, he didn't just shoot him?

Its getting confusing trying to get in to the head of what might be a very cunning, sociopathic sadist with a high IQ who has probably been one step ahead all his life, with an answer for everything.

His defence lawyer will try and highlight this cooperation at every opportunity but ... how much cooperation was there when they had him for three days? What were they talking about for three days?

Having watched the video yesterday, put up recently in the Jill Meagher thread you get an insight into how the Vic Pol interview a suspect and ther tactics, including at one moment when the 'boss' of the investigation baulks at a question about interview tatics and will not reveal any further tactical knowledge. (I recommend it to peeps here)

No doubt as you say, GL has had a lifetime of being on point in the manipulation of facts to suit the presentation.
And as pointed out he had plenty of time to finesse and polish his 'story' before the epic interview, which would have had plenty of breaks for meals, sleep etc. built in, so as for Vic Pol not to be accused of exerting 'inhumane' pressure and having the interview not be permitted as evidence.

That the defense has signalled that it is going to 'let GL speak for himself' by showing excerpts from the interview I would expect a polished 'show reel' rather than a 'Ben Hur' epic documentry.
Was this 'show reel' one of the things argued over in the machinations in the early days of the trial. I suspect so. Argument's over what is cut and what is shown, editing of the story and presenting 'the co-operation of GL who, was so very unfortunate to be involved in a tragic accidental situation 'not of his own choosing'.
A piece of glossed propaganda for the defense no less, presented to the jury.
What the jury makes of; 'A cook's tour of how to get the best out of camping'.
(with a sneak peak at the plotline here ....How do you want your eggs, I'm always willing to accomodate the fussy eater, may I suggest on the menu, sure I can cook something off menu, even if I only have a camp stove, what's your fancy?)
Will the jury be salivating at the grazing menu or will they suspect salmonella from an unclean kitchen habits.
The documentry on the science of investigating a bush kitchen (forensics) might still be on their digestive minds and they might have only a mild interest in the bush buffet. Who knows whether they are gourmands or are partial to fast food.

 

[MiguelM]

Wonder what surveilance recordings police have on him? Remember they swarmed in to his camp and arrested him as they suspected he was going to end it all.

 

[SJ]

What is the Defence’s rationale for burning the tent?

 

[MrsBlueSky]

What is the Defence’s rationale for burning the tent?

I'm still failing to understand what's going on.
Who actually saw RH operating a drone and where is the knife and gun that GL said were used in the deaths.
If GL doesn't get done for murder his defence sets a very good precedent for others to follow, illogical, irrational and stupid as it may seem.
IMO the tent went up in smoke to get rid of evidence that a double murder had just taken place. GL might say a spark from the ricocheting bullet set it alight accidentally.