England tour of New Zealand

[western royboy]

A fantastic game - great pitch - ultimate ebb and flow game played in the tight spirit - the game was the big winner

 

[Jimthegreat]

If my Aunty had balls she'd be my uncle.

Not necessarily in this day and age....lol.

 

[Jimthegreat]

Nothing wrong with enforcing the follow on, however Bazball cricket can lead to outcomes like today. Some of the shot selection on the dismissal's were what traditionalists call questionable.

Never have to enforce the follow-on bar time constraints. It is giving a sucker an even break. Bowlers can fatigue, as you do with 40yo and near 40yos fast bowlers and become cannon fodder. Bat on instead, get 500 ahead and you win easily. Steve Waugh cost us a whole series in 2001 making India follow-on in hot, stifling conditions. Not only did they lose but the exhausted bowlers were still stuffed 3 days later when the next Test started. Turned what should have ended up a 3-0 win into a 2-1 loss just on that one decision to follow-on. Bat one at 274 in front, get 550 to 600 runs in front and the series is won.

 

[sherb]

When was the last 1 run win? Was it Langers debut in Adelaide vs the Windies?

Yep. The last one, and the only other one.

 

[Borisdog]

What a great game.

This is what cricket at the highest level is all about.

Congratulations to both sides for their performances.

 

[sherb]

Highlights are in this article.

New Zealand beat England by one run in a Test thriller

Just the second one-run margin in the history of Test cricket, and only the fourth side to win after being asked to follow in, New Zealand triumphed in a classic in Wellington

www.cricket.com.au

 

[sherb]

We (Australia) aren't the only country to lose after enforcing the follow on any more, good times.

Test matches | Team records | Victory after a follow on | ESPNcricinfo

Find records of Victory after a follow on in Test matches only on ESPNcricinfo.

stats.espncricinfo.com

 

[t_94]

Amazing. To all those who deride so called ‘test match elitists’: Games like these are why there is so much discussion about preserving the red ball game at all costs.

 

[Silly Mid On]

Big smiles from McCullum and Stokes after the loss.

I guess they are kiwis after all

 

[cats_09]

Not sure if this was already posted, but I’d like to thank England for joining Aus on this list

 

[PhatBoy]

Never have to enforce the follow-on bar time constraints. It is giving a sucker an even break. Bowlers can fatigue, as you do with 40yo and near 40yos fast bowlers and become cannon fodder. Bat on instead, get 500 ahead and you win easily. Steve Waugh cost us a whole series in 2001 making India follow-on in hot, stifling conditions. Not only did they lose but the exhausted bowlers were still stuffed 3 days later when the next Test started.

Again though as I’ve said earlier in this thread, when a team’s only thought is to save the game, which you can 100 per cent guarantee NZ’s only thought was after they were bowled out, the thing they want more than anything is time taken out of the game.

Do what your opponent least wants.

 

[Cmarsh]

I question the value of Ben Stokes to that side.

Has a low average batting at six and doesnt bowl enough overs these days to be considered an all rounder.

 

[PhatBoy]

I question the value of Ben Stokes to that side.

Has a low average batting at six and doesnt bowl enough overs these days to be considered an all rounder.

Since becoming captain he has averaged 37 with the bat and 28 with the ball. Up 2 with the bat and down 4 with the ball.

And it’s not like he hasn’t bowled; he’s averaging 2 wickets per test

 

[Plugger35]

Again though as I’ve said earlier in this thread, when a team’s only thought is to save the game, which you can 100 per cent guarantee NZ’s only thought was after they were bowled out, the thing they want more than anything is time taken out of the game.

Do what your opponent least wants.

Wagner said in an interview after the match that they were happy that England enforced the follow on. He said that bowling in Wellington with the wind there can take it out of the bowlers where bowling 10 overs could feel like bowling 20 overs and they thought by following on the England bowlers could tire with the extra workload of back to back innings and allow NZ a chance to get back into the match with a big 2nd innings which is what happened.

 

[PhatBoy]

Also the reality is, in that top 6 when they DO have to revert to ‘normal’ cricket or dour play, he’s easily the best equipped aside from Root to do it. He has an extremely sound technique and temperament

 

[PhatBoy]

Wagner said in an interview after the match that they were happy that England enforced the follow on. He mentioned that bowling in Wellington with the wind there can take it out of the bowlers where bowling 10 overs could feel like bowling 20 overs and they thought by following on the England bowlers could tire with the extra workload and allow NZ a chance to get back into the match with a big 2nd innings which is what happened.

He’d have said it anyway. And look it may be true because it DOES create the slimmest opportunity to win.

But it essentially eliminates ‘saving the game’ as an option too

 

[Jascave]

What will the ramifications be for England after losing the unloseable in NZ in regards to the Ashes series later this year in England?

 

[Kyptastic]

We (Australia) aren't the only country to lose after enforcing the follow on any more, good times.

Test matches | Team records | Victory after a follow on | ESPNcricinfo

Find records of Victory after a follow on in Test matches only on ESPNcricinfo.

stats.espncricinfo.com

 

[The 747]

What will the ramifications be for England after losing the unloseable in NZ in regards to the Ashes series later this year in England?

Nothing. They lost by one run after winning 10 of their last 11 Tests.

But in general, Crawley has to be on shaky ground, they need to find a way to get Bairstow into the side and Stokes role may need to be reconsidered given his injury issues. Otherwise they are looking good for the Ashes.

 

[western royboy]

I question the value of Ben Stokes to that side.

Has a low average batting at six and doesnt bowl enough overs these days to be considered an all rounder.

My stats lecturer at uni gave us the best speech on day 1 about the value of statistics - some things can’t be measured - England’s results since he and McCullum took over suggest he’s got something

 

[largebus]

Amazing. To all those who deride so called ‘test match elitists’: Games like these are why there is so much discussion about preserving the red ball game at all costs.

You can care about the long term survival of test cricket without being an elitist who's too good for shorter forms of the game.

Don't get me wrong, I love red ball cricket and today's finish was fantastic but this doesn't change the fact 95% of tests are one sided affairs with the result foregone after the first 2 days.

Test match elitists deserve derision the same way they deride white ball cricket.

 

[t_94]

You can care about the long term survival of test cricket without being an elitist who's too good for shorter forms of the game.

Don't get me wrong, I love red ball cricket and today's finish was fantastic but this doesn't change the fact 95% of tests are one sided affairs with the result foregone after the first 2 days.

Test match elitists deserve derision the same way they deride white ball cricket.

Do you propose that people feign interest in a formulaic and forgettable version of the game that they don’t care about and is consuming the version of the game they love?

 

[Plugger35]

Nothing. They lost by one run after winning 10 of their last 11 Tests.

But in general, Crawley has to be on shaky ground, they need to find a way to get Bairstow into the side and Stokes role may need to be reconsidered given his injury issues. Otherwise they are looking good for the Ashes.

The English press haven't been as scathing on this England team after a loss as they usually are, instead they are praising them for being part of an all time great test match and playing an exciting attacking brand of test cricket that people enjoy watching so I can't see them changing their approach.

Stuff

www.stuff.co.nz

 

[largebus]

Do you propose that people feign interest in a formulaic and forgettable version of the game that they don’t care about and is consuming the version of the game they love?

It's fine to not enjoy them, but you also can enjoy Test cricket without having to label other forms of the game as "formulaic and forgettable". You could easily describe the last few Aus test matches as formulaic and forgettable.

IMO if Test cricket was as superior as you think it was it wouldn't be struggling to survive.

Ironcially it's only because of shorter formulaic and forgettable forms of the game that this match was exciting as it was. Whether test cricket has a viable future will probably depend on more teams adapting England's formulaic and forgettable style of play.

 

[cricketnut14]

I question the value of Ben Stokes to that side.

Has a low average batting at six and doesnt bowl enough overs these days to be considered an all rounder.

ya joking right ?

10 tons, 194 test wickets.

36/32 - more than adequate for a #6.