Opinion Young equal or not equal Jones?

[Mr_Plow]

Great?

Depends on your scale.

Mine is:

More suited to local footy -> VFL at best -> AFL role-player (middle 50% in position) -> good AFL player (maybe top 25% in position) -> great AFL player (maybe top 12.5% in position) -> elite AFL player (top 3-5% in position).

Assuming there are 4-5 KPDs per list = ~80-90 key defenders.

Maybe not great yet, but I think Young is in the best 20 or so key defenders in the competition.

 

[AlecDuncan]

Liam was great, but had a touch of Crazy Horse about him which saw him exposed sometimes. Young is like Weiterbot 1.1, which probably makes him more valuable to a coach.

Liam would still be damn handy though.

 

[btdg]

I take Young over Jones in a heartbeat.

Jones was flashy, but sadly unpredictable. He would charge off his man and either intercept, spoil, or leak a goal out behind. Really, really good forwards (like prime Buddy) knew how to exploit this so easily and would just work him underneath then beat him back to goal and end up with cheap goals. None of the other defenders quite knew how to read him, and its interesting that for someone whose raw stats were so 'elite', he was always a key cog in a very ordinary defence (Even paired with Weitering)

IF you are talking key defenders, the second most important ability is predictABILITY (the first is availABILITY as we have learnt this year from Jones, McGovern et al).

Young has a lot to learn, but what he has in spades is predictability. He's in the right spot at the right time, and others can build around him. Docherty and Saad can run off their man predictably. Weitering can intercept predictably. ETc. Add in that he's big and athletic enough to match anyone, and he has a ripper career ahead of him.

 

[passmark]

Jones is better.

I’m just glad Young is working out well.

 

[Juddernaut08]

How much of Jones' flaws were due to gameplan and system?

IMO Young isnt there yet but Im just glad our defence looks heaps better anyway

 

[Revenant1995]

I find some of these comparisons difficult - comparing a 31 year old 161 games former player with a 23 year old 33 games current player. How does the 23 year old Jones player compare with the 23 year old Young player...? My guess is that at a similar stage of their careers, many pundits would probably favour Young...

 

[Gointocarlton]

Jones was great for us when switched to defence, to my eye, Jones was stronger probably due to his lower centre of gravity (ie his legs are short in proportion to his height). Young is more composed and makes better decisions and is more athletic.
Overall I think Young is the better footballer just but has years to develop further.

 

[Accidental genius]

How much of Jones' flaws were due to gameplan and system?

IMO Young isnt there yet but Im just glad our defence looks heaps better anyway

None. He had his own game style and no amount of coaching was going to change him. Athletic yes but a brain fade merchant.

 

[BigFrizz36]

What Young has really done is change our list profile. At the start of the year we probably needed to draft another KPD with our first pick and give him 2 - 3 years grounding to ease him in. Provided that we are comfortable that Durdin can hold the fort if required (i.e be about the standard of Harrison Petty

35

Harrison Petty

Age

26

Ht

197cm

Wt

94kg

Pos.

D/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.5

2star

K

5.7

2star

HB

3.8

3star

M

4.3

4star

T

2.1

4star

MG

120.7

2star

No current season stats available

D

9.8

3star

K

5.8

3star

HB

4.0

3star

M

4.2

4star

T

1.4

4star

MG

127.6

3star

) we probably don't need to do that for another 4 - 5 years.

 

[morningbrown]

The gap between Young's best and worst is much smaller than Jones', but Jones has a higher ceiling. However Young is only 23 so that's a tick in his column. Overall I think we've broken even with the changes, and I'd much rather Young.

 

[KnaveyBlue]

How much of Jones' flaws were due to gameplan and system?

Game plans and system mean nothing for Jones once the moment arrives. Plays on pure instinct, and will continue to do so if he gets back in the system.

He can produce some great 1 on 1 wins and attacking clearances with his single-mindedness and attack, but he can (and often does) produce some absolutely groan-worthy goals through overcommitment.

Suitors should consider using him at CHB where his rushes of blood won't necessarily end in certain goals to the opposition.

 

[passmark]

Memory is fickle it seems.

 

[Uncle Fester]

a jones kick in the backline was always a deeply unsettling prospect - much less nervous with Lewy

 

[FlowersByIrene]

In a shock to absolutely no one, the AFL has reversed its ludicrous and unscientific vaccine mandate stance.

Would be great to have Liam lining up on Cameron or Hawkins this week.

 

[Aphrodite]

In a shock to absolutely no one, the AFL has reversed its ludicrous and unscientific vaccine mandate stance.

Would be great to have Liam lining up on Cameron or Hawkins this week.

Not going to happen Flowers.

Club has moved on.

 

[Markyd]

Jones was a beast in the air but disposal was terrifying at times especially close to goal. Young is growing with every game he plays.

 

[COBALT BLUE]

I take Young over Jones in a heartbeat.

Jones was flashy, but sadly unpredictable. He would charge off his man and either intercept, spoil, or leak a goal out behind. Really, really good forwards (like prime Buddy) knew how to exploit this so easily and would just work him underneath then beat him back to goal and end up with cheap goals. None of the other defenders quite knew how to read him, and its interesting that for someone whose raw stats were so 'elite', he was always a key cog in a very ordinary defence (Even paired with Weitering)

IF you are talking key defenders, the second most important ability is predictABILITY (the first is availABILITY as we have learnt this year from Jones, McGovern et al).

Young has a lot to learn, but what he has in spades is predictability. He's in the right spot at the right time, and others can build around him. Docherty and Saad can run off their man predictably. Weitering can intercept predictably. ETc. Add in that he's big and athletic enough to match anyone, and he has a ripper career ahead of him.

Jones could be described as an explosive athletic phenomena.....Huge leap,possibly best spoil ever,just athletic ability...
if you want to judge him regarding his professionalism in a tight unit that run tempo and literally exhale together...he might be a stand out

am am seeing some of the posts say this as well.....does he have an all round game,possibly not

BTW pls come back to Carlton.....very much needed

 

[The Flying Doormat]

Strange to compare the 2

Different types of KPDs, different stages of their careers, different gameplan, different teammates

Gotta love the what ifs. Dealing in reality, in the here and now, the current defensive set up with Young in it is working better than any we've had since the Parkin era. Jones is yesterday's story.

 

[Davey33]

As someone who has thought for a long time that there would have been no hard feelings, the fact we don’t seem interested in re-signing him makes me think you and others were right. In our situation, to not try to re-sign him is a big statement.

We have been very lucky that Young has stepped up in a big way, he’s been great with a lot of improvement in his game left, I hope Lewis can take his game to another level with the hopeful inclusion of a fit theirs tall defender.

1) isnt he still technically on our inactive list?
2) if thats the case do they actually need to resign him?
3) we wojld be crazy to let him walk, especially with all the problems we've had with personell in that half of the ground.

 

[Davey33]

Liam was great, but had a touch of Crazy Horse about him which saw him exposed sometimes. Young is like Weiterbot 1.1, which probably makes him more valuable to a coach.

Liam would still be damn handy though.

So sign him up.
As back up (which is needed all the time) if nothing else

 

[Percy2257]

I want Jones back. Full stop. Who gives a f*** that he refused vaccination. we trained him to be an effective back man and now we are gifting him to the club that didn’t want him. Very dumb.

 

[ctwenty1]

I want Jones back. Full stop. Who gives a f*** that he refused vaccination. we trained him to be an effective back man and now we are gifting him to the club that didn’t want him. Very dumb.

Can you start another thread, doesn’t belong here

 

[gab213]

Liam was a very good player for us for a few years, loved his story and really enjoyed some of the things that he did. He and Weitering worked well together too. Young is the future though and I'm happy to be moving forward with him now. If I had to choose today I'd take Young, he'll become a good player for us.

 

[Wickzki]

I want Jones back. Full stop. Who gives a f*** that he refused vaccination. we trained him to be an effective back man and now we are gifting him to the club that didn’t want him. Very dumb.

Not all gifts is spuds?

 

[Aphrodite]

Can you start another thread, doesn’t belong here