Anyone think we can actually win next week?

[bisazc887]

Trying to think of next week

Saints have more stronger bodies that wll be less effected

Pies have younger legs that should be better

Both teams will make changes (coll more depth but then McEvoy is better than gardener injured and having 21 players like we did)...Will 21 for that long have killed us more?

Coll stars were quite but was it a co-incedence? Collingwoods forward line in the second half wasnt crash hot to say the least and whilst I have huge respect for malthouse why play your most dangerous forward in the midfield (Didak..is by far the most devastating..He doesnt miss many and kicks team lifters and game sealers...I love him not being in his most dangerous spot as a saints person )....

I Dont remember the last game where pies didnt miss chances and likewise N riewoldt....so all bias aside will any of that change when its been there for 25 weeks?? Some seem to think it will all be better=Laugable!!!


My conclusion is the same as this week, Saints need to stay in it to win it whilst pies need to do what they couldnt this week and put it away.

 

[didaktic]

I think we will win next week, because we now know we can't have any passengers. We won't leave it to a few and have uninspired performances from beams, ball, wellingham Etc who we generally expect more from.

We learnt from today that:
- N.Brown can compete
- Leon has played his last game of the year
- we need to curb goddard's influence
- ball will be better for the run
- beams will want to redeem himself
- fisher/gwilt won't be allowed to rebound out our forward 50 as much(need a defensive tag.... macaffer?)
- peake hopefully will be left in (liability)

I wouldn't mind finding out a couple of things....
- How pendles/wellingham/didak pulls up
- Will the mrp have some surprises for us ? goddard/jolly/various jumper punches

 

[Zahki]

I think we will win next week, because we now know we can't have any passengers.

I was going to say that I would hope the coaching staff knew that before the draw.

But then I remember they picked Davis.

 

[scruffydog]

I'm very, very, worried.

 

[Fart Cummings]

i dont care what anyone says leon davis cant play in the big games and as long as he is playing for you! you will have 21 players simple as that! f**k he is s**t on the big stage

 

[Number 10]

**** yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11

The pies all have GF experience (except goldsack)...and will come out next week, nerves settled, firing to ****

 

[coopernewf]

i dont care what anyone says leon davis cant play in the big games and as long as he is playing for you! you will have 21 players simple as that! f**k he is s**t on the big stage

Agreed. Davis = Shocker.

Although he provided one much needed goal, 6 touches is poor form.

Hopefully we'll bounce back next week. Wait and see for the Jolly report before I make my mind up as to whether we have a shot or not.

 

[KissStephanie]

For those who say the likes of Swan, Pendles, Didak don't play two bad games in a row. We don't play St Kilda two times in a row during the season. They were restricted because that's what the Saints do.

Oh come on now. When was the last time that St.Kilda restricted Didak, Pendlebury and Swan two weeks in a row? It's one thing to able to do that once, but it's another thing to do it two weeks running. Ross Lyon knows that, and that is one of the reasons that he preferred extra time.

Yes. We meed to be mentally strong. St Kilda lost last year. They threw everything at us and didn't win. They now that to get up again next year will be impossible. Do they have the mental strength to win again? They have to be worried.

I agree. I think that the St.Kilda coaching staff feel that they won the tactical battle and that it will be much more difficult for them to reproduce it next week. They wanted to play on, but thankfully there isn't extra time because they would have won I reckon. Collingwood will win the replay though.

Saints have more stronger bodies that wll be less effected Pies have younger legs that should be better.

Did you make that up? Yes Collingwood are younger, but Collingwood are also heavier by about 2 kg per player on average. Going by this theory, then Collingwood wins for two reasons.

They got a good look at our hand as well, mind you.

What? Our hand? That wasn't our hand at all. We played reactive footy and they dictated the tempo for most of the Grand Final. Collingwood got a much better look at St.Kilda than the other way around.

I don't think the replay favours us. We'll have some very tired and sore young players and the Saints looked like they were ready to play another 4 quarters right there and then.

No they didn't. They were as exhausted, and it was last years loss that enabled them to hang in there mentally. I don't think they can draw on that in the same way next week. Ross Lyon without doubt would have preferred extra time because he knew they had the experience of last year on their side. This Collingwood team also has Grand Final experience now, and a few Collingwood players need to have a good look at themselves and be thankful they have another chance.

Michael Malthouse without doubt wants to start all over again because he knows we will be much better for the experience next time and that Didak, Pendlebury and Swan won't be as ineffectual again. The replay suits us more. Collingwood has still only lost one irrelevant match in Round 22 (that we should have won) in the past 15 weeks, so we are not easy to beat.

 

[Knightmare]

To win we need to:

Blow the game out to 30+ points by half time to be any chance to win. 50 points up is breaking point, but any less than 30 and I wouldn't confidently say we will win. We start games so well and St Kilda finish games off so well so this is a requirement if we are to win. Can't win a close game against St Kilda.

To take the game on and not get into stoppage wars which in the 2nd half it was which played right into St Kilda's hands. Really need to spread and run because the Saints can't go with us. They are slower than Geelong. So make them look slow.

Ball movement needs to be as good as against Geelong. No kicking to contests because Gilbert and Fisher will pluck it 9 times out of 10 so look for targets. By quick ball movement the defence can be left exposed and this is the way we will beat St Kilda.

Keep the ball in our attacking half. This can be done by avoiding kicking in the direction of Fisher and Gilbert.

Bring Goldsack in for Davis. Brings allot more around the ground and means Sidebottom moves into the forward pocket. Goldsack brings good pressure around the ground and has played with reasonable success against the Saints during the season.

Beat Schneider and Milne. Can't have more than 1 goal each.

Do something about Goddard. Not sure if we have a "perfect matchup for him" but we certainly need to pressure him at every opportunity because he is their best ball user.

Luke Ball needs to beat Lenny Hayes at every stoppage. St Kilda will try to force the game into stoppage mode so if Ball can beat him more often than not it will go a long way to us winning.

Don't under any circumstances play man on. This is how we will lose. Work the zone and use that to continue to pressure the Saints. They are just going to kick forward and avoid handballing so know where they are going to kick it and don't play to kick it back at them but play it to move it fast.

Chris Dawes needs to stop spinning the ball when he is lining up for goal. Every time he went to kick the ball was not sitting right in his hands and he just needs to cut that from his routine. Every time he went to kick I knew before he was going to kick that he would shank it. Really made me cringe.

Crowd really needs to turn up to training during the week and get behind the boys. This grand final is probably the only grand final the boys need lifting for and fans need to make it feel like this is grand final week. They have been on an emotional rollercoaster and need you to get them up and re-excite and re-energise them if they are to win.

 

[A Bit High]

If Davis is not picked next week and you win, is that the end for him as a Magpie??

 

[camrock]

If Davis is not picked next week and you win, is that the end for him as a Magpie??

I doubt it. Between March and August he represents continued depth in forward pressure, which is an important strategic area for us. If he's surpassed in this respect by more than one player over the summer, he's probably going to have limited opportunities, though.

 

[kevind]

Chris Dawes needs to stop spinning the ball when he is lining up for goal. Every time he went to kick the ball was not sitting right in his hands and he just needs to cut that from his routine. Every time he went to kick I knew before he was going to kick that he would shank it. Really made me cringe.

I could not agree more. To kick accurately, you need to hold the ball as still as possible a la Tony Lockett/Jason Dunstall.

I was cringing too when I noticed Dawes spinning the ball around. On one shot it appeared that his final spin, before kicking it, caused the ball to fall with the seam at a 45 degree angle instead of at a 90 degree angle to the body. Makes it very difficult to kick the ball well.

Travis Cloke has dreadful technique too. His left hand leaves the football far too early in his action and it becomes a drop and a wing and a prayer rather than a guide onto the boot. In his run up he also waves the ball from side to side instead of holding it still. He can practise 500 times a week as they say he is doing atm, but unless those technical deficiencies are addressed he will always be hit and miss.

With regards to the replay, I think it will be very difficult for us to win. There will be significant mental scarring from losing a commanding half time lead. We also seem to be carrying quite a few injuries. Ball, Wellingham and Pendlebury all looked in poor shape at the end.

 

[skywalker1977]

I think the way u guys absolutely won the stoppages and restricted the ball movement by the saints because the speed of peake and ray as well as the elite skills of goddard and hayes would have done some damage.
The pies were great with their tackles, their fierceness at the ball and the pressure they gave u all.
I think that with that said the saints know that they can handle anything u throw at them this time around.
Thats a 3rd hard and physical game in a row for them, it was your first and the facts are the saints can get back up from this and prepare a hell of a lot better than the pies based on the simple reasons.
The pies had easy wins over the dogs and the cats.
Bring in a team full of warriors and the pies best gameplan with resting players from the prelim in the last term, well they wont be able to handle it for a second consecutive week.
Thats my opinion and i honestly thought that u guys had it won in the first term like the week before.
overall the saints biggest and heaviest do outweigh the pies heaviest but on average the pies are bigger.
By the way cloke is a gun and he is going to be up there with the likes of franklin already has 2 grand finals under his belt will be better for it for many years to come.
steele sidebottom is a shepparton boy and most were hoping he might have won the norm smith at only 19 how good was he????????
real star then u pie fans, it was great watching such a young guy not let nerves hold him down.

 

[Normy132]

Oh come on now. When was the last time What? Our hand? That wasn't our hand at all. We played reactive footy and they dictated the tempo for most of the Grand Final. Collingwood got a much better look at St.Kilda than the other way around.

We played our hand. They know what's going to happen. We'll double- and triple-team Riewoldt. We'll jump them at the start. We're probably going to tag Goddard and Hayes next week. They know we're going to put somebody defensive-minded (like Goldsack) on Gilbert to stop his influence.

Having slept on it I'm feeling much better. David needs to be dropped as his influence was non-existent both in attacking and defensive terms.

The other thing that was missing yesterday was pressure in our forward half or third. There were a couple of instances yesterday where players put in half-efforts whereas when they played Geelong they would have savaged them. That needs to happen next week.

Also, I know it's hard to do but don't get sucked into playing Saints footy. None of this stoppage crap. No more Hail Mary balls into the forward 50 like the second half. That was part of the reason why Beams and Davis became irrelevant. They weren't getting the short stuff on leads from the midfield.

 

[Saint4Ever]

Hey guys, sorry to intrude but I can't help myself. My thoughts were that you guys should have been up by about 6-7 goals at half time which would have made it very hard for the saints to come back; however when the going got tough in the second half when the game was on the line the saints were fantastic. I think some of your younger guys are feeling the pinch of a long hard season but we'll find out next Saturday I guess.
My prediction- Saints by 31, Nick Riewoldt Norm Smith

 

[Art Corvelay]

Hey guys, sorry to intrude but I can't help myself. My thoughts were that you guys should have been up by about 6-7 goals at half time which would have made it very hard for the saints to come back; however when the going got tough in the second half when the game was on the line the saints were fantastic. I think some of your younger guys are feeling the pinch of a long hard season but we'll find out next Saturday I guess.
My prediction- Saints by 31, Nick Riewoldt Norm Smith

I don't agree with your prediction, but I agree with the rest. Had we kicked those 2 goals before half time it would have been very hard for the Saints to come back.

 

[magpiewarrior]

There's many good arguments for why either side will be better next week, but one has seemingly been overlooked by most. Next week won't be a corporate or just interested observers game. The ticketing arrangements for next week mean that we are going to get a GF full of empassioned supporters (members) this should be to our advantage. Yesterday I would say that most of the non-Collingwood attendees there would have been barracking against us, next week we will have our voice in control and I don't care what anyone says that's worth at least 3 more goals to us.

 

[mattys123]

Crowd really needs to turn up to training during the week and get behind the boys. This grand final is probably the only grand final the boys need lifting for and fans need to make it feel like this is grand final week. They have been on an emotional rollercoaster and need you to get them up and re-excite and re-energise them if they are to win.

I love this.

No dropping off this week, I'm planning on attending both training sessions, if they are Wednesday and Friday that is.

We have to get behind the team, show them we are proud of their efforts so far this year.

Stkilda will probably only give their fans one look at them, so let's make the most out of the opportunity.

This is the last week of the season, get behind the team, NOW.

 

[the mighty T]

Hey guys, sorry to intrude but I can't help myself. My thoughts were that you guys should have been up by about 6-7 goals at half time which would have made it very hard for the saints to come back; however when the going got tough in the second half when the game was on the line the saints were fantastic. I think some of your younger guys are feeling the pinch of a long hard season but we'll find out next Saturday I guess.
My prediction- Saints by 31, Nick Riewoldt Norm Smith

Very well said.

And i may have to agree with you on our younger players starting to show fatigue after a longer season than theyve ever had. That being said, Sidebottom was terrific and i couldnt really fault Ried and N. Browns games

There was a lot of fumbling and easy mistakes made from the pies, not gathering the ball on first touch, dropping marks, not getting clean first possession which all can be attributed to nerves. I dont think we'll see that problem again

When i think about next week i can see it being tight for the first half then one team will get the upper hand and win by over 4 goals

Things to consider:

Did Ross Lyon show his hand by playing gilbert up forward? it clearly wasnt a match up we were expecting and i doubt MM will be unprepared for it again.

Will Kozi play more in the ruck? Certainly proved to be effective, especially with the third man always coming over the top in the second half. However it may leave the saints a bit more exposed up forward if it happens.

Will Nick Riewoldt play more deep forward? If he can beat brown and take the mark he is going to be the key to a saints win, but if he's playing deeper forward then its more likely he'll be double teamed. He got a lot of his marks and touches up the ground which was a huge win for collingwood.

Saturday cant come soon enough

 

[boxy2010]

I think the Saints played to their full potential yesterday, the pies showed glimpses of what they can produce and we saw that in the 2nd qrt.

If he had of iced the four shots on goal (2x cloke, 1 x blair, 1 x thomas) the game would of been over by 3/4 time seemed like the infered pressure made them rush their shots.

They will be better for the run and come out swining next week.
60 inside 50's to 35 or something! now that is a spanking! We just need to use the ball better instead of bombing to the goal square.

I was surprised we didnt see jolly in the forward line more.

Are there any MRP worries?

 

[Ant85]

I think the Saints played to their full potential yesterday, the pies showed glimpses of what they can produce and we saw that in the 2nd qrt.

If he had of iced the four shots on goal (2x cloke, 1 x blair, 1 x thomas) the game would of been over by 3/4 time seemed like the infered pressure made them rush their shots.

They will be better for the run and come out swining next week.
60 inside 50's to 35 or something! now that is a spanking! We just need to use the ball better instead of bombing to the goal square.

I was surprised we didnt see jolly in the forward line more.

Are there any MRP worries?

I agree.

I don't see why there's all this negativity from some Collingwood supporters on this forum.

St.Kilda played fantastic football yesterday to come back the way they did, and shut us down in the 2nd half.

We were hardly near our best, yet we were in front for most of the day, doesn't that say something?

Our midfield was convincingly beaten, yet we had more inside 50s than them. I don't expect our midfield to be as poor as it was yesterday.

And I think MM and the coaching crew have a lot to take out of St.Kilda's successful attempt to shut our run, and squeeze our midfield.

Chin up Pie fans, we have more room for improvement than they do.

 

[Docker Alyssa]

Chin up Pie fans, we have more room for improvement than they do.

I'd like to contest this a little. And a few other statements.

You certainly have more room for potential improvement than saints, because saints played your key players out of the game. But there inlies the hard truth. It's not that the pies "had a shocker" or played badly, they were shut down by their opponent. They were being tackled metaphorically most the game and sometimes they could break free.

The result hinges not on the pies ability to play like we know they did against geelong and other impressive games, but rather on the saints ability to dominate your players for a high enough percentage of the game again.

Here is a simple summary of the day

Saints did their job
Pies tried to do their job

This is why IMO the saints start favourites and why I was expecting a close GF yesterday.

 

[didaka]

We all know a week is a long time in football, and that's where the questions lie.

Do Collingwood implement their game plan more successfully in the replay.

Do St. Kilda implement their shut down game plan perfectly again in the replay.

I actually think the saints may find it hard to replicate that game plan so hard and effectively 2 weeks in a row.

It no doubt has to be very taxing to work that hard to shut down the opposition and they gave everything yesterday without the knowledge that they'll have to return and do it again a week later.

I'm tipping that the game may open up a little more next Saturday as it goes on.

The amount of pressure on us yesterday, and throughout the whole week was extrodinary, starting with the overwhelming favouritsm, the brownlow medal, the open training sessions etc, through to game day where we had only 2 players with Grand Final experience.

At least now our players know what to expect and can work on their preperation. Where as St. Kilda already knew what to expect and had a fair grasp on how they should prepare for the game after going through the same experience last year.

We also know that feeling of not winning a GF now, so that sort of level's out the hurt factor also.

Hopefully our players know what is needed to win now, and the push that extra little bit harder.

The fact we somehow conjured a draw out of that somewhat tells me that we're still meant to be there and have another crack at it, and to get it back on par after St. Kilda had already tasted defeat a year before was a huge effort.

One thing for sure is they must be wondering what it takes and if the St. Kilda football club are ever going to win another premiership, and we're in the same boat.

**** it's hard for either of our mobs to get a flag.

 

[No SPIN]

win the stoppages and we win the game - they have no plan B, if we counter their slow build up in this way.
LYON actually conceded on TV today that they backed themselves to win stoppages and get yardage until they were in the foward line and then make the most of F50 entries.

So its clear they will use the same strategy, we need GOLDY in to help blunt Lennie and Goddard. Improved performances from Swanny, Pendles, BAll will also help.
We win or break even in the stoppage and we win the game.

This is the SAINTS only chance, because they know that we will get far more inside 50's, and they were lucky our conversion was so poor. So winning stoppages to gain yardage is their only salvation.

 

[mattys123]

One thing for sure is they must be wondering what it takes and if the St. Kilda football club are ever going to win another premiership, and we're in the same boat.

**** it's hard for either of our mobs to get a flag.

We all should have known it wasn't going to be that easy for either side to win a flag, after all that the 2 teams have been through, especially over the last 50 years or so.

At least next week one of the struggling supporter bases will be celebrating a flag, no matter what.

I won't back down all week, we have as much chance, if not more (Gardiner out) of winning this week as we did last week, so I'll back our boys to deliver once again.

Of the "stars" on both teams, only Montagna and Dal Santo really didn't deliver for the Saints, and Dal won't next week, as he is physcially buggered.

As for us, we had the likes of Swan (tagged for the first time all year in the 2nd half), Didak (restricted), Harry (did 1-2 nice things, but can do better) and Pendles (started well, faded) who can only play better next week, and that may just be the difference.

Plus if the game does open up, we win, it's as simple as that.