2014-15 EPL, Matchday 11

[Cruyff14]

Yes, we have no mongrels in our side. We also do not have a winners mentality (Alexis aside), the side is full of mental short people with no real desire or fight to drive them on when the chips are down.

 

[Bojan KantKick]

Dortmund are two wins away from 7th. I don't think they are panicking just yet. They are probably the best case scenario of fan ownership of a club. They have patience and don't sack coaches if they believe in them. It's unfortunate that the best players tend to move to Bayern for guaranteed titles. We are lucky in England that this is not always the case. Take 2 of the 3 best players out of any top team this year and they'd struggle immensly versus their competition. e.g. Silva & Aguero, DDG & Rooney, Sanchez and Kos. The best example of this is probably Liverpool with Suarez & Sturridge. Arsenal have had this problem with RVP, Cesc and all those who went to City also.

 

[Magma]

well another problem is that the english clubs can't stockpile the elite talent of each country

the best german youngsters one way want to play for bayern, best spanish ones for barca, madrid, etc etc. england produce so few good youngsters, and where do the majority of them want to play? spain. and even fewer end up ever playing in spain due to not being good enough.

bayern, madrid and barca usually have first dibs at any quality player. then it's england's clubs. of course there are exceptions to this but it's par for the course. england's academies, especially chelsea and ours right now, are the best in the country, trading youth titles between themselves, but still have a long way to go until reaching castilla or la masia.

 

[Bojan KantKick]

well another problem is that the english clubs can't stockpile the elite talent of each country

the best german youngsters one way want to play for bayern, best spanish ones for barca, madrid, etc etc. england produce so few good youngsters, and where do the majority of them want to play? spain. and even fewer end up ever playing in spain due to not being good enough.

bayern, madrid and barca usually have first dibs at any quality player. then it's england's clubs. of course there are exceptions to this but it's par for the course. england's academies, especially chelsea and ours right now, are the best in the country, trading youth titles between themselves, but still have a long way to go until reaching castilla or la masia.

If u don't play them in the first team, they won't get there. If Mceachran, Piazon and Baker don't make it, that's the clubs fault, nobody else's and certainly not other clubs. How many first teamers are genuine academy players for chelsea or city? Terry for chelsea. It's not that they want to play in Spain.

 

[Cooldude]

Probably coz there's not much British talent to stockpile in the first place, if you do you probably wouldn't be very good

German clubs have so many great native players and a lot of them wanna stay in their country

 

[chef]

If u don't play them in the first team, they won't get there. If Mceachran, Piazon and Baker don't make it, that's the clubs fault, nobody else's and certainly not other clubs. How many first teamers are genuine academy players for chelsea or city? Terry for chelsea. It's not that they want to play in Spain.

Or they are simply just not good enough to play at a club like Chelsea's level.

But our Academy was overhauled a few years ago and we might see a few come through now.

 

[Loonerty]

If u don't play them in the first team, they won't get there. If Mceachran, Piazon and Baker don't make it, that's the clubs fault, nobody else's and certainly not other clubs. How many first teamers are genuine academy players for chelsea or city? Terry for chelsea. It's not that they want to play in Spain.

McEachran will never play for Chelsea. Not good enough. Piazon may struggle to break into the 11 as it is currently but who knows in future.

Baker is the one. He, Bamford, Solanke, Brown, Boga are the shining stars of the Chelsea youth system currently.

Plus Ake.

 

[chef]

McEachran will never play for Chelsea. Not good enough. Piazon may struggle to break into the 11 as it is currently but who knows in future.

Baker is the one. He, Bamford, Solanke, Brown, Boga are the shining stars of the Chelsea youth system currently.

Plus Ake.

Don't forget Christensen.

 

[Loonerty]

Don't forget Christensen.

Good call. And Kalas too.

 

[Bojan KantKick]

Or they are simply just not good enough to play at a club like Chelsea's level.

But our Academy was overhauled a few years ago and we might see a few come through now.

Have they played? United and Southampton haven't been afraid to put kids in and it's paid. Winning the youth comps clearly doesn't translate to success going forward.

 

[Bojan KantKick]

McEachran will never play for Chelsea. Not good enough. Piazon may struggle to break into the 11 as it is currently but who knows in future.

Baker is the one. He, Bamford, Solanke, Brown, Boga are the shining stars of the Chelsea youth system currently.

Plus Ake.

Should have played Mceachran ages ago. Was the best of his age group. Piazon was one of the best globally in his age group. If this group coming through fails, then its the clubs fault.

 

[Loonerty]

Ridiculous. Because the club wouldn't compromise its performance by playing kids who weren't improvements on more senior players, their inability to improve is on the club?

 

[Masked Magician]

Is Masked Magician around?

I was around alright! up the Clarets!!!

 

[SM]

I was around alright! up the Clarets!!!

Nice delayed response you flog.

 

[Magma]

If u don't play them in the first team, they won't get there. If Mceachran, Piazon and Baker don't make it, that's the clubs fault, nobody else's and certainly not other clubs. How many first teamers are genuine academy players for chelsea or city? Terry for chelsea. It's not that they want to play in Spain.

well, if players aren't good enough, they're not good enough.

but we should have plenty in a few years. we've only just added the finishing touches to our academy. i hardly expect any of the u/16 champions to be playing first team yet.

in the next 5-6 years there are some quality english kids who will come through. people don't criticise real madrid for not having a heap of their castilla graduates play in the first team, it's because they have high standards and are ruthless. they don't exactly miss the likes of mata or negredo. clubs can't just accept sub standard players if they want to be successful. would you have the likes of guidetti or micah playing right now just because they're academy graduates? no, that would be stupid.

fofana, facey, bossaerts, barker, lopes, pozo, angelino, ambrose, ntcham, rekik are just a few names who will hopefully challenge for first team places in the coming seasons. and that's just those in the u/21 team.

 

[Tulip]

Dortmund are two wins away from 7th. I don't think they are panicking just yet. They are probably the best case scenario of fan ownership of a club. They have patience and don't sack coaches if they believe in them. It's unfortunate that the best players tend to move to Bayern for guaranteed titles. We are lucky in England that this is not always the case. Take 2 of the 3 best players out of any top team this year and they'd struggle immensly versus their competition. e.g. Silva & Aguero, DDG & Rooney, Sanchez and Kos. The best example of this is probably Liverpool with Suarez & Sturridge. Arsenal have had this problem with RVP, Cesc and all those who went to City also.

Whereas, with those guys in, they're going beautifully

 

[Bojan KantKick]

Whereas, with those guys in, they're going beautifully

Except silva is injured, Rooney missed 3 games and Kos has been out most of the season smartarse

 

[Tulip]

Except silva is injured, Rooney missed 3 games and Kos has been out most of the season smartarse

We've finally found the answer to United's woes

 

[Bojan KantKick]

We've finally found the answer to United's woes

Nope but it didn't help

 

[Greendogg5]

well, if players aren't good enough, they're not good enough.

but we should have plenty in a few years. we've only just added the finishing touches to our academy. i hardly expect any of the u/16 champions to be playing first team yet.

in the next 5-6 years there are some quality english kids who will come through. people don't criticise real madrid for not having a heap of their castilla graduates play in the first team, it's because they have high standards and are ruthless. they don't exactly miss the likes of mata or negredo. clubs can't just accept sub standard players if they want to be successful. would you have the likes of guidetti or micah playing right now just because they're academy graduates? no, that would be stupid.

fofana, facey, bossaerts, barker, lopes, pozo, angelino, ambrose, ntcham, rekik are just a few names who will hopefully challenge for first team places in the coming seasons. and that's just those in the u/21 team.

But it's hard to see some of the bigger premier league sides giving these guys games to develop as they prefer to just spend money on foreign players for instant success. Look at Dortmund and Erik Durm, started out looking rusty a little bit shaky but Klopp persisted and gave him a chance and is now preferred LB over Schmelzer (i know he isnt a bvb youth player but it's a similar scenario). You could use same for Pizszcek, Gundogan (who was very ordinary first season), Bender etcyoung players can surprise you and some develop really quickly given the right environment.

 

[Magma]

But it's hard to see some of the bigger premier league sides giving these guys games to develop as they prefer to just spend money on foreign players for instant success. Look at Dortmund and Erik Durm, started out looking rusty a little bit shaky but Klopp persisted and gave him a chance and is now preferred LB over Schmelzer (i know he isnt a bvb youth player but it's a similar scenario). You could use same for Pizszcek, Gundogan (who was very ordinary first season), Bender etcyoung players can surprise you and some develop really quickly given the right environment.

yes and no

for us, we had to spend the money to be competitive. that's just how it is in the premier league. you can get away with it in spain and germany, but after a couple of seasons, the big teams will come, just like we've seen with dortmund, and to a lesser extent atletico. now that we have the base to at least be competitive in the premier league, i will expect us to try and implement more youngsters in the coming years. well i hope to at least. i can't see us spending 100+ mil or whatever it was on new youth facilities and then not use them.

 

[Bojan KantKick]

I hope that City's youngsters are given the opportunity to prove they are good enough. You never really know until they play. In Spain Madrid have been criticized but as you mentioned the players that Madrid have produced that haven't made it their have had illustrious careers. Teams can't wait until players are necessarily 'good' enough to play them or most wouldn't play until their mid 20's or would leave. Although not an Academy player, Boateng is a good example at City. People forget that Fergie sold a bunch of stars to give the class of 92 an opportunity and they certainly wouldn't be perceived as good enough given the comments of most around here. To be fair to City, it's only in the last 4 or 5 years they have really ramped up the investment in youth. It's good for English football.

 

[Bojan KantKick]

Ridiculous. Because the club wouldn't compromise its performance by playing kids who weren't improvements on more senior players, their inability to improve is on the club?

Keep Daniel Sturridge and Torres is no longer an issue and u probably don't buy Costa. Playing youngsters requires patience and persistence, never Romans strong points

 

[Bojan KantKick]

Or they are simply just not good enough to play at a club like Chelsea's level.

But our Academy was overhauled a few years ago and we might see a few come through now.

I should clarify my earlier comment. If the kids aren't given an opportunity to make it, that's the clubs fault. I saw that with Pogba, Rossi and Shawcross at my club. Beckham and G Neville were pretty s**t when they started and clearly developed but it took them 2 to 3 years before I'd say they were the equal of the players they replaced.

 

[Loonerty]

Hindsight is 20/20. Sturridge was nowhere near what he is now when he played for Chelsea.