Expansion Expansion Clubs - 4 year health check

[madmug]

Ummm no.
You see youre changing the rules for both clubs to suit the argument.
Yes the Giants had nothing to do with the game before they entered the competition 5 years ago
But then again neither did the dockers have anything to do with the game before their arrival 20 years ago.

Neither club was picked from the state based comp and brought up to the big leagues. Yes the region of Freo has a long and great history with the game. The dockers club has had only 20 years and nothing previous to that. Hense thats when they were created. Just like we were.

Ummmm no.

GWS does not exist as anything other than a recently formed football club. GWS is not a coherent community. Its just a made up of parts of Sydney & Canberra. It will develop its own history.

Freo is a smaller distinct community & is, & has always has been, intimately associated with its football clubs. its akin to Port Adelaide in that regard.

You cant compare the football community & history of Freo with GWS.

GWS is a whole new ball game. Its a child of the AFL.

 

[coniglio_number1]

Ummmm no.

GWS does not exist as anything other than a recently formed football club. GWS is not a coherent community. Its just a made up of parts of Sydney & Canberra. It will develop its own history.

Freo is a smaller distinct community & is, & has always has been, intimately associated with its football clubs. its akin to Port Adelaide in that regard.

You cant compare the football community & history of Freo with GWS.

GWS is a whole new ball game. Its a child of the AFL.

I agree the actual city of Fremantle has a long Aussie rules history. The point being argued is the Fremantle dockers as a football club is 20 years old.

The Dockers were formed out of thin air just like west coast, Adelaide, Brisbane, Gold Coast and GWS. Port Adelaide is the only team that was an elevated team from a state based competition that can claim the history of it's long existing club.

 

[Colonial]

Ummmm no.

GWS does not exist as anything other than a recently formed football club. GWS is not a coherent community. Its just a made up of parts of Sydney & Canberra. It will develop its own history.

Freo is a smaller distinct community & is, & has always has been, intimately associated with its football clubs. its akin to Port Adelaide in that regard.

You cant compare the football community & history of Freo with GWS.

GWS is a whole new ball game. Its a child of the AFL.

And heres what we are trying to get across

I agree the actual city of Fremantle has a long Aussie rules history. The point being argued is the Fremantle dockers as a football club is 20 years old.

The Dockers were formed out of thin air just like west coast, Adelaide, Brisbane, Gold Coast and GWS. Port Adelaide is the only team that was an elevated team from a state based competition that can claim the history of it's long existing club.

Bingo

 

[The_Wookie]

Ummmm no.

GWS does not exist as anything other than a recently formed football club. GWS is not a coherent community. Its just a made up of parts of Sydney & Canberra. It will develop its own history.

Prior to 1994, Fremantle did not exist as a football club either. Both Sydney and Canberra DO have a rich - and longer - history of Australian football.

Freo is a smaller distinct community & is, & has always has been, intimately associated with its football clubs. its akin to Port Adelaide in that regard.

Port Adelaide as a club made its own bids to get into the AFL, and eventually got in on its own merits. This never happened with Fremantle.

You cant compare the football community & history of Freo with GWS.

Sure you can. You just dont want to.

GWS is a whole new ball game. Its a child of the AFL.

Fremantle Football club is also a chld of the AFL. Thats a fact.

 

[madmug]

Prior to 1994, Fremantle did not exist as a football club either. Both Sydney and Canberra DO have a rich - and longer - history of Australian football.



Port Adelaide as a club made its own bids to get into the AFL, and eventually got in on its own merits. This never happened with Fremantle.



Sure you can. You just dont want to.



Fremantle Football club is also a chld of the AFL. Thats a fact.

I think their is a quite clear distinct football lineage in Fremantle, culminating in the Dockers. That doesnt apply to GWS

Nothing like that existed, or exists in the made up area of GWS. Its not even a coherent community, nor a football community in any real way. It is the most 'made up' club in the AFL. It is a marketing entity to promote the game to the footy heathen in parts of Sydney away from the coast & including Canberra which is a much stronger footy community in its own right, with its own distinct footy heritage. The AFL chose to ignore that & just lump a new entity al all of them.

Be that as it may, we need GWS to work, it represents a huge investment/gamble by the AFL.

 

[The_Wookie]

I think their is a quite clear distinct football lineage in Fremantle, culminating in the Dockers. That doesnt apply to GWS

Nothing like that existed, or exists in the made up area of GWS. Its not even a coherent community, nor a football community in any real way. It is the most 'made up' club in the AFL. It is a marketing entity to promote the game to the footy heathen in parts of Sydney away from the coast & including Canberra which is a much stronger footy community in its own right, with its own distinct footy heritage. The AFL chose to ignore that & just lump a new entity al all of them.

Be that as it may, we need GWS to work, it represents a huge investment/gamble by the AFL.

So people didnt play football in either Western Sydney or Canberra before GWS? Your having a laugh.

 

[Colonial]

I think their is a quite clear distinct football lineage in Fremantle, culminating in the Dockers. That doesnt apply to GWS

Nothing like that existed, or exists in the made up area of GWS. Its not even a coherent community, nor a football community in any real way. It is the most 'made up' club in the AFL. It is a marketing entity to promote the game to the footy heathen in parts of Sydney away from the coast & including Canberra which is a much stronger footy community in its own right, with its own distinct footy heritage. The AFL chose to ignore that & just lump a new entity al all of them.

Be that as it may, we need GWS to work, it represents a huge investment/gamble by the AFL.

So because our history isnt as numerous as fremantle, although longer, its simply discounted and ignored?

Ok so basically every states football history except victorias should be as well.

 

[Taylor]

It would be hard for GWS to have a football history comparable to FFC when the state based competition doesn't resemble the WAFL in talent or football output.

It is like starting a team in the USA, there will be a history of the game there but Freo grew out of a football state and culture.

Sydney needs a generation of opportunity to grow the game.

 

[Kwality]

I agree the actual city of Fremantle has a long Aussie rules history. The point being argued is the Fremantle dockers as a football club is 20 years old.

The Dockers were formed out of thin air just like west coast, Adelaide, Brisbane, Gold Coast and GWS. Port Adelaide is the only team that was an elevated team from a state based competition that can claim the history of it's long existing club.

Not sure I challenged the time frame - my point is how misleading the time frame can be.

 

[Kwality]

So because our history isnt as numerous as fremantle, although longer, its simply discounted and ignored?

Ok so basically every states football history except victorias should be as well.

Nope, didn't discount NSW footy history, even played in Sydney myself eons ago. It was our good mod who tried to go off down that tangent.

As for NSW footy it produced Haydn Bunton Snr in the 1920s, its got a long history.

 

[The_Wookie]

Nope, didn't discount NSW footy history, even played in Sydney myself eons ago. It was our good mod who tried to go off down that tangent.

You introduced fremantles football history when talking about a club with a 20 year lifespan, created out of thin air for a team to enter the AFL - just like GWS. I wondered why you'd ignore Sydneys longer and just as traditional - if not quite as popular - history when talking about GWS. Both clubs are artificial creations.

Oh and I didnt start this - you set off the Giants fans first and then called them ignorant.

Check out the 1890s, Freo was alive & well, produced both East & South Freo with proud history, now a team in the national comp - 20 years you say, bog ignorance !!

I didnt post until after that post. Not that you stopped after.

Make up your own mind - is footy in NSW comparable with footy in WA or is NSW a development market & WA a traditional footy state?

Not deliberately putting it down GG, the comparison I sought to make was Freo has a long history in footy - comparing Freo & GWS was misleading.

Ill say it again. Australian Football in Sydney predates Australian Football in Western Australia by 5 years. And you wonder why the GWS guys get antsy over the disrespect.

and talking of tangents...wtf was this

The comparison of GWS & Freo : membership revenue? It helps to be in a traditional market even if the AFL timeframe is comparable, is it?

 

[madmug]

So because our history isnt as numerous as fremantle, although longer, its simply discounted and ignored?

Ok so basically every states football history except victorias should be as well.

I said nothing about ignoring anything. I just made MY point about the lineage of Fremantle's football as against the GWS which was created to cover a huge area of NSW & the ACT. Just as if Tasmania was granted its own team, it couldnt claim a lineage from the 1870's. It would be a team created now to represent an area which has lots of clubs & community football histories already their. Fremantle is one community & has a football line up to & including the Dockers.

Its a pity one cant make a comment without a certain 'attacking' cultural warrior making his comment, then erasing ones reply.

 

[Colonial]

I said nothing about ignoring anything. I just made MY point about the lineage of Fremantle's football as against the GWS which was created to cover a huge area of NSW & the ACT. Just as if Tasmania was granted its own team, it couldnt claim a lineage from the 1870's. It would be a team created now to represent an area which has lots of clubs & community football histories already their. Fremantle is one community & has a football line up to & including the Dockers.

Its a pity one cant make a comment without a certain 'attacking' cultural warrior making his comment, then erasing ones reply.

Yet freo can? Umm the Dockers is a made up club 20 years ago. It wasnt like Port. At all.

Your rules on this thread are changing.

 

[madmug]

Yet freo can? Umm the Dockers is a made up club 20 years ago. It wasnt like Port. At all.

Your rules on this thread are changing.

I dont make any rules, I just gave an opinion. You are getting a bit paranoid i think.

I'm not attacking GWS. Its a club created where nothing like it existed before, to cover a huge region with a single professional Australian football club, an area which is not a single community, which has never been considered as a distinct area.

That is a totally different situation to Fremantle's community & football history.

 

[medusala]

How are crowds, profits etc going for GWS?

How do average home attendance compare to Tasmanian games?

Have they gone up since the first year?

 

[blackcat]

How are crowds, profits etc going for GWS?

How do average home attendance compare to Tasmanian games?

Have they gone up since the first year?

they are about putting a marker in the ground... into the consumer and competitor market in West Sydney the growth spot, they cant afford them all going to soccer. They know most will go to rugby league, but those that dont, they want more of the share than soccer.

 

[Gigantor]

How are crowds, profits etc going for GWS?

How do average home attendance compare to Tasmanian games?

Have they gone up since the first year?

Probably going a bit better than Hawthorn's first four years in the VFL.

 

[medusala]

they are about putting a marker in the ground... into the consumer and competitor market in West Sydney the growth spot, they cant afford them all going to soccer. They know most will go to rugby league, but those that dont, they want more of the share than soccer.

Yes that's the Vlad argument. I am not drinking the koolaid. There seems to me a far better argument for the Gold Coast yet that hasn't worked out so well for various teams in the past.

 

[The_Wookie]

Probably going a bit better than Hawthorn's first four years in the VFL.

Its worth noting that the average crowd was much lower in 1925.

hawthorn 1925 - 8 games @ 10,750 ave
GWS 2012 - 11 games @ 10,285

Hawthorn 1926 - 9 games @ 8,611 ave
GWS 2013 - 11 games @ 9,701

Hawthorn 1927 - 9 games @ 7,556 ave
GWS 2014 - 11 games @ 9,226

hawthorn 1928 - 9 games @ 8,167 ave
GWS 2015 - 11 games @ 10,786

league ave 1928 - 17,161
league ave 2015 - 32,242

 

[medusala]

Probably going a bit better than Hawthorn's first four years in the VFL.

If you constantly suck on a large breast you tend to put weight on quickly.

 

[blackcat]

Yes that's the Vlad argument. I am not drinking the koolaid. There seems to me a far better argument for the Gold Coast yet that hasn't worked out so well for various teams in the past.

NFL/Boston Consulting and the Geelong President argument, he was the former managing partner of BC Australia, Colin Carter... just send them to Tabliabeau and the NFL hq and get it done

 

[Gigantor]

Its worth noting that the average crowd was much lower in 1925.

hawthorn 1925 - 8 games @ 10,750 ave
GWS 2012 - 11 games @ 10,285

Hawthorn 1926 - 9 games @ 8,611 ave
GWS 2013 - 11 games @ 9,701

Hawthorn 1927 - 9 games @ 7,556 ave
GWS 2014 - 11 games @ 9,226

hawthorn 1928 - 9 games @ 8,167 ave
GWS 2015 - 11 games @ 10,786

league ave 1928 - 17,161
league ave 2015 - 32,242

I'm not just talking about crowds - on the field, Hawthorn were absolutely hopeless for the first 30 years in VFL.

The lesson to learn is clear: don't jump to conclusions after 3 years, and maybe not even after 30 years.

If GWS is in trouble in 50 years time - then we should all start asking some serious questions.

 

[Gigantor]

If you constantly suck on a large breast you tend to put weight on quickly.

We're happy to take one for the good of the game.

 

[blackcat]

I'm not just talking about crowds - on the field, Hawthorn were absolutely hopeless for the first 30 years in VFL.

The lesson to learn is clear: don't jump to conclusions after 3 years, and maybe not even after 30 years.

If GWS is in trouble in 50 years time - then we should all start asking some serious questions.

Geoffrey Edelsten and his floozies, I blame them.

much prefer Mike Rublewski of Sydney Kings

Rublewski<Edelsten

 

[The_Wookie]

I'm not just talking about crowds - on the field, Hawthorn were absolutely hopeless for the first 30 years in VFL.

The lesson to learn is clear: don't jump to conclusions after 3 years, and maybe not even after 30 years.

If GWS is in trouble in 50 years time - then we should all start asking some serious questions.

Hawthorn had also existed for thirty years prior to entering the VFL in a completely different era that is in no way comparable to the league that GWS entered. Nor are the conditions of entry or the concessions granted to GWS anything like what Hawthorn received. Its a rubbish comparison.