Moved Thread Buddy or Ablett Snr?

[Chinacats]

Buddy has just passed Ablett Snr in total goals to be the 5th highest in history. It took him 86 more games to do it. Which player is better? I have Ablett Snr ahead but I’m biased as he was my childhood hero.

 

[RUNVS]

Buddy has just passed Ablett Snr in total goals to be the 5th highest in history. It took him 86 more games to do it. Which player is better? I have Ablett Snr ahead but I’m biased as he was my childhood hero.

Never saw Ablett Snr play to be honest but from pure statistics Ablett was the third best goal kicker of his own era while Buddy was so far ahead of other key forwards in his era that it is not funny.

 

[God Mode]

Never saw Ablett Snr play to be honest but from pure statistics Ablett was the third best goal kicker of his own era while Buddy was so far ahead of other key forwards in his era that it is not funny.

Ablett only played full forward for 3 seasons. But it's bloody close regardless.

 

[The 747]

I don't think this poll will be close, no disrespect to Franklin who is an all time great of the game. GAS is in the conversation for the best player ever.

 

[RUNVS]

I don't think this poll will be close, no disrespect to Franklin who is an all time great of the game. GAS is in the conversation for the best player ever.

Doesn't help with these sort of polls that the retired player tends to be remembered with rose tinted glasses. A lot of people have only seen the highlights of Ablett so they only have the highlights to go on and the people that did see him over time forget his flaws as a player.

 

[Chinacats]

Ablett only played full forward for 3 seasons. But it's bloody close regardless.

Yeah 4 seasons. 93-96 when he was in his 30’s. Coleman Medals from 93-95. Average 7.3 goals a game in 93.

 

[RUNVS]

Also this needs to be posted as it is a mathematical formula trying to adjust for the different eras

Buddy Franklin is a footy outlier and here's the data that proves it

An analysis of Lance Franklin's goal kicking reveals how he stacks up against the thousands of other players who have take the field in league football's history.

www.abc.net.au

 

[Chinacats]

Also this needs to be posted as it is a mathematical formula trying to adjust for the different eras

Buddy Franklin is a footy outlier and here's the data that proves it

An analysis of Lance Franklin's goal kicking reveals how he stacks up against the thousands of other players who have take the field in league football's history.

www.abc.net.au

Haha what weird analysis is that?

 

[The 747]

Doesn't help with these sort of polls that the retired player tends to be remembered with rose tinted glasses. A lot of people have only seen the highlights of Ablett so they only have the highlights to go on and the people that did see him over time forget his flaws as a player.

Sure, and the modern game is different, players have a lot less space. You can only really go on how far they were above their peers at the time. Everyone has their own opinion but for me - I saw most of GAS career - this is not close.

 

[RUNVS]

Haha what weird analysis is that?

It isn't perfect but it is trying to compensate for the fact that goals were far easier for key forwards to kick in previous eras.

 

[PrinceCharles]

Buddy the much better human.

 

[Falcon3518]

Buddy, it’s not really close. Kicked more goals in a harder era, has a way better finals record, won a flag, double the amount of AAs.

GAS was more “flashy” but really people who think GAS was better is cause of nostalgia. GAS was a finals failure unlike Buddy.


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[blinkd]

Buddy Franklin is a footy outlier and here's the data that proves it

An analysis of Lance Franklin's goal kicking reveals how he stacks up against the thousands of other players who have take the field in league football's history.

www.abc.net.au

Cool article, not sure I agree with the formula but it’s an interesting way of comparing different eras.

Regardless, Buddy was an absolute freak. I only caught the tail end of Gablett Sr but they were the best years of his career. I think Buddy is on par with Gablett Sr.

 

[Falcon3518]

Also this needs to be posted as it is a mathematical formula trying to adjust for the different eras

Buddy Franklin is a footy outlier and here's the data that proves it

An analysis of Lance Franklin's goal kicking reveals how he stacks up against the thousands of other players who have take the field in league football's history.

www.abc.net.au

Thank you for this!! I’ve been trying to find something like this for ages. The adjustments are exactly correct and that was the vibe I had about the order. Except for maybe Buddy behind Dunstal.


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[CharacterFirst]

GAS. No question.

 

[Appin Vet]

Buddy has just entered top 5 talks. Ablett Snr is and has been top 3 for a while now.

Ablett————————-> Franklin.

On a par with each other on drug inhalation, but Snr has the superior body count.

 

[scaryness]

In terms of skill and athleticism Buddy is probably the best forward to ever play. If you put him in a more friendly era for forwards then I doubt this is as much of a debate.

 

[Appin Vet]

Ablett would have 200 more goals if he gets the chopping of the arms was a thing during his career.
Basically a MJ v LBJ scenario.

 

[eaglespremiers]

Thank you for this!! I’ve been trying to find something like this for ages. The adjustments are exactly correct and that was the vibe I had about the order. Except for maybe Buddy behind Dunstal.

Not sure about the correctness of this.
For instance, why does Kennedy get markedly less of an adjustment than Hawkins or Riewoldt?

 

[Power Raid]

both amazing players but very different roles

GAS was a midget based on the role as FF and probably explains why he played wing, midfield and HFF until moving to FF late in his career. He was brilliant overhead and there was very little he couldn't do on the park. He weak point was discipline and consistency.
(malcom blight would be a better comparison to GAS than buddy).

Buddy was a monster with great athletic ability who commanded the number one position in every forward line set up. He played wing, HF and obviously FF. Despite his size and athletic capabilities, he was very ordinary overhead.
(Richardson would be a better comparison to buddy than GAS).


Arguably both automatic selections in the greatest 22 of all time, if the selection criteria was based on playing in the modern game rather than former years. Where other greats historical greats (ie Polly), simply couldn't get a guernsey in the modern game.

Who's better? I'd go with GAS but that's no disrespect to buddy.

 

[Power Raid]

statwise there is not much in it



buddy stands out for longevity, GAS for goals per game (despite not being FF for most of his career) but everything else is equal

 

[Falcon3518]

Not sure about the correctness of this.
For instance, why does Kennedy get markedly less of an adjustment than Hawkins or Riewoldt?

Judging from the graph it would be because Hawkins and Riewoldt kicked more goals in the last few years than him and these last few years have been when the comp as been at its most low scoring. Kennedy’s last Coleman was 2016, jacks 2018 and Hawkins 2020. Hence less of an adjustment as Kennedy’s goals were “easier” to get.


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[Falcon3518]

Ablett would have 200 more goals if he gets the chopping of the arms was a thing during his career.
Basically a MJ v LBJ scenario.

And he would have 400 less if he played against team defences instead of 1v1.


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[RUNVS]

Judging from the graph it would be because Hawkins and Riewoldt kicked more goals in the last few years than him and these last few years have been when the comp as been at its most low scoring. Kennedy’s last Coleman was 2016, jacks 2018 and Hawkins 2020. Hence less of an adjustment as Kennedy’s goals were “easier” to get.


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This is just a guess but I am willing to bet the formula also includes how in the modern game AFL coaches prefer a bigger spread of goal kickers, so the would be less thrilled with one player kicking half or more of the teams score than a coach from the 80's would be. That means Geelong's midfield has likely targetted Hawkins as a percentage less than the Geelong midfield targetted Ablett, so Hawkins has had fewer opportunities to kick goals.

So it would need to be adjusted, taking into account the greater spread of goal kickers in the modern game, and coming up with a mathematical formula to try and take this into account.

 

[Cursed Cat]

Buddy, it’s not really close. Kicked more goals in a harder era, has a way better finals record, won a flag, double the amount of AAs.

GAS was more “flashy” but really people who think GAS was better is cause of nostalgia. GAS was a finals failure unlike Buddy.


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Gary Ablett senior holds the record for the most goals kicked in a single finals series and the most goals kicked in a Grand Final.
Hardly a failure.