Review Good/Bad/Ugly vs Richmond, R5 2022

[Mego Red]

Yes... the first one was the Balta pack mark, after Frampton got himself horribly out of position. We could maybe chalk this one up to Frampton's inexperience in defence. It was the least of his 3 offences, and on its own it's not a hanging offence.

The other was another fumble later in the game (3rd Q?), which led directly to a turnover and a Richmond goal, 5 seconds (and 3 disposals) later. It was no less horrible than the one you noted, which led to their 3rd goal.

Any comments on the fact that Richmond's three tall forwards got 62 forward entries and our tall defenders kept them to 5 goals total?

 

[Mego Red]

Yes, I invented it - but it does exist (I just gave it a name). It's a disposal which according to Champion Data is both an efficient disposal, and one which resulted in a turnover.

Frampton had 22 disposals tonight, at 77% DE - i.e. 17 "efficient" disposals & only 5 "inefficient" disposals. However, he also had 10 turnovers. This means that at least 5 of his "efficient" disposals were also turnovers. He specialised in the "efficient turnover" tonight.

The biggest flaw in your logic - besides ignoring the obvious possibility that 10 turnovers could be a statistical error - is assuming turnovers can only come through a disposal.

If you want to try and claim a player with 22 disposals (of which 17 were effective) ALSO has 10 turnovers, why don't you try claiming some of the turnovers came through fumbling the ball and not HAVING a disposal?

If you're going to make some silly invention, why not try that?

 

[TooFar]

God, I can't ******* stand this board.

Even after a fantastic win, the vast majority of posts are slinging s**t at players and arguing about what level of terrible particular players are

We WON, ffs.

It's stunning how aggressively negative and toxic the posting here is.

We're five games in, we beat Port and Richmond and lost two games by less than a kick. I absolutely would have taken that at the start of year.

And yet most posts are different ways to debate how Billy Frampton

17

Billy Frampton

Age

27

Ht

201cm

Wt

100kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.1

2star

K

5.1

2star

HB

4.0

3star

M

3.1

3star

T

0.7

3star

MG

99.0

2star

D

8.5

2star

K

4.8

2star

HB

3.8

3star

M

3.5

3star

T

0.5

1star

MG

99.0

2star

D

9.2

3star

K

5.6

3star

HB

3.6

3star

M

2.8

3star

T

1.0

3star

MG

107.0

2star

is ruining the club.

Goddamn, there is zero joy being here, all enjoyment just gets sucked out, even after an extraordinary win.

This is all true. And the reason I don’t post anymore. This place is a cesspit of player bashing. Social media brings out the worst in people.


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[CrowsB4hoes]

This was a 2 week suspension. Cotchin needs to be given at least the same. Those horribly corrupt biased umpires in our favour didn’t even give a free kick for it, let alone put him on report.

AFLW: D'Arcy reported for kicking

Magpie Sarah D'Arcy has been reported for kicking out at Blue Sarah Hosking

www.afl.com.au

 

[1970crow]

The biggest flaw in your logic - besides ignoring the obvious possibility that 10 turnovers could be a statistical error - is assuming turnovers can only come through a disposal.

If you want to try and claim a player with 22 disposals (of which 17 were effective) ALSO has 10 turnovers, why don't you try claiming some of the turnovers came through fumbling the ball and not HAVING a disposal?

If you're going to make some silly invention, why not try that?

Not a comment on Billy at all. But I think what you’re missing is that not all turnovers are clangers. If you look at the stats there are less clangers than there are turnovers. We know kicking to a contest is an effective disposal, my guess is that if we concede possession at that contest then it could be registered as a turnover as well.

 

[George Kramer]

Just so over Crouch. So slow to move the ball on and when he does, he more often than not makes poor choices. Watching him yesterday ignore good options to move the ball on and instead slows it and make a s**t choice was infuriating.

 

[Mr_Moogle]

God, I can't ******* stand this board.

Even after a fantastic win, the vast majority of posts are slinging s**t at players and arguing about what level of terrible particular players are

We WON, ffs.

It's stunning how aggressively negative and toxic the posting here is.

We're five games in, we beat Port and Richmond and lost two games by less than a kick. I absolutely would have taken that at the start of year.

And yet most posts are different ways to debate how Billy Frampton is ruining the club.

Goddamn, there is zero joy being here, all enjoyment just gets sucked out, even after an extraordinary win.

Generally post game analysis includes things you thought were good and things you thought were bad. How fragile would a person have to be to whitewash everything just because their team won.

 

[footy4ever]

Ugly:
The umpire not calling play resulting in the player on the mark being too scared to move even when the opponent is along side them and clearly it's play on. Just call play on every time otherwise get rid of the rule.

s**t rule with s**t handling by the umpires. The worst rule change in the history of the game. It’s an embarrassment to the game.

 

[Jarman3]

Tigers get on top in the third quarter … umpires say ‘Hold my beer’. Full strength Adel except for Seedsman. 32-13 in free kicks and you kicked 12-1 from set shots. It’s nice to win but I’d probably cool the celebrations - wouldn’t want to celebrate too early like in GF week of 2017 when Tex saved a seat on the plane for the cup


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"Celebrate too early"... It's an autopsy thread. The game is over, done, dusted and in the record books. It is not too early to celebrate the win after it has already happened. I'm honestly surprised that somebody could need to have this explained to them.

 

[GreyCrow]

Generally post game analysis includes things you thought were good and things you thought were bad. How fragile would a person have to be to whitewash everything just because their team won.

Especially in a Good/BAD/Ugly titled thread

 

[AFC979810]

Any comments on the fact that Richmond's three tall forwards got 62 forward entries and our tall defenders kept them to 5 goals total?

But Frampton sucks. He gave up 25 goals alone yesterday. I am not even exaggerating. It was that bad.

I also heard he kicked a baby, whilst leaving the stadium. And if rumors are to believed he created the coronavirus.

 

[1970crow]

God, I can't ******* stand this board.

Even after a fantastic win, the vast majority of posts are slinging s**t at players and arguing about what level of terrible particular players are

We WON, ffs.

It's stunning how aggressively negative and toxic the posting here is.

We're five games in, we beat Port and Richmond and lost two games by less than a kick. I absolutely would have taken that at the start of year.

And yet most posts are different ways to debate how Billy Frampton is ruining the club.

Goddamn, there is zero joy being here, all enjoyment just gets sucked out, even after an extraordinary win.

It is a good, bad and ugly thread. Just because we won doesn’t mean every single player performed well and deserves to keep their spot or escape criticism. You didn’t want any criticism after a close loss last week either, but the posters correctly identifying Sloane as a midfield problem were spot on.

If you don’t want to read anything about the bad or ugly, open a good only thread, they always go very well. You and the usual apologists can circle jerk in there all you like.

And for the record, and to qualify I was very drunk, I thought Billy was fine. He’s a genuine go forward disposal type, always looking to hit targets, which he actually can do. He’s worth persisting with because if he can improve his defensive action, he’ll be a pretty handy player.

 

[thebirdman 24]

My favourite moment was when Cotchin dropped his knees for a free kick inside their forward 50 but our player tackled low to compensate for his flop, then we go down the other end and score. If you watch the replay look out for it.

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[footy4ever]

I’m going to go out on a limb and suggest that it’s the first time we’ve ever had a +20 discrepancy in the free kick count in our favour. Can’t recall it ever being so one sided.

Watched the replay and noticed probably 3 or 4 gifts. Apart from that, it was simply Richmond getting pinged for s**t they’ve gotten away with for the past 5 years, except Dusty wasn’t there so his high fend offs weren’t addressed.

Commentary of a Crows match would usually be a huge sook by Vic media if Crows frees were soft or unwarranted. Didn’t notice much of that in the commentary.
Richmond play on the edge believing the collateral damage - the frees they get pinged for - is worth it, and in the past, they’ve played that way because they’ve gotten away with so much.

heck them bigly! No team is more deserving than Richmond to be smashed by the umpiring.

So heck them again.

 

[AFC979810]

Good:

Smith & Walker. Great games from them.
Himmelburg - Didn't realize how skillful he was. The last 3 games he has done some things he shouldn't be able to do for a guy his height. At 23 years old and 32 games in I am really hoping he is doing this because he is finally comfortable at AFL and not because he is just on a hot streak where everything is going right. Gonna be tough to watch if he returns to Himmelburg of old.
Laird / Frampton. Have really improved us since they both came in round 3. We are a 3 goal better side with these two in.
Sholl - terrible first half, but liked the way he worked his way into it in the 2nd half to at least have an impact.

Bad:

Umpiring. It was terrible and we got an absolute dream ride. We will surely pay for this later.

Ugly:

Watching the yo yo of Reilly O'Brien

43

Reilly O'brien

Age

28

Ht

202cm

Wt

105kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.4

4star

K

5.9

2star

HB

8.5

5star

CL

1.6

4star

HO

23.8

5star

D

14.4

3star

K

5.9

2star

HB

8.5

4star

CL

1.6

4star

HO

23.8

5star

D

12.6

4star

K

4.8

2star

HB

7.8

5star

CL

1.0

3star

HO

24.8

5star

. He does some really good stuff and some god awful stuff.
Brayden Cook's haircut.

 

[1970crow]

I’m just not down with accepting the bilge from frampton was horrible idiots

He wasn’t perfect, there’s room for criticism, but the crayon level nonsense this week is particularly galling

He was fine. But more importantly he was sufficiently fine to barely warrant comment

Really only Fonzie doing his best Marty impersonation though.

 

[AFC979810]

And for the record, and to qualify I was very drunk, I thought Billy was fine. He’s a genuine go forward disposal type, always looking to hit targets, which he actually can do. He’s worth persisting with because if he can improve his defensive action, he’ll be a pretty handy player.

With Butts, Jones and Brown all being much more lock down defenders it is also important to consider our backline structure. The balance was off having Murray alongside them...

 

[Mr_Moogle]

Just so over Crouch. So slow to move the ball on and when he does, he more often than not makes poor choices. Watching him yesterday ignore good options to move the ball on and instead slows it and make a s**t choice was infuriating.

Watch him closely. He always looks for a sideways option. It's muscle memory for him. Maybe he looks to dish off because he knows he can't kick. When he did eventually decide to move it forward, usually has no option but to kick to a contest.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Sorry, how is the team going to improve by anything we say on this board?

Last I looked this was a football discussion forum... so you may be in the wrong place.

 

[George Kramer]

Watch him closely. He always looks for a sideways option. It's muscle memory for him. Maybe he looks to dish off because he knows he can't kick. When he did eventually decide to move it forward, usually has no option but to kick to a contest.

That’s what he does. I can’t remember the play exactly, but I think it was Jones who was running past, just needed the quick give and Jones should have been rewarded for creating the run and option. He ignored Jones and just did his typical long bomb to a contest that went no where.

 

[Geoffa32]

So the 10 game high turnovers was a figment of my imagination, along with all the fumbles & the video grabs posted earlier in this thread.

You are an apologist for mediocrity.

The fumbles and turnovers come from playing a positive quick style of Footy with a predominantly young side.

As we play this brand more those fumbles and turnovers will decrease.


When you play a style like we are playing now you can recover from those errors easier.


Ben Keays is a great sample of this. He disposal looks awkward and untidy. But when his team names move to the ball, and he moves the ball quick, more often than not it comes off.


You can look at all these errors in isolation in negativity, but the bigger picture is quite positive.



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[footy4ever]

It is the biggest free kick discrepancy in our favor ever

Next highest was +19 in R12 2003 against Melbourne at Football Park

Like I’ve said. Couldn’t happen against a more deserving team.

 

[Geoffa32]

Watching the replay... almost any move a player in possession makes is called a "drop step" according to DerrrWayne

I haven't had a chance to watch the replay yet. How many times does he refer to Port?

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[1970crow]

McHenry 9 disposals, 1 kick 8 handballs, 2 tackles, 8 pressure acts, zero score.

That is a shocking game. Has to make way for Rowe who is at least a scoring threat, has goal sense, smart player and skilful. If McHenry isn’t even tackling or pressuring, what’s he doing in the team?

I’d give him a few cracks in the stoppage rotation before sending him down to the 2s. Apart from Tex, EH, Gollant and McAdam, I’d only select forwards that can have 1 or 2 midfield stints each quarter.

 

[jackster83]

Watch him closely. He always looks for a sideways option. It's muscle memory for him. Maybe he looks to dish off because he knows he can't kick. When he did eventually decide to move it forward, usually has no option but to kick to a contest.

And his long kicks only go 35-40m.