Coalition to revive work-for-the-dole program

[medusala]

The. Some people are genuinely unemployable. Especially when it's illegal to pay them less than $17 an hour.

Its blindingly obvious that the min wage needs to be scrapped for youth. Yet no one will do it. Vast numbers are unemployed largely as a result.

Odd how all those who bang on about a "social conscience" are so dismissive of some of the poorest people in Australia.

 

[Power Raid]

Its blindingly obvious that the min wage needs to be scrapped for youth. Yet no one will do it. Vast numbers are unemployed largely as a result.

Odd how all those who bang on about a "social conscience" are so dismissive of some of the poorest people in Australia.

I would prefer to pay the dole to someone over the top of a lower wage (effectively a subsidised wage) than see someone out of work.

The reality is, some people aren't $16.52/hr but we can't have the working poor so subsidies are worth a consideration. It is better than giving $500 a fortnight and locking people out of the opportunity to work.

 

[medusala]

I would prefer to pay the dole to someone over the top of a lower wage (effectively a subsidised wage) than see someone out of work.

Problem with tax credits is that in practice they are very hard to administer. The UK had a nightmare. Agree though it is madness to price people out of a job.

And heartless. Bit rich of a pack of ignorant tossers in Canberra to tell some poor kid they know better than him and they will decide at what rate he can sell his own labour.

 

[Power Raid]

Problem with tax credits is that in practice they are very hard to administer. The UK had a nightmare. Agree though it is madness to price people out of a job.

And heartless. Bit rich of a pack of ignorant tossers in Canberra to tell some poor kid they know better than him and they will decide at what rate he can sell his own labour.

I was thinking a bit more like Austudy where you can work and yet collect the benefit up to a certain amount. Similar, people could work for say $12 an hour for a maximum of 6 months and the remaining $4 to reach the minimum wage is paid via newstart.

 

[pokerspiv]

I would prefer to pay the dole to someone over the top of a lower wage (effectively a subsidised wage) than see someone out of work.

The reality is, some people aren't $16.52/hr but we can't have the working poor so subsidies are worth a consideration. It is better than giving $500 a fortnight and locking people out of the opportunity to work.

What you are talking about is frequently called a negative income tax and you are right, it's a much better idea than a minimum wage. Most people on low incomes eventually move on to higher paying work as they gain experience. Having a minimum wage can prevent that from ever happening, it's pretty much the worst policy in existence for the poor.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_income_tax

 

[Power Raid]

What you are talking about is frequently called a negative income tax and you are right, it's a much better idea than a minimum wage. Most people on low incomes eventually move on to higher paying work as they gain experience. Having a minimum wage can prevent that from ever happening, it's pretty much the worst policy in existence for the poor.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_income_tax

well you learn something new every day. thanks.

with any system there are pros and cons, as evidenced by the minimum wage and creating the long term unemployed. I personally like the minimum wage as I don't like the thought of the working poor. That said, as you highlight, to get people within the system a short term "negative income tax" could be a solution.

 

[Atley]

Do we really want people working for $4 an hour here in Australia? Because that is what is going to happen if minimum wage was scrapped. If you don't think wages would come down across the board you are delusional. Its a Woolies and Coles dream.

 

[Power Raid]

Do we really want people working for $4 an hour here in Australia? Because that is what is going to happen if minimum wage was scrapped. If you don't think wages would come down across the board you are delusional. Its a Woolies and Coles dream.

I don't think anyone is suggesting reducing the minimum wage. I think the suggestion is to operate a little more like Austudy where you can work and earn a certain amount without affecting your benefits.

So for a period of time, for arguments sake 6 months, a long term unemployed person can work for $16.10 (the minimum wage) but a percentage is subsidised by a benefit.

and your right coles, woolies, cleaning companies, factories etc would benefit and some companies may even try and rort the system. but I am sure clever people fleshing out clever policy can find a solution to this, if they cared. I guess it is just an idea as to how to help people back in the workforce and give long term opportunities for the individual for a short term price.

 

[pokerspiv]

Do we really want people working for $4 an hour here in Australia? Because that is what is going to happen if minimum wage was scrapped. If you don't think wages would come down across the board you are delusional. Its a Woolies and Coles dream.

Wages would come down, but so would prices to a certain extent. Australia is a very expensive country, so expensive that someone earning $10 an hour in the US has as much spending power as someone earning $17 an hour in Australia. And in the process, more jobs would be created which would reduce unemployment.

Subsidising income is better in every way than a minimum wage.

 

[mottrain]

Wages would come down, but so would prices to a certain extent. Australia is a very expensive country, so expensive that someone earning $10 an hour in the US has as much spending power as someone earning $17 an hour in Australia. And in the process, more jobs would be created which would reduce unemployment.

Subsidising income is better in every way than a minimum wage.

We're lucky for this. It is a good thing in many ways when we compare it to the world.

 

[NSWCROW]

but so would prices to a certain extent.

HAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

(deep breath )

HAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

 

[pokerspiv]

We're lucky for this. It is a good thing in many ways when we compare it to the world.

I fail to see the benefit of extremely high prices for anything. It's actually a significant factor in quality of life for the poor.

 

[Furn2]

US employment is higher than here and I have been there twice and haven't seen any significant difference in pricing between normal products and products supposedly defended by the service industry via tips.

Basically the rich business owners are gonna benefit no matter what ??

 

[pokerspiv]

US employment is higher than here and I have been there twice and haven't seen any significant difference in pricing between normal products and products supposedly defended by the service industry via tips.

You haven't been looking very hard then.

http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=United States&city1=Dallas, TX&country2=Australia&city2=Perth

Numbeo even calculates purchasing power for you. The average person in Perth is worse off than the average person in Dallas. Despite the much higher average wage in Perth, you can buy less with it than you can with the average wage in Dallas. The US is much cheaper than Australia for just about everything.

Higher wages affect the price of everything, not just restaurant meals.

 

[Furn2]

You haven't been looking very hard then.

http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=United States&city1=Dallas, TX&country2=Australia&city2=Perth

Numbeo even calculates purchasing power for you. The average person in Perth is worse off than the average person in Dallas. Despite the much higher average wage in Perth, you can buy less with it than you can with the average wage in Dallas. The US is much cheaper than Australia for just about everything.

Higher wages affect the price of everything, not just restaurant meals.

You miss the point if you have to tip yourself $5 to take a piss ?

Thats my point, tips make the rich richer, by enabling slave labour.

Otherwise there would be huge gap between the tip based service industry (bars and reaturants) and the no tip based secondary/primary retail industry(supermarkets/factorys etc) . There isnt. Bars are cheaper in Europe than the US.

Are you saying the 6% unemployed in the US are better off than the 6% unemployed here ?

 

[pokerspiv]

Are you saying the 6% unemployed in the US are better off than the 6% unemployed here ?

Australia's unemployment rate is much higher than 6%, but much of it is hidden by the disability pension.

But yes, the people working for $7.50 an hour in America are much better off than people on welfare in Australia. Not only is $7.50 an hour more than what you would receive on the dole, but $300 goes a lot further in the US than it does in Australia.

Working for $7.50 an hour is illegal in Australia.

 

[Power Raid]

Australia's unemployment rate is much higher than 6%, but much of it is hidden by the disability pension.

and the participation rate

 

[Docker Clint]

http://www.theonion.com/articles/new-law-requires-welfare-recipients-to-submit-swea,36626/

 

[Maggie5]

http://www.theonion.com/articles/new-law-requires-welfare-recipients-to-submit-swea,36626/

Boy would I be in trouble as I rarely perspire even on the hottest days.

 

[Gough]

Another day, another backflip. This morning:
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...nger-to-get-dole/story-fn59noo3-1227015862350

SEX workers and table-top dancers who lose their jobs will not be eligible for a reduction in the number of months they have to wait before they can get the dole, sparking accusations the Abbott government is imposing moral judgments on the social welfare system.

This afternoon:
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...prieve-over-dole/story-fn59niix-1227016774279

SEX workers have won a reprieve, and will be treated like any other worker if they become unemployed, after the Government backed down from plans to treat them differently when they wait for six months to get on the dole.

Can you imagine how shithouse this government would be if they hadn't been "ready to govern" when elected?

 

[Power Raid]

That's the problem with religious freaks