Bill Shorten - how long?

[smokingjacket]

I'm pretty sure those products won't kill you if you use them as directed. There's no safe way to smoke a cigarette.

Those who smoke can afford to give it up, regardless of socio-economic status.

I appreciate being put in the situation of defending cigarette companies haha. However there are 'safer' ways to smoke, which is why they added filters to them in the 50's. There's no safe way to drink hard liquor by your rationale either.

The second statement is grossly unfair. Speak to any psychologist/psychiatrist and they'll tell you there's a reason why many people with mental health issues smoke and it's because nicotine is actually a very good drug at relieving depression and symptoms. I've had family members relapse in to deep depression when they were pressured in to quitting smoking. Quitting is hard enough when you're feeling well. There's still a large generation of working men who smoked for their whole lives, most of them that could/would quit have already done so.

Smoking is on the way down, the social pressure alone in 10 years will probably knock it off. The best way to stop it, is to stop people ever taking it up and that's happening. People just need to be patient.

 

[kfc1]

It is interesting that the ALP are going down this line again though. They can make the argument that they're doing it because they care about their working class base but it does open themselves up to argument that they're taxing those who can least afford it, while they're arguing against a GST increase on the grounds that it taxes those who can least afford it.

It's similar to Rudd's alcopop tax which was completely ineffective at reducing underage drinking and just made it a lot more expensive for your average tradie to have a couple of JB & Coke cans after work.

 

[Theseventhhamster]

It's similar to Rudd's alcopop tax which was completely ineffective at reducing underage drinking and just made it a lot more expensive for your average tradie to have a couple of JB & Coke cans after work.

And we know how keen governments to repeal taxes. So we still have the stupid ******* thing.

 

[The Punter]

The best way to stop it, is to stop people ever taking it up and that's happening. People just need to be patient.

Making it prohibitively expensive will further that aim.

 

[smokingjacket]

Making it prohibitively expensive will further that aim.

It's already prohibitively expensive for young people. $20+ for a packet of cigarettes is above the award for an hour of work for a young person. At $30 it's nearly double.

My point is raising the tax rates further is merely punishing those already hooked, who will continue to smoke for whatever reason.

Consider the logic of the thing. The opposition is increasing the tax to raise revenue and therefore think that people will continue to smoke at the higher level.

 

[pazza]

It's already prohibitively expensive for young people. $20+ for a packet of cigarettes is above the award for an hour of work for a young person. At $30 it's nearly double.

My point is raising the tax rates further is merely punishing those already hooked, who will continue to smoke for whatever reason.

Consider the logic of the thing. The opposition is increasing the tax to raise revenue and therefore think that people will continue to smoke at the higher level.

At least it is an option for tax reform outside of just raising and broadening the GST.
Another option is the Greens using modelling to justify a carbon tax as opposed to raising the GST.

 

[The Punter]

It's already prohibitively expensive for young people. $20+ for a packet of cigarettes is above the award for an hour of work for a young person. At $30 it's nearly double.

My point is raising the tax rates further is merely punishing those already hooked, who will continue to smoke for whatever reason.

Consider the logic of the thing. The opposition is increasing the tax to raise revenue and therefore think that people will continue to smoke at the higher level.

If it was sufficiently prohibitively expensive, the amount of people taking it up would be negligible. We haven' got there yet.

The logic for the government is this - either more revenue or less smokers. Win-win.

On the other hand, one could have one standard (30ml) glass of whisky a day and be pretty much fine. Used as directed.

 

[Ripper]

5 Health Benefits of Smoking .

The bad outweighs the good still.

 

[smokingjacket]

At least it is an option for tax reform outside of just raising and broadening the GST.
Another option is the Greens using modelling to justify a carbon tax as opposed to raising the GST.

It's an option for sure but it has some pretty big drawbacks.

Crime for one. Young people are already sourcing their drugs online and it wouldn't take too much of a leap to source cigarettes too. Similarly the existing organised crime networks in Australia would practically be popping the champagne corks. Sourcing tobacco is easy and the punishments of smuggling and sale are far lower than illegal drugs. Secondly legitimacy, in that they're proving a public service when the government is punishing the average bloke on the street. Re-integrating organised crime in their communities.

Another was the political dimension that I raised in my first post on the topic.

Having a Carbon Tax that goes in to general revenue after compensation of trade exposed industry is an interesting concept.

 

[smokingjacket]

If it was sufficiently prohibitively expensive, the amount of people taking it up would be negligible. We haven' got there yet.

The logic for the government is this - either more revenue or less smokers. Win-win.

On the other hand, one could have one standard (30ml) glass of whisky a day and be pretty much fine. Used as directed.

I guess the opposition can use that logic but my original post was that, it may have some merit but they will pay a price in political capital for it.

 

[apparentlydead]

I gave up smoking 5 years ago...

I'd have another one right now in a heartbeat if it didn't mean that I'd get castrated by the missus.

Cancer and all, the cravings are still incredibly strong.

 

[Lebbo73]

I gave up smoking 5 years ago...

I'd have another one right now in a heartbeat if it didn't mean that I'd get castrated by the missus.

Cancer and all, the cravings are still incredibly strong.

I gave up 7yrs ago. It is only the last 12 months that I have been able to bloke out the cravings completely. The first 12 to 18 months was one of the most depressing times of my life.

 

[smokingjacket]

I gave up smoking 5 years ago...

I'd have another one right now in a heartbeat if it didn't mean that I'd get castrated by the missus.

Cancer and all, the cravings are still incredibly strong.

Managed to get rid of the day time smokes from a change in work but I still can't help myself when I'm drinking.

Every time I come back from South East Asia I have to start cutting down all over again!

Goes to the fact that social pressure is far more important in getting people to quit.

 

[rodney hoo]

I gave up smoking 5 years ago...

I'd have another one right now in a heartbeat if it didn't mean that I'd get castrated by the missus.

Cancer and all, the cravings are still incredibly strong.

I gave up 38 years ago haven't touched one since but even now I occasionally get the feeling to start again exspecially when drinking beer. It's great that it's band in clubs and pubs.
I certainly felt better though after stopping,IMO they should be $100 packet.

 

[apparentlydead]

I gave up 38 years ago haven't touched one since but even now I occasionally get the feeling to start again exspecially when drinking beer. It's great that it's band in clubs and pubs.
I certainly felt better though after stopping,IMO they should be $100 packet.

Not sure of your age, but I had a 30 year/40 a day rollie habit going on.

If someone is smoking tailor mades, I'm ok...but someone having a rollie and I have to run away.

Prick of a habit.

 

[Lebbo73]

Managed to get rid of the day time smokes from a change in work but I still can't help myself when I'm drinking.

Every time I come back from South East Asia I have to start cutting down all over again!

Goes to the fact that social pressure is far more important in getting people to quit.

Price played no part in my decision to quit. I did it because I couldn't stop coughing and bringing up phlegm. Plus, my children were 3 yrs of age and I didn't want them remembering me smoking!

 

[rodney hoo]

Not sure of your age, but I had a 30 year/40 a day rollie habit going on.

If someone is smoking tailor mades, I'm ok...but someone having a rollie and I have to run away.

Prick of a habit.

Getting to mid sixties, rollies in the old days weren't to bad because they had tobacco in them, today I think they got all those chemicals like smokes.
It is a prick of a habit but once in your life listen to your missus, stay strong it gets easier the longer you stop.

 

[smokingjacket]

Not sure of your age, but I had a 30 year/40 a day rollie habit going on.

If someone is smoking tailor mades, I'm ok...but someone having a rollie and I have to run away.

Prick of a habit.

I know exactly what you mean.

One the addiction is as much about doing something with your hands, taking a break etc.

Two the smell is a heap stronger. When I'm hanging for a smoke I swear I can smell the hipsters lighting up at the bars a click away from me haha.

 

[pazza]

It's an option for sure but it has some pretty big drawbacks.

Crime for one. Young people are already sourcing their drugs online and it wouldn't take too much of a leap to source cigarettes too. Similarly the existing organised crime networks in Australia would practically be popping the champagne corks. Sourcing tobacco is easy and the punishments of smuggling and sale are far lower than illegal drugs. Secondly legitimacy, in that they're proving a public service when the government is punishing the average bloke on the street. Re-integrating organised crime in their communities.

Another was the political dimension that I raised in my first post on the topic.

Having a Carbon Tax that goes in to general revenue after compensation of trade exposed industry is an interesting concept.

That's the thing. Every form of tax reform needs to be on the table..not just seemingly one thing.

 

[Gough]

I was disappointed when the war veterans took over all our farms in Zim, I lost the excuse of smoking to support my kin. In related news, 50 years since UDI today.

 

[WA ROO]

Not sure of your age, but I had a 30 year/40 a day rollie habit going on.

If someone is smoking tailor mades, I'm ok...but someone having a rollie and I have to run away.

Prick of a habit.

Just replace tobacco with "something else'

 

[apparentlydead]

Just replace tobacco with "something else'

Yeah, but just how many times a day can you plow the neighbours wife?

 

[WA ROO]

Yeah, but just how many times a day can you plow the neighbours wife?

Seen my neighbours wife?
Brave man Bush
Thinking something more 'erbal mon

 

[Ripper]

It's easy! I give up regularly.

 

[apparentlydead]

Seen my neighbours wife?
Brave man Bush
Thinking something more 'erbal mon

Yeah mon, I have a vaporiser.

A bit dodgy sourcing it over here though.