Wood vs Bryan?

[DoubleO7]

If Wood can average around 15 hit outs a match (very possible if given more ruck time) then I'll favor him, but as it stands the guy that performs should get the gig as the 2nd ruck in our side.

 

[scruffydog]

I don't really think Reid would present that much of an around the ground advantage either

 

[Pie eyed]

I'd go Bryan as wood does the bad things Fraser does without doing the good things Fraser does

Well assessed...lol
We need Wood to be badder at the bad things Fraser does and gooder at the good things.
We also need Bryan to be betterer...

Seriously you have it pretty right.
I would say Bryan, who I always rated as reasonable, is still a better option than Wood, generally, but Wood certainly has time on his side.
Add Keefe to the mix and by the time he is ready to play an AFL game we should have a damned good and flexible ruck.

 

[Mossi]

Watched the replay today, and was paying extra attention to the Wood/Bryan thing, since I copped a bit for suggesting Wood was better.

I even cropped out every play in which Wood and Bryan were involved, for the first half (didn't have the patience to keep doing this for the rest of the match).

[YOUTUBE]QJ1w7svmknI[/YOUTUBE]

All in all, Bryan was not as bad in this particular game as I suggested, but he still committed 3 bad turnovers in that video alone, which is ****ing costly, and typical. Rucked better than usual, but still not great. Tried hard as always.

By the same token, don't think Wood was nearly as bad as people are suggesting. Didn't do much wrong bar those 2 missed spoils.

If we want a player who will go ok around the ground, neither should be playing.
If we want a ruckman, Wood's the go.

As an aside; as bad as Wood was against Richmond, he only contested 6 out of 22 centre bounces. What the hell is the point of having a specialist ruckman but then not playing him? If our back-up ruck is only going to contest 25-30% of the bounces, we might as well just play Reid as the back-up and gain the around the ground advantage.

Mcd, Thanks for your analysis. Just the way I remember seeing the game
They both made a few errors but both did some good work as well. They are not top ruckman but I suppose some of our supporters aren't satisfied with less. Given our draughting in the past, they have been good pickups as I believe they are improving. Bryan is having his first full pre-season and should have more in the tank and be better for it, what I like about him is his hardness around the ground which people don't pick up. It really adds to our midfield + his tackling and shepherding are great. Woody has more skill than people think and still suffers from the syndrome that talls are late developers. I reckon they should be used on a horses for courses basis (player match ups) as I am sure is what is going to happen.

 

[Dave The Man]

Mcd, Thanks for your analysis. Just the way I remember seeing the game
They both made a few errors but both did some good work as well. They are not top ruckman but I suppose some of our supporters aren't satisfied with less. Given our draughting in the past, they have been good pickups as I believe they are improving. Bryan is having his first full pre-season and should have more in the tank and be better for it, what I like about him is his hardness around the ground which people don't pick up. It really adds to our midfield + his tackling and shepherding are great. Woody has more skill than people think and still suffers from the syndrome that talls are late developers. I reckon they should be used on a horses for courses basis (player match ups) as I am sure is what is going to happen.

True even look at David Hille it was only last year when he came good before that he was Up and Down like a Yo Yo and was considered a very average Ruckman.

Wood should be at least given to untill he is 27 or so to see if he can make it or not

 

[Optimax]

True even look at David Hille it was only last year when he came good before that he was Up and Down like a Yo Yo and was considered a very average Ruckman.

Wood should be at least given to untill he is 27 or so to see if he can make it or not

27 dave thats another five years

If he has shown no sign of improvement by then which is older the Guy richards when we dumped him, we are in alot of trouble

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

For 2009 its horses for courses.

Against the bigger rucks, Wood should be selected so we dont get smashed at the centre bounces. But against teams with weaker ruck divisions where winning hitouts isnt a great issue, the strength and around the ground abilities of Bryan will be of more use.

Longer term, Wood is definitely the man, unless Keefe overtakes them both.

 

[shawthing09]

27 dave thats another five years

If he has shown no sign of improvement by then which is older the Guy richards when we dumped him, we are in alot of trouble

I suspect Dave just doesn't want to have to change the number on the back of his jumper.

This is one selection problem where the problem we have is not one created by depth. I think in terms of physical pressence in ruckmen it's important to remember whilst Geelong won with Blake Ottens was the number 1 ruck and he certainly has physical pressence. Campbell at Hawthorn has it too. Keating and Lade before that. So that is a fair chunk of the last few premiership sides.

It is clearly dependant on a few things. I think the less physical pressence you have the better tapman or better at ground level you have to be. You can't just let your opponent win the tap and then not assit you mids with either physical bollocking and blocking work or by being a threat at ground level yourself.

 

[Old Spice]

The ridiculous and the sublime, very nice work FigJ.

Looking at the footage MDC posted, in the first contest Hille got the tap and Wood looked to have a nano second of intensity as he pushed Swan out of the way. But having done that, he went the curcuitous route to the ball in a half arc, and then just stopped and had a good watch as Lockyer tackled Dempsey before Dempsey bombed it forward.

I don't want to be too hard on Wood as he has a while to develop, but of the taps I saw there, Bryan provided a nice one to Didak and Wood just wide of Beams, but I didn't notice much deft tapwork in terms of hitting into the chest of Pie players. There's no Lade/Burgoyne combo happening there, to completely overstate things.

I agree with the horses for courses approach, but not sure what the course is for Wood really yet. That said I think we should get as much game time into Wood if selection choice is 50/50 as Bryan is at his peak right now and Wood obviously has some room for development. I don't think Bryan is as big an uber shank as is suggested.

 

[Dave The Man]

I suspect Dave just doesn't want to have to change the number on the back of his jumper.

This is one selection problem where the problem we have is not one created by depth. I think in terms of physical pressence in ruckmen it's important to remember whilst Geelong won with Blake Ottens was the number 1 ruck and he certainly has physical pressence. Campbell at Hawthorn has it too. Keating and Lade before that. So that is a fair chunk of the last few premiership sides.

It is clearly dependant on a few things. I think the less physical pressence you have the better tapman or better at ground level you have to be. You can't just let your opponent win the tap and then not assit you mids with either physical bollocking and blocking work or by being a threat at ground level yourself.

Don't have a Jumper, I thought Guy was 27 when De-Listed

 

[Pie eyed]

True even look at David Hille it was only last year when he came good before that he was Up and Down like a Yo Yo and was considered a very average Ruckman.

Wood should be at least given to untill he is 27 or so to see if he can make it or not

I can't agree with your call on Hille.
Hille has been a very good ruckman for several years in my opinion.
I don't know where you get the idea that last years was when he "came good". Hille has taken the Pies apart on several occasions over the years.

 

[Dave The Man]

I can't agree with your call on Hille.
Hille has been a very good ruckman for several years in my opinion.
I don't know where you get the idea that last years was when he "came good". Hille has taken the Pies apart on several occasions over the years.

That because we had Lousy Ruckman and Hille was not up against Much accpept for Fraser but Last year he found Conscidnecy

 

[smiddaz123]

Hille has always been good.

 

[Old Spice]

I think DTM is right about Hille. Only came out as a decent ruck in the last 3 years, largely for his improved work around the ground.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

I'm in the late developer camp.

Hille hasnt really become an elite player until the past few years. Prior to that he was an inconsistent performer around the ground and a barely adequate tap ruckman.

While waiting until Wood is 27 is a bit of a strech, I definitely believe he is at least 3 years away from fulfilling his potential. How old is he now - 21????

 

[Football God]

Wood is a strong mark. i think Bryan the the moment but maybe wood GF.
he (Wood) has the skill, just needs to bulk up. still has a couple more years till his at his prime.
Bryan moves well to the foward line and a pretty good kick for goal.

 

[Pie eyed]

That because we had Lousy Ruckman and Hille was not up against Much accpept for Fraser but Last year he found Conscidnecy

I am not talking simply about Hille versus Collingwood.
Hille has been a very good Ruckman for at least three years and against most other sides. Before that he was a good ruckman.

 

[Dave The Man]

Wood is a strong mark. i think Bryan the the moment but maybe wood GF.
he (Wood) has the skill, just needs to bulk up. still has a couple more years till his at his prime.
Bryan moves well to the foward line and a pretty good kick for goal.

Plus wasn't the Reason we Traded for Wood was because Ottens Flogged Bryan and Stretch in the PF in 07?

 

[shawthing09]

Plus wasn't the Reason we Traded for Wood was because Ottens Flogged Bryan and Stretch in the PF in 07?

No the reason we traded for Wood was because our ruck division was terrible and could not be ignored any longer. We are looking to win a premiership and couldn't afford the risk of trying via the draft because rucks take so long to come on and therefore we would have been waiting and pinning our hopes on an unknown.

As for Hille bad comparison IMO Hilles consistancy was an issue but he was never bad and always played very very good games here and there, far above anything Wood has produced for a game so far. Jolly would be a better hopeful comparison for Wood then Hille.

 

[Dave The Man]

No the reason we traded for Wood was because our ruck division was terrible and could not be ignored any longer. We are looking to win a premiership and couldn't afford the risk of trying via the draft because rucks take so long to come on and therefore we would have been waiting and pinning our hopes on an unknown.

As for Hille bad comparison IMO Hilles consistancy was an issue but he was never bad and always played very very good games here and there, far above anything Wood has produced for a game so far. Jolly would be a better hopeful comparison for Wood then Hille.

Why would Jolly be a better Comparison?

 

[Football God]

Plus wasn't the Reason we Traded for Wood was because Ottens Flogged Bryan and Stretch in the PF in 07?

yeah that might be right. got a good trade out of him didnt we..
86points spanking lol

 

[shawthing09]

Why would Jolly be a better Comparison?

For a few reasons. Firstly that Hille has a much bigger frame and body and as such is different in style to a Wood. Jolly from at least what I saw over the last couple of years (pretty much when he pushed Evirett out) went from an average ruck who could win a tap to a very very good ruckmen. He lifted in his work rate, physicality and intensity (again at least from what I saw) and as a result was a very very good ruckmen as opposed to an average 2nd stringer in Spiders shadow.

 

[Optimax]

Plus wasn't the Reason we Traded for Wood was because Ottens Flogged Bryan and Stretch in the PF in 07?

WHAT?!?

No dave, we were into wood since earlier that year, both hine and wood have stated this.

Dave football clubs dont make rash decisions on a week to week basis, we didnt go into trade week saying "OMG Ottens killed us last week, we must trade for ruckmans!!!!1111!!!!, doesnt matter which one we needs ruckmans!!!1"

It was over the course of the year we deceided to tarde for a ruck, if it was the prelim, we would of taken King as well and delisted bryan and richards and probably traded Fraser because he is always injured. You see why making a rash decision is stupid?

 

[Dave The Man]

WHAT?!?

No dave, we were into wood since earlier that year, both hine and wood have stated this.

Dave football clubs dont make rash decisions on a week to week basis, we didnt go into trade week saying "OMG Ottens killed us last week, we must trade for ruckmans!!!!1111!!!!, doesnt matter which one we needs ruckmans!!!1"

It was over the course of the year we deceided to tarde for a ruck, if it was the prelim, we would of taken King as well and delisted bryan and richards and probably traded Fraser because he is always injured. You see why making a rash decision is stupid?

Well that was not the Whole Reason but sure did Justify what they where going to do, Yeah I do rembember in a Early Interview Wood said his Agent came to him during the Year that we wanted him and has made a Offer to him

 

[Boris the Contradiction]

Although I don't think he deserves it, fact is both Fraser and Bryan are not strong tap rucks, Wood shows that he might be. That gives him the nod..

Maybe give him rounds 1-5 in the vfl to make him think (also cos Bryan's in great form) then go with him from there. Only if he shows more desire tho.

Like the Jolly comparison too, there's a guy who pretty much just gets tap outs but has improved him work rate to be a fantastic ruck..