Apex36
Hall of Famer
- Mar 26, 2014
- 39,114
- 81,756
- AFL Club
- Collingwood
Honestly he should be high on our list of targets. He’s going to be very good when he hits his prime.He would be an awesome pickup, which makes me doubt it
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Honestly he should be high on our list of targets. He’s going to be very good when he hits his prime.He would be an awesome pickup, which makes me doubt it
Until you compare Hines’ stats to all other recruiters then there is no basis to conclude he’s a poor recruiter.Has barely snagged anything with top 30 picks.
The thing that has saved us are some trades and late picks.
If it's not a top 5 pick Hind will butcher it.
Taberner is 30yoIn the wash up after last year’s trade period, I recall Wright mentioning us hitting free agency this season.
I can’t find a link to his comments, although this article quotes Jeff Browne who said something similar at the AGM:
"We will be at the front of the queue": Collingwood ready to move for 2024 off-contract stars
"We are a place where people want to come and play football."www.zerohanger.com
With this in mind, and noting that some players have already recommitted to their respective sides, who do we think is a realistic possibility from those remaining as a potential free agent?
Personally I really hope we don’t sign Bailey Smith and the he accepts the 2 year deal reportedly on the table from the Dogs. McCluggage is a better option. Similarly, I can’t see Andrew McGrath leaving, now do I think he would be worth paying a premium for.
One player I’ve mentioned ed previously, and who returned on the weekend from a significant injury last year, is Matt Taberner. He’s a free agent at the end of this season and would allow our recruiting team to either wait to see the crop of 2025 free agents, or hit the draft if they’re looking for a KPF.
Interested in everyone’s thoughts now that the potential list has been narrowed somewhat since the end of last year’s trade period,
What will we do with Taberner and McStay in the same forward line? McGrath is just an average player. Smith is no chance. McCluggage would be my pickIn the wash up after last year’s trade period, I recall Wright mentioning us hitting free agency this season.
I can’t find a link to his comments, although this article quotes Jeff Browne who said something similar at the AGM:
"We will be at the front of the queue": Collingwood ready to move for 2024 off-contract stars
"We are a place where people want to come and play football."www.zerohanger.com
With this in mind, and noting that some players have already recommitted to their respective sides, who do we think is a realistic possibility from those remaining as a potential free agent?
Personally I really hope we don’t sign Bailey Smith and the he accepts the 2 year deal reportedly on the table from the Dogs. McCluggage is a better option. Similarly, I can’t see Andrew McGrath leaving, now do I think he would be worth paying a premium for.
One player I’ve mentioned ed previously, and who returned on the weekend from a significant injury last year, is Matt Taberner. He’s a free agent at the end of this season and would allow our recruiting team to either wait to see the crop of 2025 free agents, or hit the draft if they’re looking for a KPF.
Interested in everyone’s thoughts now that the potential list has been narrowed somewhat since the end of last year’s trade period,
Has barely snagged anything with top 30 picks.
The thing that has saved us are some trades and late picks.
If it's not a top 5 pick Hind will butcher it.
Hence my statement that his recruitment would allow us to look at the 2025 free agency pool or the draft.Taberner is 30yo
Presumably play them in the same manner we attempt to play Cox and McStay, only Taberner is more mobile than Cox and a better contested mark.What will we do with Taberner and McStay in the same forward line? McGrath is just an average player. Smith is no chance. McCluggage would be my pick
Would that mean that McStay misses out? I can't see McStay, cox and Taberner in the same side. If you are looking at Taberner just as depth, then it's a yesPresumably play them in the same manner we attempt to play Cox and McStay, only Taberner is more mobile than Cox and a better contested mark.
Another KPF would also provide cover in the event that the other suffers a significant injury, like McStay did this season, thereby reducing our reliance on a player like Johnson.
For me it would mean Cox either misses out or plays reduced minutes from the interchange.Would that mean that McStay misses out? I can't see McStay, cox and Taberner in the same side
Fair call....I get it now. Carry on....lol.they count bc this was about trying to assess the performance of the recruiting dept in identifying & bringing in players that could sustain afl level output.
There are so many factors and variables to this. The biggest being is the coach and his effect on the squad as a whole. Longevity hasn't been considered also. There have been plenty of examples of sides winning flags and basically playing above themselves. Geelong is the only modern day example of a side being up there without having too many high end picks. Geelong were also lucky to have Hawkins and Ablett for free. It's starting to become very evident that sides who've had enough high end picks are going to be up there in the next 5 years. Our biggest problem is a lack of any real quality talls and that is starting to show already. That's on the recruiting staff and the leader is HineHere's how you recruit a Premiership team:
You recruit approximately 170 players through a variety of means over a 17 year period. And about 30 of that 170 survive and thrive and have been developed and coached well enough to get you into the granny. Then 23 of of them thrive on GF day.
The bolded is also how you recruit a wooden spoon team.
It's ridiculous to suggest that the reigning Premiers have recruited badly.
The concept that it has to be done with a particular set of means - be it predominately draft or trade - and that individual player types have to be added a particular way or that you need x number of hits in a particular draft range is just dogma that doesn't stand up to what we've seen play out across the AFL.
We've been saying that for over 20 years - Carlton's 3 pick 1s in a row and then all their other early picks who barely played a finals game between them. Gold Coast, GWS. They were all going to dominate. No pick one has ever played in a premiership for a team that drafted him after a wooden spoon. Here's the list of Pick 1s who have won a flag - Banfield - pick win traded to the premiers. Hodge - pick 1 traded to Hawthorn. Boyd - traded out of the spoon club. Headland - pick 1 in Fitzroy's spoon final year went to the merged team.There are so many factors and variables to this. The biggest being is the coach and his effect on the squad as a whole. Longevity hasn't been considered also. There have been plenty of examples of sides winning flags and basically playing above themselves. Geelong is the only modern day example of a side being up there without having too many high end picks. Geelong were also lucky to have Hawkins and Ablett for free. It's starting to become very evident that sides who've had enough high end picks are going to be up there in the next 5 years. Our biggest problem is a lack of any real quality talls and that is starting to show already. That's on the recruiting staff and the leader is Hine
I'm just a bit worried going forward the next 5 years. I hope our tall stocks are able to carry us for the next 5 years. The Northern clubs look scaryWe've been saying that for over 20 years - Carlton's 3 pick 1s in a row and then all their other early picks who barely played a finals game between them. Gold Coast, GWS. They were all going to dominate.
Personally, I think we're all stuffed for a while. The Northern clubs are set for a period of dominance, due to having the best of both worlds - good teams - a couple of them really well run already - and they're going to continue to get a stream of early picks through their academies and those kids will develop really well, as they'll be plugged into good well run teams with top players to learn from.
It's going to be longer than 5 years. Draft concessions play out over a 15 year period or even longer if you're really lucky. We're still benefitting from getting a freeby pick in 2005 under the rules of the time. Naicos will benefit us for 15 years if things go well with his body.I'm just a bit worried going forward the next 5 years. I hope our tall stocks are able to carry us for the next 5 years. The Northern clubs look scary
It's why I think the club needs to start getting on the front foot to counter the current narrative around 'inequality' in the League.Personally, I think we're all stuffed for a while. The Northern clubs are set for a period of dominance, due to having the best of both worlds - good teams - a couple of them really well run already - and they're going to continue to get a stream of early picks through their academies and those kids will develop really well, as they'll be plugged into good well run teams with top players to learn from.
It's the Western state clubs ears we need to be in. At the moment, they're running with vicbias and siding with the Northern states, but it's not in their best interestsIt's why I think the club needs to start getting on the front foot to counter the current narrative around 'inequality' in the League.
Inequality exists and always will in the League's current format. But the conversation is being dominated by the northern states who, at this point in time, seem to have the AFL's ear.
There are various inequality issues which aren't tied to draft picks and the development of players, such as fixturing and the salary caps (including the soft cap). Examples include Hardwick's salary not being included in the soft cap, annual games being baked into the fixture (e.g. our game on Easter weekend every year up at the GABBA, Opening Round, Gather Round).
I agree.It's the Western state clubs ears we need to be in. At the moment, they're running with vicbias and siding with the Northern states, but it's not in their best interests
The hierarchy of advantage is becoming:
Northern Clubs
Successful Vic clubs
The Rest
We've been saying that for over 20 years - Carlton's 3 pick 1s in a row and then all their other early picks who barely played a finals game between them. Gold Coast, GWS. They were all going to dominate. No pick one has ever played in a premiership for a team that drafted him after a wooden spoon. Here's the list of Pick 1s who have won a flag - Banfield - pick win traded to the premiers. Hodge - pick 1 traded to Hawthorn. Boyd - traded out of the spoon club. Headland - pick 1 in Fitzroy's spoon final year went to the merged team.
Personally, I think we're all stuffed for a while. The Northern clubs are set for a period of dominance, due to having the best of both worlds - good teams - a couple of them really well run already - and they're going to continue to get a stream of early picks through their academies and those kids will develop really well, as they'll be plugged into good well run teams with top players to learn from.
GWS lost too many players as they hit maturity we took Adams and Treloar and ess Shiels amount others.
When together they were already making top 4 nd had it held together would of likely flagged.
You are mistaking early draft picks as part of the core rebuild vs completely decimating a list and tanking for 4 to 5 years systematically.
Where these clubs typically go wrong is they get rid of too much experience including in the 27 to 30 brackets, they also don’t look for trading targeted mature recruits on the way up.
So it took Carlton Melbourne Richmond longer to build the contending lists. Make no mistake Richmond built the core off its early picks then stalled mid table with a raft of pick 9 which is still a quality pick.
They then eventually looked to trade table to fix the flaws and next minute flags came.
You are mis representing the argument no ones saying what you are putting out there as if we want to tank for 5 seasons and trade the whole list out over 26 and never trade.
The argument as well is about building a list that has potential for back 2 back or triple flags. Vs patch working a list together I get why they had another crack with our 30 plus senior players still capable and it worked. But to suggest every list rebuild should be done that way moving forward I can see also going poorly.
Even these last 2 years we won a ridiculous amount of close games had those been reversed we’d have been bottom 4 the last 2 seasons.
17 wins by under a goal or 2 over 2 years it’s in heard of but also suggests we were never truly dominant.
This is essentially my argument, so you agree with me that Collingwood doesn’t have the best recruiters in the game.Not sure how many times I need to say this - Geel are said to have the best recruiters in the game and had a gun KPF for close to 15 years.
And yet inclusive of 2010 they have won the same number of flags as Coll.
So please let’s end this absurd debate that our recruiters are crap and had they found KPF’s we’d now have more flags.
Geel have had both for 15 - and not achieved a dynasty.
People need to stop with these simplistic arguments.
The question that we should be asking is, "Is Hine the best recruiter?"Until you compare Hines’ stats to all other recruiters then there is no basis to conclude he’s a poor recruiter.
Further, if he was as bad as you imply then GW would have sacked him.
I'd qualify this slightly by asking whether Hine is the best recruiter for our current circumstances and future needs.The question that we should be asking is, "Is Hine the best recruiter?"
I am sure we can find recruiters that are worse but let's not set a low bar.
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True. Hawkins Father/Son and traded for Jeremy Cameron who wanted the regional life.Not sure how many times I need to say this - Geel are said to have the best recruiters in the game and had a gun KPF for close to 15 years.
And yet inclusive of 2010 they have won the same number of flags as Coll.
So please let’s end this absurd debate that our recruiters are crap and had they found KPF’s we’d now have more flags.
Geel have had both for 15 - and not achieved a dynasty.
People need to stop with these simplistic arguments.