List Mgmt. 2024 List Management discussion

[Kickback Flip]

Personally, I wouldn't be renewing Berry's contract. As I have said on numerous occasions his disposal is dreadful and he can't read the play, which is one of the main fundamentals for a wingman. He is not a smart footballer and the only position he can play is a defensive tagger where he can be led to the ball.
With Ashcroft back playing midfield next year, I like the idea of playing McCluggage, Wilmot and Fletcher on the wings and Coleman, McKenna and Answerth playing HB.
This would make Berry dispensable and leave a bit of money in the salary cap to entice a ruckman to the club.

 

[briztoon]

JFK. what happened on this site. Why are the goody-two-shoe posters looking more and more unstable?

Names please.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

We should get rid of berry!

For who?

That’s for the list management team to decide.

Classic bigfooty. We are either discussing list management or we’re not discussing it. You can’t bring up a hypothetical and then not discuss the consequence of that hypothetical and expect the conversation to be meaningful.

Bugger off. I'm allowed to not rate a player and not think he's worth the money he might be offered elsewhere while not being the greatest at talent identification from other clubs. See, I watch the Lions much more than I watch other clubs, so I have a better idea of who's performing here and who isn't, compared to who's got potential at other clubs. I can bring up whatever I please.

 

[briztoon]

Personally, I wouldn't be renewing Berry's contract. As I have said on numerous occasions his disposal is dreadful and he can't read the play, which is one of the main fundamentals for a wingman. He is not a smart footballer and the only position he can play is a defensive tagger where he can be led to the ball.
With Ashcroft back playing midfield next year, I like the idea of playing McCluggage, Wilmot and Fletcher on the wings and Coleman, McKenna and Answerth playing HB.
This would make Berry dispensable and leave a bit of money in the salary cap to entice a ruckman to the club.

I would like McCluggage on a wing as well.

However the coaches want to use him inside, and we no longer use our wingers in the traditional sense, or play through a winger any more.

 

[BRAB]

Bugger off. I'm allowed to not rate a player and not think he's worth the money he might be offered elsewhere while not being the greatest at talent identification from other clubs. See, I watch the Lions much more than I watch other clubs, so I have a better idea of who's performing here and who isn't, compared to who's got potential at other clubs. I can bring up whatever I please.

You can bring up whatever you please, but I’m equally entitled to tell you it’s a s**t way to have a conversation if you don’t take the next step and suggest an alternative.

It might be that the people saying we should keep berry also aren’t happy with his output but recognise we not not might be able to get much more on the open market at a cost that would be worth it. The decision to get rid of berry and the evaluation of our ability to replace him are intrinsically linked and the reason people might be disagreeing with you probably has something to do with that.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

You can bring up whatever you please, but I’m equally entitled to tell you it’s a s**t way to have a conversation if you don’t take the next step and suggest an alternative.

That's fine, but that's how I post sometimes, I go into what I'm confident of and hold back on what I'm not confident of. But you'll find I mentioned multiple alternatives in the same comment, so it's a rather confusing complaint.

You don't have to read my posts if you don't find them useful of course, the ignore button is always there.

It might be that the people saying we should keep berry also aren’t happy with his output but recognise we not not might be able to get much more on the open market at a cost that would be worth it. The decision to get rid of berry and the evaluation of our ability to replace him are intrinsically linked and the reason people might be disagreeing with you probably has something to do with that.

Sure, they can bring that up if that's the case. Nobody has done so before you.

 

[Elixuh]

Bugger off. I'm allowed to not rate a player and not think he's worth the money he might be offered elsewhere while not being the greatest at talent identification from other clubs. See, I watch the Lions much more than I watch other clubs, so I have a better idea of who's performing here and who isn't, compared to who's got potential at other clubs. I can bring up whatever I please.

You understand the point of a forum though yeah? Facebook might be more your jam if you just want to post thoughts without any discussion.

It’s going to be tough with three ts if you want to throw out we need to get rid of a long-standing and loyal servant of the club who has been one of the best on the past few weeks, but also I don’t want to offer any other analysis other than that.

 

[McIvor]

Just to be clear, are you for or against tanking at 2-4 with a primed list?

I’ve always been against tanking, but not sure where you get a “primed list” from.

 

[BRAB]

That's fine, but that's how I post sometimes, I go into what I'm confident of and hold back on what I'm not confident of. But you'll find I mentioned multiple alternatives in the same comment, so it's a rather confusing complaint.

You don't have to read my posts if you don't find them useful of course, the ignore button is always there.


Sure, they can bring that up if that's the case. Nobody has done so before you.

I feel like you’ve spent so much time cutting up people’s posts today that you’ve lost track of what people were actually saying. The entire thrust of the conversation was about whether a suitable alternative to berry exists.

 

[BangyBangy]

I see zero reason to tank. Even when we had pick 1 he turned out to be a dud........

This club can't do anything right. I don't know why we didn't take Harley Reid instead of Cam.

 

[briztoon]

I’ve always been against tanking, but not sure where you get a “primed list” from.

Daniel Hoyne, Champion Data, on SEN.

 

[martinson]

I'm enjoying the full and frank discussions tonight.

 

[M Malice]

Daniel Hoyne, Champion Data, on SEN.

+ We made a Grand Final not all that long ago and lost by under a kick, also been top 4 end of H&A season 4 of last 5 seasons.

History suggests we at or near our best are a serious contender for a flag, albeit everything has to go pretty well re injuries to vital players as with any team.

 

[martinson]

Daniel Hoyne, Champion Data, on SEN.

He was the one that said we were going better than anybody else didn't he , despite our 2-3 record.

All these data nuts get a bit too wound up in the whole thing and often lose sight of what's staring you in the face based on your observations.

It has its place if you have a good handle on the context.

 

[Mr Ripper]

But if it's a toss up between discourse and intercourse I'm taking intercourse.

Had to settle for the toss up

 

[martinson]

+ We made a Grand Final not all that long ago and lost by under a kick, also been top 4 end of H&A season 4 of last 5 seasons.

History suggests we are at or near our best a serious contender for a flag, albeit everything has to go pretty well re injuries to vital players as with any team.

Don't think we're near it this year M Malice.

Don't see the hunger or desire that I see in others teams.

We don't get that back overnight but we can get it back over time.

Before anyone goes off their nut this is jmho based on watching us play compared to others. We still have the capacity in us but to sustain it across a series of matches to rack up multiple wins on end I can't see.

Of course I could be wrong. We have 6 matches coming up where we need to be winning 5 ,4 at the minimum to be still in the hunt.

 

[The Flying Belgian]

Had to settle for the toss up

Don't make me get out my John Inman gif again.

 

[Elixuh]

I'm enjoying the full and frank discussions tonight.

We've found Ironmonger's burner account

 

[SpecialBruce]

Don't think we're near it this year M Malice.

Don't see the hunger or desire that I see in others teams.

We don't get that back overnight but we can get it back over time.

Before anyone goes off their nut this is jmho based on watching us play compared to others. We still have the capacity in us but to sustain it across a series of matches to rack up multiple wins on end I can't see.

Of course I could be wrong. We have 6 matches coming up where we need to be winning 5 ,4 at the minimum to be still in the hunt.

We need to win five of the next six. Anything less and we are no chance.

Apart from GWS, we are playing s**t teams in the next six matches.

If we lose our next two its time for a mini rebuild. Anyone who thinks we can contend after 2-6 is living in fantasy land and I want their magic mushrooms. Even if we are playing s**t teams.

 

[McIvor]

Daniel Hoyne, Champion Data, on SEN.

Could’ve fooled me

 

[Johnny Bananas]

You understand the point of a forum though yeah? Facebook might be more your jam if you just want to post thoughts without any discussion.

It’s going to be tough with three ts if you want to throw out we need to get rid of a long-standing and loyal servant of the club who has been one of the best on the past few weeks, but also I don’t want to offer any other analysis other than that.

Except I did. I gave three names within the club and five names outside it. Or have you forgotten that in your moral crusade against anyone who doesn't show sufficient love for your good buddy Berry?

I feel like you’ve spent so much time cutting up people’s posts today that you’ve lost track of what people were actually saying. The entire thrust of the conversation was about whether a suitable alternative to berry exists.

The conversation started with me talking about how I don't rate Berry, then Elixuh protesting he's a fine player and good for culture, and later they asked me who he should be replaced with and I gave three names within the club and five names outside it. Did you notice that before you rode in on your high horse to pass moral judgement? (in a weak as p*ss manner too, you complained about me without having the guts to tag or quote me). I think you, like Elixuh, are like a bull seeing red when someone doesn't show sufficient loyalty to a player you're fond of, and charging regrdless of what happens thereafter.

Could you please point out to me where exactly the people who had an issue with my comments said "we not not might be able to get much more on the open market at a cost that would be worth it"? I also don't recall anyone else saying "The decision to get rid of berry and the evaluation of our ability to replace him are intrinsically linked", but that's irrelevant since I offered multiple names for replacements.

 

[briztoon]

We need to win five of the next six. Anything less and we are no chance.

Apart from GWS, we are playing s**t teams in the next six matches.

If we lose our next two its time for a mini rebuild.

I mean, any thing is possible, but I don’t see how we manage a mini rebuild.

Our drafting for the next two or three years is pretty much laid out there, with our father sons and academy kids coming through.

Don’t believe we’ll have the draft capital to be active in the trade market.

Anyone who thinks we can contend after 2-6 is living in fantasy land and I want their magic mushrooms. Even if we are playing s**t teams.

 

[Elixuh]

Except I did. I gave three names within the club and five names outside it. Or have you forgotten that in your moral crusade against anyone who doesn't show sufficient love for your good buddy Berry?


The conversation started with me talking about how I don't rate Berry, then Elixuh protesting he's a fine player and good for culture, and later they asked me who he should be replaced with and I gave three names within the club and five names outside it. Did you notice that before you rode in on your high horse to pass moral judgement? (in a weak as p*ss manner too, you complained about me without having the guts to tag or quote me). I think you, like Elixuh, are like a bull seeing red when someone doesn't show sufficient loyalty to a player you're fond of, and charging regrdless of what happens thereafter.

Could you please point out to me where exactly the people who had an issue with my comments said "we not not might be able to get much more on the open market at a cost that would be worth it"? I also don't recall anyone else saying "The decision to get rid of berry and the evaluation of our ability to replace him are intrinsically linked", but that's irrelevant since I offered multiple names for replacements.

I was responding to a specific post you made. I can’t keep track of what your point is, you keep flip flopping around.

BRAB youre a gutless dog.

 

[Dalions]

Personally, I wouldn't be renewing Berry's contract. As I have said on numerous occasions his disposal is dreadful and he can't read the play, which is one of the main fundamentals for a wingman. He is not a smart footballer and the only position he can play is a defensive tagger where he can be led to the ball.
With Ashcroft back playing midfield next year, I like the idea of playing McCluggage, Wilmot and Fletcher on the wings and Coleman, McKenna and Answerth playing HB.
This would make Berry dispensable and leave a bit of money in the salary cap to entice a ruckman to the club.

To be honest, we ain’t paying Clugga $1m+ to plonk him on a wing.

 

[Section 5]

I mean, any thing is possible, but I don’t see how we manage a mini rebuild.

Our drafting for the next two or three years is pretty much laid out there, with our father sons and academy kids coming through.

Don’t believe we’ll have the draft capital to be active in the trade market.

Agree we won't have the draft capital to trade in someone decent unless they come free.
The only other way is if one of our top 6 players still under contract wants out, we will get something then.
That's not desirable though.
We get a likely top 5 player in Levi and as you say some academy kids that hopefully have talent.
We just need to hope the new academy rules come in in 2025.

Some posters talking about a rebuild but not likely or need for the club to go in that direction in my opinion.

We have done pretty well trade and draft wise in the last three years with only last years crop yet to prove to be AFL level.
Doedee would have but that will have to be next year now.
Draft the last 3 years.
Wilmot (pick 16), Lohmann (20), Tunstill (41), Mc Dowell-White (F/S no real pick needed), Ashcroft (2), Fletcher (12), Brain (zone) then last year Reville (zone) Morris (31), Lloyd (42), ZZ (51), Torrent (64)
Trade the last 3 years
Fort (basically free), Dunkley, Gunston (b/free) Ryan (b/free), Doedee (RFA)
Preseason Supplementary the last 3 years
M Cox, D Joyce, K McKenna

When you look at Richmond that won a premiership 3 years ago.
Draft the last 3 years.
Gibcus (9), Tom Brown (17), T Sonsie (28), S Banks (29) Judson Clark (30) Kaleb Smith (49) Steely Green (55), S Campbell (R12), Tylar Young (R26), K McAuliffe (40), L Fawcett (43),
Trade the last 3 years
R Tarrant (retired), Hopper, Taranto, J Koschitzke (delisted free agent)
Mid-season draft the last 3 years
J Bauer, M Coulthard, J Trezise,
Preseason Supplementary the last 3 years
K Bradtke M Lefau

Richmond only had 2 picks in the top 20 to our 4 and i would not swap any of ours for their 2.
Lions way ahead in the preseason supplementary selections also.
Trade wise they got 2 and we got 2 but Doedee yet to play. (Koschitzke & Tarrant cancels out Fort & Gunston)