List Mgmt. 2014 Draft Discussion

[Skippos]

thank Skippos

Marchbank




how do you think his knee surgery will affect where he is taken in the draft? Skippos

and Laverde



I think I need to see more of Goddard before I am convinced, very good at shutting down his opponent though

any of the 3 would be fine selections imo, not sure we'd take Pickett unless he has a ripper final run
doesn't win enough of his own ball and its something we pride all our players been good at

I haven't heard much about his knee - what kind of injury it is, how he did it or the severity/recovery of it. Just that it happened. A lot of my response would depend on that but in general I don't think it'd hurt him much unless it's an ACL that'll eat into his pre-season/first season or something chronic/might develop into something chronic.

 

[Dav1d]

I haven't heard much about his knee - what kind of injury it is, how he did it or the severity/recovery of it. Just that it happened. A lot of my response would depend on that but in general I don't think it'd hurt him much unless it's an ACL that'll eat into his pre-season/first season or something chronic/might develop into something chronic.

that would be horrible, I see you had him at 20
was this because of the knee or something else? I have heard the Bulldogs have already at least once interviewed Jake Lever
think he has a lot of qualities to that the Dogs recruiters rate highly

 

[Skippos]

that would be horrible, I see you had him at 20
was this because of the knee or something else? I have heard the Bulldogs have already at least once interviewed Jake Lever
think he has a lot of qualities to that the Dogs recruiters rate highly

Yeah I had him at 20. Wasn't factoring in the knee either. I think he's an excellent junior but I'm just not sure how he's going to translate to AFL level. It's becoming more and more clear that key defence in todays game is one of the positions where 'athletes' can excel and as such we're finding more and more experimental players sent to key defence off the back of pure athleticism not ability. Rory Thompson, Sam Rowe, Mark Blicavs, Jordan Roughead - all tall forwards/rucks converted into key backs because they lacked the real 'brains' to excel in positions that required them to create. I'm confident there'll be more too, these kinds of players are a big part of the future of key position development.

If we're able to unearth AFL standard key backs via alternative measures then there's less of a requirement in my eyes to target them early in the draft as they can be found later. As such I'm only going to look favourably on a key back if there's something that really sets them apart from the rest or they've got real versatility. Marchbank can swing forward but isn't really a game changer there. In defence he's not the most athletic type and I can see him being burnt by the #2 forwards he'd be taking on leads and if he took a bigger bloke he'd be outmuscled. For a creative minded defender his disposal by foot is average at best and it's just his intercept game that excels and that's a game I'm not sure will excel at AFL level with the need to close-check an opponent far more real and demanding. There's just too many ifs and buts with him to rate him in that top echelon.

I much prefer Lever. With the news that he potentially has measured in at 194cm/89kg I'd almost have him a lock for top 10. Better in nearly every facet to Marchbank, just a little bit of risk with the ACL.

 

[doggies ftw]

=
I much prefer Lever. With the news that he potentially has measured in at 194cm/89kg I'd almost have him a lock for top 10. Better in nearly every facet to Marchbank, just a little bit of risk with the ACL.

Geez that certainly does make things interesting.

 

[AjsGuns]

I'm really liking Laverde, him on one wing Macrae on the other would make me quite moist

Has he stamped himself as a top 10 pick yet or still in that 10-15 range, I just want two high draft picks this draft!

I'd say his stamped himself as a 6-10 pick for sure, earliest i could see him going right now would be #5 and I can't see Richmond letting him go past #7 or #8.

 

[TheHoneyBadger]

Very keen on Laverde, think he's a natural fit for us. Obviously depends on who slides and who bolts but if it was draft day today and he was available at our pick, I'd select him, for sure.

 

[VitalDread]

If we draft Marchbank
I can see
"Marchbank is open for business"
"The bank you can trust is Marchbank"

 

[Dale4captain]

Clubs would be absolutely fuming if we picked up Laverde with our first pick. Clearly one with a very high ceiling in this draft, probably the highest. So similar to Macrae its insane. We'd have easily the best midfield in the comp and thats why I'm all for going for him. If we lose Higgins, that may even work in our favour. If we could get a band 1 or 2 for him, we could then pick up a KPP like Goddard or Marchbank and we'd have another brilliant draft.

 

[Aldo]

Someone put up a stat recently that's showed that dominant juniors that get more than 2/3 of their possession uncontested struggle at senior level - Cale Morton destroy the u18s in his draft year. Toumpas was in the same ratio category.

Our points system seems to be working?

I remember it being mentioned by Champion Data last year when justifying why they had Aish ranked lower than most expected.

 

[doggies ftw]

Clubs would be absolutely fuming if we picked up Laverde with our first pick. Clearly one with a very high ceiling in this draft, probably the highest. So similar to Macrae its insane. We'd have easily the best midfield in the comp and thats why I'm all for going for him. If we lose Higgins, that may even work in our favour. If we could get a band 1 or 2 for him, we could then pick up a KPP like Goddard or Marchbank and we'd have another brilliant draft.

Would be so frustrating playing our midfield and just being absolutely helpless as Laverde, Macrae, Bonts and Hunter dance around you, and Wally, Libba, Smith, Stringer, Stevens give you some severe bruising.

Agree though it sounds like there will be quite a few good KPP options at our 2nd pick and around the pick we would get for Higgo.

 

[Dav1d]

Would be so frustrating playing our midfield and just being absolutely helpless as Laverde, Macrae, Bonts and Hunter dance around you, and Wally, Libba, Smith, Stringer, Stevens give you some severe bruising.

Agree though it sounds like there will be quite a few good KPP options at our 2nd pick and around the pick we would get for Higgo.

would be my face if we got a band 2 or better for Higgins

I know its greedy to want a KPP to slide to that pick, but would be brilliant
good thing is if we get band 3, that we still have a pretty early second round pick (unfortunately)

could mean a Keitel/Marchbank were there and all this talk is just BF hype, you know?

wouldn't be the first time, eh

 

[AjsGuns]

I much prefer Lever. With the news that he potentially has measured in at 194cm/89kg I'd almost have him a lock for top 10. Better in nearly every facet to Marchbank, just a little bit of risk with the ACL.

I really, really like Lever as well, ticks all the boxes and supposedly is a great leader with good character so I think the dogs would be highly interested in him just not sure how having a year off is going to effect where he goes in the draft.

Clubs would be absolutely fuming if we picked up Laverde with our first pick. Clearly one with a very high ceiling in this draft, probably the highest. So similar to Macrae its insane. We'd have easily the best midfield in the comp and thats why I'm all for going for him. If we lose Higgins, that may even work in our favour. If we could get a band 1 or 2 for him, we could then pick up a KPP like Goddard or Marchbank and we'd have another brilliant draft.

C: Laverde - Liberatore - Macrae
R: Campbell - Bontempelli - Wallis (tagger)

Laverde and Macrae running on the wings, Wallis tagging the oppositions best and Libba extracting the ball to Bonti :O.

With Dahlhaus, Stringer, Hunter and Hrovrat rotating through as well as Smith on the bench.
Not bad hey?

If we do draft Laverde though, I'd hope we take a Keitel/Mckenzie or a KPD (whichever we rate more highly who's there at our pick) with our 2nd rounder and if we get pick 22 for Higgins compensation we just go best available as one of Ellis, De goey, Duggan or Lamb (probably won't take him due to his attitude even if he was there) might still be there. Don't think either Lever or Marchbank will slide past 15 but weirder things have happened i guess, obviously if either is there at 22 snap them up, if Laverde is gone at our first i wouldn't be opposed to using it on either of those guys (prefer Lever).

If we ended up adding:
Laverde, Ellis, Mckenzie and Cordy through the draft I'd be pretty stoked.

Could also trade the Higgins compensation for Jaksch, so many options haha. All i know is this draft is vital and we need to nail it, had a great 2010, 2012 and 2013 another great draft and we are laughing (hopefully all the way to a premiership).

 

[Dav1d]

To get something, you need to give something and gun key forwards don't come cheaply. Prying one out of a club is hard enough without stumping up the currency to 'pay' for them. The Dogs would be unwilling to trade one of their young stars, or skipper Ryan Griffen (as club great Luke Darcy suggested) in a package deal with their first pick. They are unlikely to have a second round pick as collateral, as they'll need that to secure highly-rated father-son prospect and key defender Zaine Cordy, so they'll be praying they find a key forward in the draft.

from http://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-07-23/three-big-questions

if Zaine was nominated at our second round pick, which will be pretty early second round
I hope we'd pass in the pursuit of a KPF...

I think some are over-estimating the worth of the picks as well, can't just package a bunch of picks together and expect a KPF
not gonna happen in this draft anyway..maybe a 'super draft'

 

[footyfan000001]

Just to remind everyone that we're in good hands on draft day. Quick snapshot of how the top 5 guys from the 2012 draft behind Boyd went on the weekend:

2. O'rourke - 9 possessions from a full game in the midfield.

3. Plowman - 7 possessions before being subbed at 3 quarter time.

4. Toumpas - laid up with appendicitis, pondering where it's all gone wrong.

5. Stringer - 5 goals against a top 6 team.

6. Macrae - followed up his 42 touches and 2 goals with a lazy 32 touches and a goal.

I'm happy to grab as many picks as we can and head back to the draft.

Hopefully O'Rourke keeps stinking it up so we can get him cheaply. After all, he does want to be a Dog

 

[Doggies7]

You would think GWS wouldn't be eyeing another KPF with their first pick, I wonder what the cost would be to trade from say pick 6 to pick 2 and guarantee one of Wright or McCartin? Some people are a little down on Wright as a KPF but I think once he develops, could easily be a very good KPF / 2nd Ruck and a perfect fit for us. Great size and mobility and wouldn't just be a ruckman pretending to be a forward, he has forward instincts. Having Campbell as #1 ruck with Wright at FF and swapping for spells during the match is drool worthy. Jones gets the 2nd or 3rd key back and could really become a good fwd with less attention.

Stringer / Crameri / Dahl
Hunter / Wright / Jones

With Grant, Redpath, Dickson etc depth.

 

[footyfan000001]

You would think GWS wouldn't be eyeing another KPF with their first pick, I wonder what the cost would be to trade from say pick 6 to pick 2 and guarantee one of Wright or McCartin? Some people are a little down on Wright as a KPF but I think once he develops, could easily be a very good KPF / 2nd Ruck and a perfect fit for us. Great size and mobility and wouldn't just be a ruckman pretending to be a forward, he has forward instincts. Having Campbell as #1 ruck with Wright at FF and swapping for spells during the match is drool worthy. Jones gets the 2nd or 3rd key back and could really become a good fwd with less attention.

Stringer / Crameri / Dahl
Hunter / Wright / Jones

With Grant, Redpath, Dickson etc depth.

The question everyone is thinking but nobody has the answer.

 

[Dogsman16]

You would think GWS wouldn't be eyeing another KPF with their first pick, I wonder what the cost would be to trade from say pick 6 to pick 2 and guarantee one of Wright or McCartin? Some people are a little down on Wright as a KPF but I think once he develops, could easily be a very good KPF / 2nd Ruck and a perfect fit for us. Great size and mobility and wouldn't just be a ruckman pretending to be a forward, he has forward instincts. Having Campbell as #1 ruck with Wright at FF and swapping for spells during the match is drool worthy. Jones gets the 2nd or 3rd key back and could really become a good fwd with less attention.

Stringer / Crameri / Dahl
Hunter / Wright / Jones

With Grant, Redpath, Dickson etc depth.

All fantastic in theory but how do we get an upgrade to St kilda's pick is the real question, Brisbane won't want to trade down this draft it has to be St Kilda.

 

[Doggies7]

Yeah I don't think either Brisbane or Saints will be trading their picks as they have obvious holes they need to fill with the best talent possible. GWS are the obvious ones because of their consistently high picks over the last few years and lack of need for a KPF. The issue is we need them to finish 2nd last or last, which I think is still pretty possible. I could see them liking a Durdin, Pickett or Petracca over McCartin so a trade down could benefit both. I'm really struggling to think of a trading option though. Would our 2nd round pick or Higgins compensation pick plus 6 be enough for pick 2?

 

[Doggies7]

I don't want to lose him, but maybe Grant + 6 for GWS pick. I could see the Giants having some interest in him with his X factor and giving their Fwd line something different that they don't have. They still get an A grade young player with pick 6 and we get our Key Forward. Have to give something to get something, would depend on GWS' interest in Grant I guess, but would be a nice mature aged player for them to add IMO. If we needed to add more, could swap our 2nd pick for their 3rd too but I wouldn't be keen to add too much more.

 

[TheHoneyBadger]

Interesting reading this on the following article on the AFL website:
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-07-23/three-big-questions

WESTERN BULLDOGS
Where do the Dogs find a key forward? To get something, you need to give something and gun key forwards don't come cheaply. Prying one out of a club is hard enough without stumping up the currency to 'pay' for them. The Dogs would be unwilling to trade one of their young stars, or skipper Ryan Griffen (as club great Luke Darcy suggested) in a package deal with their first pick. They are unlikely to have a second round pick as collateral, as they'll need that to secure highly-rated father-son prospect and key defender Zaine Cordy, so they'll be praying they find a key forward in the draft.
Do the Dogs need Shaun Higgins? The 26-year-old has endured an injury-ravaged nine seasons at Whitten Oval, but the 124 games he has managed in red, white and blue have been riddled with inconsistency. Brendan McCartney tried to reinvent the 2005 first round pick as a running defender but with limited effect, and Higgins now finds himself in the VFL. A free agent at season's end, the compensation the Bulldogs would receive for his departure could be packaged with draft picks to trade for that much-needed key forward.
Should they stay or should they go? Rookies Mark Austin, Alex Greenwood, Lin Jong and Jack Redpath have all been with the club for three seasons, so the Dogs will need to either upgrade them or delist them. Jong and Redpath appear to have the most upside and a chance of being moved to the senior list. Redpath may be a beneficiary of Tom Williams' early retirement and the club's lack of key forwards. Austin has been used sparingly in his time at Whitten Oval, while inside midfielder Greenwood is yet to play a senior game.

Some of the suggestions here are similar to BigFooty's own.

I'd be surprised if we had to spend a second rounder on Cordy, as much as I rate him. Can't really see us trading the first pick either.

 

[Dogsman16]

I don't want to lose him, but maybe Grant + 6 for GWS pick. I could see the Giants having some interest in him with his X factor and giving their Fwd line something different that they don't have. They still get an A grade young player with pick 6 and we get our Key Forward. Have to give something to get something, would depend on GWS' interest in Grant I guess, but would be a nice mature aged player for them to add IMO. If we needed to add more, could swap our 2nd pick for their 3rd too but I wouldn't be keen to add too much more.

Have to throw that compo pick that we potentially get from Higgins as well, heres hoping Frawley stays at Melbourne so we don't slide down further

at the very least
Pick 5 + Pick 21 + Grant

The only possible way GWS accept that is if they think they could on trade that compo pick to St Kilda for an established player, as we know St kilda want more top 30 picks. That trade would only be about a 5% chance of occuring.

In essence it would be something like

Pickett, Grant and Geary for Patton.

 

[paulveed]

I don't want to lose him, but maybe Grant + 6 for GWS pick. I could see the Giants having some interest in him with his X factor and giving their Fwd line something different that they don't have. They still get an A grade young player with pick 6 and we get our Key Forward. Have to give something to get something, would depend on GWS' interest in Grant I guess, but would be a nice mature aged player for them to add IMO. If we needed to add more, could swap our 2nd pick for their 3rd too but I wouldn't be keen to add too much more.

Beat me by one post D7. Our first pick, plus Grant. Makes sense to me, far more so than all this drivel about Griff, Will, or one of young mids. For GWS Grant would add an entire new dimension to their F50, and I don't see it unduly damaging the function of our front half, especially given we get a KPF at last.
I don't see however that there would be any need to add our other pick though. If that was a requirement then I suspect we would walk away from the table.

 

[Igloo]

Remember that this is the draft thread, rather than the trade thread.

 

[footyfan000001]

I think people on here are forgetting that GWS need to cut their list. They won't be accepting two picks AND a player for Pick 1/2. If they are going to trade that pick away it will be for an A-Grade midfielder. We won't be getting pick 1 or 2.

 

[Doggies7]

I think people on here are forgetting that GWS need to cut their list. They won't be accepting two picks AND a player for Pick 1/2. If they are going to trade that pick away it will be for an A-Grade midfielder. We won't be getting pick 1 or 2.

The suggestion is Pick 6, Grant and 2nd Round pick for their pick #2 and 3rd rounder. They are only adding one extra player and a quality one at that and can use our 2nd round pick to upgrade draft spots if they need to. I think they would be happy to add a talent like Grant and cut a little bit deeper into their list. Gilham, Addison, underperforming 3rd year guys etc etc

EDIT, but anyway i'll continue talking about this is the trade thread.