Wrong Place, Wrong Time

[Damon_3388]

You could make contact with an opponent back then. They'd rub into either of them and lay them out. They'd last 2 minutes

Because they simply couldn't adapt, and players and men of the past had unimpeachable will and "hardness", right?

 

[Freoforever86]

Sounds funny, but I’d have love to have seen Fyfe and Cripps in the 80s/90s Carey/Lockett/Dunstall/Ablett era as a pure CHFs.

 

[Kwality]

Because they simply couldn't adapt, and players and men of the past had unimpeachable will and "hardness", right?

All the best players were not in one comp & working for a living by day was the norm - simply not comparable with the players of today.

 

[Superstar swan]

I actually disagree with that. I think mid-2000s footy suited Buddy perfectly - because he wasn't a great mark, but he got a lot of goals by leading out and then running back into space behind his opponent, or finding pockets of space in the fifty. To be really successful as an 80s forward you needed to be a clean mark, the one thing that Buddy isn't.

My thoughts are that his athleticism would be unstoppable. Back in the 80’s and 90’s there was so much space for forward to operate in and key forwards were isolated on their opponent more often than not.

No player could have gone with him on the lead from the square with that much space in front of him

 

[Damon_3388]

My thoughts are that his athleticism would be unstoppable. Back in the 80’s and 90’s there was so much space for forward to operate in and key forwards were isolated on their opponent more often than not.

No player could have gone with him on the lead from the square with that much space in front of him

Buddy probably would have averaged 9-10 marks per game back then on athleticism and workrate, a la Nick Riewoldt or peak Richo.

 

[iameviljez]

Buddy probably would have averaged 9-10 marks per game back then on athleticism and workrate, a la Nick Riewoldt or peak Richo.

That role of the CHF playing as a high half-forward leading out to the wings wasn't really invented till Riewoldt started it in the mid-2000s, though. In the 80s and 90s, the best CHFs were all Brereton/Van der Haar/Loewe/Stoneham/Carey/Neitz types - blokes who excelled in pack marking situations. That made sense, because kicking skills weren't as good and game plans were usually to bomb it long through the middle.

Don't get me wrong, Bud would have been a great in any era. But he's the one tall forward who I don't think would have been *better* in the 80s and 90s.

 

[iameviljez]

So, who do we think are players that were flops in their time but would be much better players in a different circumstance?

To answer your question a bit better (in terms of nominating blokes who were genuine AFL flops) - the ones that stick out to me are the blokes who can find the footy, but cannot kick. You could get away with that in the 80s - no need to be too accurate with a long bomb.

We had a few really bad kicks at Geelong in the early Bomber Thompson era - David Clarke Jr, Kane Tenace, Andrew Carrazzo, Matt McCarthy, Mark Blake... from other clubs, Rhys Palmer and Chad Fletcher also stand out. Luke Ball wasn't inaccurate but couldn't kick over the metaphorical jam tin. Obviously Ball and Fletcher went on to have decent careers, but all would have been far better in the 70s.

 

[The Final Word]

Mark Blake was top 5 in hitouts in 2009, and then 12th in 2010. Sub rule came arrived in 2011 and he was gone, aged 24. This was against a backdrop of Ottens being 30 years old (turns out he had only 1 more year in him) and Mumford had already moved to Sydney.

Inability to do much beyond get his hand on the footy in the ruck meant his position was essentially redundant as teams couldn't afford to have a plodding ruckman on their senior list. 1980's or 1990's, about 10 years after his old man was running around, he would have fit in just fine and probably played 150 to 200 games.

 

[reg_lower91]

I feel like Aaron Hamill would star in the current game as a third-tall forward

 

[iameviljez]

Mark Blake was top 5 in hitouts in 2009, and then 12th in 2010. Sub rule came arrived in 2011 and he was gone, aged 24. This was against a backdrop of Ottens being 30 years old (turns out he had only 1 more year in him) and Mumford had already moved to Sydney.

Inability to do much beyond get his hand on the footy in the ruck meant his position was essentially redundant as teams couldn't afford to have a plodding ruckman on their senior list. 1980's or 1990's, about 10 years after his old man was running around, he would have fit in just fine and probably played 150 to 200 games.

Actually, I reckon someone like John Barnes would have done really well in the modern game as a second-string ruck, provided that he could cope with the discipline of modern footy. Being as mobile as he was, he probably would have been good enough when not playing in the ruck to keep his spot.

 

[Atomboy]

Tom Lynch would have been a good “enforcer” in the 70’s or 80’s ?.

 

[Superstar swan]

Buddy probably would have averaged 9-10 marks per game back then on athleticism and workrate, a la Nick Riewoldt or peak Richo.

Budd has also already left a lot of very gettable goals on the table, particularly in the first half of his career. Kicked well over 600 behinds in his career. It’s not hard to imagine 200 of them if not more should have been kicked and he would be eyeing off the record.

In earlier era’s he would have a lot more time at training dedicated to his craft and learning the nuances of his kicks and probably would have been a lot more accurate

 

[Back One Out]

Michael Mitchell, speedy little wingman/half forward/rover from Carnavon, WA. He achieved a lot. He won the Sandover Medal while playing with Claremont in 1984. He tore the Victorians a new arse in the state games and was named All Australian in 1985/86 and he briefly lit it up for Richmond from 1987 to 1991

Maybe the only player who could compare to Cyril Rioli for the open-field chase-down tackle. Only 173cm and 66kg ringing wet... What a deadly player he was! A gun who was too small & slight for VFL footy. Too dangerous for rival teams! He was targeted and knocked out of the game. Forced into early retirement after 9 concussions.

I would've loved to see him play in today's cleaner game with no bumping, no knuckle and no racial abuse. He would've been an absolute sensation as a small forward/wingman

at Richmond
1987 - 22 games, 37 goals, avg 17.0 disposals
1988 - 22 games, 33 goals, avg 19.9 disposals, 12 Brownlow votes (=12th)
1989 - _6 games, _3 goals, avg 19.5 disposals
1990 - 22 games, 26 goals, avg 18.2 disposals, Mark of the year, Goal of the Year
1991 - _9 games, _4 goals, avg 16.1 disposals


Check out his incredible Goal of the Year at the SCG

Straight up the guts with 7 bounces, like something you might see in the under 14's from a future AFL star





1990 Mark of the Year




One of the greatest hangers of all time for Claremont in the mid 80's

 

[pablo668]

^One of my all time favourite players. Yeah it would be interesting to see how he'd go in the modern game, especially with how players are picked up from a young age and guided through the AFL system for want of a better word.

 

[Back One Out]

Peter Everitt who with todays fitness and under 18 programs would be a great a player

16 seasons, 291 games, 384 goals

3-time All Australian, dual Best and Fairest winner

He was pretty good. I suppose you're right. He had the size, skills and athleticism to be one of the greatest ever, but he squandered his talent to a degree. I thought he redeemed himself with his 4 year stint at Hawthorn. Absolutely dominated in the ruck while we were a rabble.

 

[Scotland]

I want to see our 90s stars Glen Jakovich and Peter Matera in 2020.

Jako as a a centre half back used to regularly get 20+ touches (in the 90s, when 20 touches meant something) and run off half back all while having an opponent. Who keeps AA captain CHF Wayne Carey to 2 kicks, 1 mark and no scoring shots in a final while picking up 26 touches? Outrageous. If rebound 50s were kept in 1993 he probably got 5-10 of those. Our current FB/CHB combo who are pretty good in their own right took marks for fun on the weekend but that's because our opposition had slow shitty ball movement and no decent forward targets so it was easy pickings with modern defensive zone tactics (their avenue to goal needed to be 40-45m hit up leads). Totally different to being accountable for quality opponents and still doing it.

Matera averaged 18.9 touches, 0.9 goals, 2.4 tackles a game. Nothing stats in today's footy. But 18 touches (and a lazy 5 goals) was Norm Smith material in 1992. Was a goalkicking wingman the first half of his career then moved to half back from age 27 onward. There aren't many goalkicking wingmen any more, outside players tend to be gut running accumulators and if you are explosive you are played on ball. Gaff, Hunter, Polec etc. Isaac Smith has kicked a few snags but he's not the sort of guy you expect to kick 5 or 6 in a game. He's had one 3 Brownlow vote game (24 touches 4 goals) in 210. Matera had about 30 of those. Would Matera stay on the wing and get his 15-20 touches? Play more in the middle? Play across half back and really use his speed and kicking like Brodie Smith? I can get around the idea of Matera roving to Naitanui then taking a bounce and kicking a goal from 55. But he wasn't a career centreman in his day.

Of our current players McGovern is in the wrong era. He's a 4 time AA in this one but he'd love playing on key forwards who don't leave the forward 50 unless the siren goes. He's had 6 tackles in a game, Modra used to get that in a season. He's OK one out against Hawkins or in the air against Jack Riewoldt but he's not cut out to follow a Nick Riewoldt or Franklin around the oval. Give him a meat pie and a dart at 3 quarter time and let him go about his business. Can 100% see why a guy that good sat on our rookie list a few years.

Hawkins has been mentioned as a Dunstall/Lockett 'lead out chest mark kick a goal kick a goal, lead out chest mark kick another goal' forward but the same applies for any of the high flyers. Jack Riewoldt, Liam Ryan, Jeremy Howe - these guys would excel playing in the 90s when forwards stayed deep in an open 50. Watch an inside 50 build up and you'll often see a defender blocking a star forward so he can't get a run at the ball, then another forward trying to block that defender, then another forward trying to block that defender... and you end up with half a dozen or so players all in the vicinity of the ball when the kicker really just wants to put it to the advantage of one forward.

 

[TP86]

Winston Abraham has one of the best highlight reels in footy and even though he was a very good player he’d probably be considered a hall of famer if playing today

 

[Dipper]

Tom Hawkins.


Hawkin's one-wood is out-wrestling opponents for a one-on-one mark, where he's just unbeatable because of (a) his size, and (b) his ability to pick where the ball will drop.

He was most certainly beatable in that facet of play when Brian Lake was still going around!

On moto g(7) using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[iameviljez]

He was most certainly beatable in that facet of play when Brian Lake was still going around!

On moto g(7) using BigFooty.com mobile app

If you’re talking 2013, Hawkins was a shot duck with his back issues. He is a much better player now than then.
Such a shame - he could have been a generational CHF if not for the back.