Society/Culture Feminism part 1 - continued in part 2

[swiftdog]

Men's groups have some legitimate concerns. However, domestic violence towards men should not be an area of focus. They've got bigger fish to fry and should just let this one be. Concentrating on it makes them seem petty and out of touch IMO.

While I agree, couldn't you say the same thing about feminists that when told that men are victims of domestic violence respond with something along the lines of "but there are more women victims..."? Both sides of that argument just seem petty when I don't think any rational person could deny that:

1) There are more women victims of DV than men, hence, more of an issue for women's rights/feminism/etc groups
2) That doesn't dismiss DV where men are the victim

It always just seems to me that the most stubborn of feminist's and MRA's are either too proud, stubborn or stupid to be willing to concede even the smallest bit of ground on any issue. It does far more harm than good.

It's women's fault that they are the majority victims of dv... because they are the main perpetrators of dv?...

Some ******* strange logic there...

Stats for male violence often being due to violent upbringing from women?
Or evidence?

Not to speak for GP, but that's really what you got from that post?

You honestly don't think that a violent upbringing could result in a violent child to become a violent adult, regardless of sex? When you've been raised to solve an argument with violence it's not that surprising when that adult attempts to solve an argument with violence, whether it's in a domestic situation, public situation, work situation...

 

[Lebbo73]

Go ahead and explain the humour and the truth, please?

Maybe you should watch it again!

 

[CM86]

Not to speak for GP, but that's really what you got from that post?

You honestly don't think that a violent upbringing could result in a violent child to become a violent adult, regardless of sex? When you've been raised to solve an argument with violence it's not that surprising when that adult attempts to solve an argument with violence, whether it's in a domestic situation, public situation, work situation...

Not to speak for CM... But...

As you said yourself... "could"...
He said, "often because"...

 

[CM86]

Maybe you should watch it again!

Words are too hard for you?
You thought it was funny and true... Point out what you thought was funny and true, so I can... politely respond.

 

[Rustin Cohle]

Forget about feminism, forget about men's rights. Just look at the statistics. You cannot deny the truth when it is laid out right in front of you.

The statistics clearly demonstrate a gross overrepresentation of women as victims of domestic violence and males as perpetrators. This clear trend which is prevalent in many Western nations, including Australia, warrants further study at an academic level in order to understand the underlying reasons behind the trend. It's about discovering the reasons behind the violence, rather than simply saying that people are violent and it should be stopped. Domestic abuse must be understood first so efforts to curb it can be tailored to the situation. There's no point in developing programs if they don't actually address the underlying issues.

 

[cartwright]

http://www.dailylife.com.au/news-an...voking-aboriginal-rights-20150519-gh4wsr.html

An interesting piece focusing on Indigenous Women... and yet this government allocates 16 million, over 3 years and closes remote communities facilities.

 

[little graham]

[

http://www.dailylife.com.au/news-an...voking-aboriginal-rights-20150519-gh4wsr.html

An interesting piece focusing on Indigenous Women... and yet this government allocates 16 million, over 3 years and closes remote communities facilities.

What about aboriginal men? statistics show DV in remote communities is a 50/50 thing.

 

[little graham]

The statistics clearly demonstrate a gross overrepresentation of women as victims of domestic violence and males as perpetrators.

Do they? Rosie Batty is making stats up to suit.The number she's using for Australia, is awfully similar to the number in the Uk, the Uk with three times the population.

then there's stats like this.


https://www.facebook.com/notes/dest...ingle-violent-death-of-women-/875067735874305

Look through that list and see how many are actually women against women, or the perpetrator is unknown. Counting dead women say they're about male violence against women.

This page is for people who are sick of the sexism dished out to women in Australia, whether they be our first female Prime Minister or any other woman

https://www.facebook.com/DestroyTheJoint

 

[cartwright]

I counted 25 women died in their home.
Death by husband, partner or ex-partner:24

5 found in a car, or boot of a car.
all involving a partner, or ex-partner.

 

[little graham]

I counted 25 women died in their home.
Death by husband, partner or ex-partner:24

5 found in a car, or boot of a car.
all involving a partner, or ex-partner.

They're saying 38, here's the 14 they've added on.

May 13: Unnamed woman (51) died in hospital following a stabbing assault on the banks of the Katherine River the previous day. Kaye Woodruffe (52), believed to be a relation of the victim, has been charged with murder, remanded in custody until her next court appearance on July 27.

Stephanie Scott (26) killed after visiting her workplace at Leeton. Her partially burned body found 5 days later in a nearby national park. Vincent Stanford (24), a cleaner at her workplace, is charged with her murder.

^^^Nothing to do with domestic violence.

April 05: Unnamed woman (38) killed in altercation at Kalumburu. An unnamed woman (24) has been charged with manslaughter. She will face court again later this month.

This one's gold.

Mai Mach (60) stabbed to death at her home in Albanvale, her 4 year old grandson, Alistair, also stabbed to death. Her husband Brian Mach (61) bound & gagged and assaulted. Mr Mach’s ex-lover Cai Xia Liao (45) charged with murder, formally refused bail and remanded until July 22.

This one is dangerous, could of been anyone.

March 29: Unnamed woman (32) stabbed at her home in Larapinta, Alice Springs. She died before arrival at hospital. Unnamed man (37), the woman’s de facto partner, taken into custody. Investigations continue.

This one was random drug violence, not domestic violence.

Masa Vukotic (17) stabbed to death while walking in a Doncaster park near her home. Sean Price (31) handed himself in to police. He has been charged with murder, and six other charges arising from a morning of violence.

Again , could be anyone

Sharon Edwards missing from her home at Grafton. Two weeks later, police declared a murder investigation.

Again, could be anyone.

Unnamed woman (30s) found dead at her home in Forrestfield. Police suspect murder. Investigations continue.

Another thats not partner violence

Angela MacKinnon (55) found dead at her home at Gidgegannup. Her brother John MacKinnon (42) is charged with murder.

This could be anything, no one has any clue.

Prabha Arun Kumar (41) stabbed to death while walking home from work through Parramatta Park. Police investigations continue.

Traci O’Sullivan (41) assaulted and found dead at her home in Frankston North. Police continue search for unknown perpetrator. Her husband is not a suspect.

Again, could be anyone.

Body of an unnamed woman (29) found in a Docklands unit. Unnamed man (38) questioned. Police investigations continue.

Anther woman on woman

Ruth Dodd (71) stabbed to death in her home at Townsville. Daughter Alva Dodd (36) charged with her murder.

This one was a hooker in adelaide working.Nothing to do with domestic violence.

Ting Fang (25) found dead with her throat slashed in an Adelaide hotel room. Chunguang Piao (27) charged with murder, remanded to March 31

 

[cartwright]

There's a big bolded part of the tally at the top of the page. I suggest you read it.

 

[little graham]

There's a big bolded part of the tally at the top of the page. I suggest you read it.

You should read this... Story on april first.

The Counting Dead Women Australia researchers of Destroy The Joint are compiling a comprehensive list of women killed in Australia due to domestic violence. Today they have updated the count to 28 women who have been killed in Australia in 2015.

http://www.womensagenda.com.au/talk...-national-emergency/201504015543#.VVv_ilJqHOU

Lets count from April first back and lets assume that nones been wrongfully accused. Lets throw innocent until proven guilty out the window for a minute.

Whats the real number?

Why are they counting deaths that had nothing to do with domestic violence, if they're counting domestic violence murders? Why are they counting women killing women when they're advocating against male violence? Why are they counting murders where nobody knows what happened?

 

[Maggie5]

You should read this... Story on april first.


http://www.womensagenda.com.au/talk...-national-emergency/201504015543#.VVv_ilJqHOU

Lets count from April first back and lets assume that nones been wrongfully accused. Lets throw innocent until proven guilty out the window for a minute.

Whats the real number?

Why are they counting deaths that had nothing to do with domestic violence, if they're counting domestic violence murders? Why are they counting women killing women when they're advocating against male violence? Why are they counting murders where nobody knows what happened?

What number would you like it to be before you consider it to be a problem?

 

[little graham]

What number would you like it to be before you consider it to be a problem?

I consider deliberately adding one to a statistic and then fronting the media with a holier than now attitude, a massive problem

 

[BORK]

http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/pa...-her-breast-milk/story-fnet08xa-1227361629329

THIS mum couldn’t afford baby formula, so she made a fatal feeding decision that killed her 10-week-old daughter.

Lauren Fristed wasn’t producing enough breast milk to feed her newborn daughter so she made a terrible decision to dilute it with water.

Last week the 25 year old was charged with murder, after her 10-week-old baby died of water intoxication.

Little Nevaeh weighed less when she died than she did at birth.

Detective Charles Hamrick, from Duluth in the US, gave evidence in court that the family told him they didn’t have money for formula, so they started adding water to the breast milk.

According to a 2011 study by Cincinnati Children’s Hospital Medical Center, more than a quarter of families in poverty water down formula or reduce feeds. Known as ‘formula stretching’, the practice risks babies’ brain development, leading to problems with behaviour, memory and judgment.

The mother looks well fed. Pretty friendly tone in the article as well considering this is someone who has been charged with murder. Just a poor victim of unfortunate circumstances? Yes.

He added that while Lauren shared her concerns about her daughter with their ‘spiritual adviser’, her husband, George Landell, 26 — who has also been charged with murder — refused to let his wife seek medical assistance and chose to pray for his child instead.

Detective Hamrick also said the couple, who are ‘highly religious’ decided against pre- or post-natal care. Lauren even refused to take the pre-natal vitamins a friend purchased for her. They were reluctant to go to the hospital for their daughter’s birth until Lauren needed an emergency caesarean.

Inb4 what does this have to do with the topic.

 

[Maggie5]

I consider deliberately adding one to a statistic and then fronting the media with a holier than now attitude, a massive problem

Not the question I asked.

 

[little graham]

Not the question I asked.

We know that the numbers being supplied to the media are lies, what else is lies?

When does the lying stop and the truth begin?

 

[BORK]

You should read this... Story on april first.

http://www.womensagenda.com.au/talk...-national-emergency/201504015543#.VVv_ilJqHOU

Lets count from April first back and lets assume that nones been wrongfully accused. Lets throw innocent until proven guilty out the window for a minute.

Whats the real number?

Why are they counting deaths that had nothing to do with domestic violence, if they're counting domestic violence murders? Why are they counting women killing women when they're advocating against male violence? Why are they counting murders where nobody knows what happened?

https://www.facebook.com/notes/dest...ingle-violent-death-of-women-/873441666036912

• Zoe QuinnNot to take away from the cause but these aren't all domestic violence - Stephanie Scott as an example was murdered by an unknown person to her
  May 15 at 6:32pm
  • 
    Destroy the JointWe do not confine our count to only deaths attributed as domestic or family violence, as we believe all these deaths are evidence of systemic misogyny. Most of these cases are subject to court proceedings but we do know that in at least 24 of the cases reported, the victim knew her alleged murderer. D26.

Destroy the joint seem to be going under the banner violence against women. Other organisations(organisations and people with much higher influence) are taking their number and misleadingly applying it to domestic violence only. It is interesting that destroy the joint would claim it is evidence of systemic misogyny when including the deaths in non domestic situations. Much higher numbers of men than women are murdered outside of domestic incidents.

It is an interesting play on words they are doing this year. If you use the Destroy the Joint number under the banner violence against women it can look silly that all this media coverage is being directed to the safest group of people when it comes to being murdered. If you limit the situation to deaths from domestic violence it is correct that women are killed at higher rates but to be accurate the number would be reduced in the media soundbites.

A few organisations and officials are having a bet each way in the use of their rhetoric.

All of the murders described in the above link are deplorable and make for some uncomfortable reading.

 

[Maggie5]

We know that the numbers being supplied to the media are lies, what else is lies?

When does the lying stop and the truth begin?

I have heard Police cite similar numbers and whether it is a female or a male one is more than enough to acknowledge society has problems.
More needs to be done about it, instead of hair splitting numbers or the blaming on the victims, the violence has to stop whether it be DV or assaults.
We all need to be part of the solution.

 

[little graham]

I have heard Police cite similar numbers.

So what do you think now you know the police are lying to you as well? When does the lying stop and the truth begin? They're quite clearly playing the game, what other games they playing?

We all need to be part of the solution.

What about those complaining about the way men are tret and the hate spread in the media (including social), almost daily about them and bullshit statistics shoved in their face to shut them up? What part do they play in the solution? Men who've encountered aggression when standing up for equality.

 

[Maggie5]

So what do you think now you know the police are lying to you as well? When does the lying stop and the truth begin? They're quite clearly playing the game, what other games they playing?



What about those complaining about the way men are tret and the hate spread in the media (including social), almost daily about them and bullshit statistics shoved in their face to shut them up? What part do they play in the solution? Men who've encountered aggression when standing up for equality.

You obviously didn't read my post very carefully.
Who cares if numbers are out 1 or 2?
Did I leave men out of my post?

 

[little graham]

Who cares if numbers are out 1 or 2?

in the 5 months of this year the numbers are out a bare minimum of 14. Around a quarter of the other 24 have to be in some doubt. That could mean over half are wrong.

Rosie batty said on tv last night, (flanked by the premier and the chief of police) that 2 women were dieing a week of domestic violence (she said them, she has to take responsibility for them).You don't care she's lying, that says everything about your character.

 

[Maggie5]

in the 5 months of this year the numbers are out a bare minimum of 14. Around a quarter of the other 24 have to be in some doubt. That could mean over half are wrong.

Rosie batty said on tv last night, (flanked by the premier and the chief of police) that 2 women were dieing a week of domestic violence (she said them, she has to take responsibility for them).You don't care she's lying, that says everything about your character.

So as I posted it is the numbers you are more concerned about and not the victims.
Says more about you I would say.

 

[Keys]

So as I posted it is the numbers you are more concerned about and not the victims.
Says more about you I would say.

I think you're being a little unfair. That women are killed as a result of DV is tragic and there can be no doubt that as a society we need to find ways to reduce the number of these deaths, preferably to zero as naively optimistic as that goal might be. It is troubling though if the statistics are being distorted because quite simply it's dishonest and misrepresents the extent of the problem

 

[BORK]

I think you're being a little unfair. That women are killed as a result of DV is tragic and there can be no doubt that as a society we need to find ways to reduce the number of these deaths, preferably to zero as naively optimistic as that goal might be. It is troubling though if the statistics are being distorted because quite simply it's dishonest and misrepresents the extent of the problem

It seems like lies are being peddled to give the impression that the domestic violence problem is growing substantially. Last year the rhetoric is a woman was killed from domestic violence every week or every 10 days. Now it is being claimed there 2 women dying from domestic violence every week. More money needed to be thrown at the problem.

Only a woman basher would dare question this deception because it is for a good cause..

I actually find it more concerning that the chief of police would stand there while this information is peddled. I expect lies and deception from a politician but would prefer honesty and integrity from a senior police official on a matter of public interest.