Israel, Palestine, and everything related

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blackcat said:
i think Kiev have shelled and killed about 5 thousand civilians in south east Ukraine, and just indiscriminately shell Donetsk and the other city under siege...

compare that to Gaza, overwhelming difference
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UN says about 2,500 civilians killed in Ukraine. Over 9,000 dead in Gaza since year 2000. Where's the overwhelming difference?
 

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eastfreo75 said:
Since the Romans (1st century AD) destroyed the second Jewish state until the third Jewish state, the area of has been in the control of different empires and immigrations of people has come from all of the world. No Nation was established in the area and the people differed in cultural and religious backgrounds.

Jews have a connection with land from 4000 years, but most of the Arabs have less than 200 years.
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Has it ever occurred to you to ask from whom the Israelites stole that land originally, all those years ago. Have you ever asked upon what pretext they did so? Think Hittites and Canaanites.
 
Already erased the small remaining parts of the Palestinian land in that cartoon?
Occupied-Palestine-Map-2-Stu.jpeg
 
skilts said:
Has it ever occurred to you to ask from whom the Israelites stole that land originally, all those years ago. Have you ever asked upon what pretext they did so? Think Hittites and Canaanites.
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Not sure the Israelites 'stole; the land originally. It's very likely the Israelites are themselves Canaanites who according to archaeological evidence, may have around 1,200 BC began moving into the Judean highlands from the lowlands, possibly as Canaanite city culture collapsed. The conquest model as described in the Bible isn't really supported by the available archaeological evidence.

The Israelites worshipped Yahweh as their patron god. A widely accepted theory is that the worship of Yahweh originated in southern Canaan (Edom, Moab and Midian) and the cult was transmitted north to the Israelites via the Kenites. All Jews, Christians and Muslims essentially worship Yahweh, even though they might not call him by that name.
 
DardySingh360 said:
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Why would you post a propaganda video that was made by Israel's Foreign Affairs Ministry?

As far as Gaza is concerned, technically it is not "occupied" by Israel. However, Israel maintains effective control which has the same effect as occupation by virtue of

a) control of Gaza’s land crossings (b) regular military incursions, air attacks, and the declaration of areas inside the Strip as “no-go” zones where anyone who enters can be shot; (c) control of Gaza’s airspace and territorial waters

Also Israel has the continuing ability to invade Gaza, arrest residents, and transport them for trial in Israel.

Do you have a video about Israel's occupation of the West Bank?
 
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Roylion said:
Not sure the Israelites 'stole; the land originally. It's very likely the Israelites are themselves Canaanites who according to archaeological evidence, may have around 1,200 BC began moving into the Judean highlands from the lowlands, possibly as Canaanite city culture collapsed. The conquest model as described in the Bible isn't really supported by the available archaeological evidence.

The Israelites worshipped Yahweh as their patron god. A widely accepted theory is that the worship of Yahweh originated in southern Canaan (Edom, Moab and Midian) and the cult was transmitted north to the Israelites via the Kenites. All Jews, Christians and Muslims essentially worship Yahweh, even though they might not call him by that name.
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If you could point me in the right direction. I'd love to find out more about this. It appears not be a clear-cut as I first thought. PM me if you want.
 

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Smiling Buddha said:
There must be an answer. This is not a coincidence. Read a News/Fairfax/ABC article on the current round of Israeli Defence Force bombing of innocent Arab civilians and you would think that the Israelis were merely 'defending themselves'. The same way the US 'defended itself' by invading and pillaging Iraq.

Here is a graphic I have yet to see anywhere in the Aus msm:
Israel.Palestine-Land-grab.jpg

And here is a concise summary of what has been taking place in Palestine over the past couple of weeks:


I will give credit to the ABC for the fact that they did air this Louis Theroux documentary. But not many people watch these kinds of documentaries; the vast majority of people get their 'information' from news bulletins and newspapers. Why is it that if you were to ask the average Australian today about what is happening in Israel, they would likely be completely oblivious to the genocide taking place, and probably even supportive of Israel 'defending itself'?
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Every one has a right to defend themselves. Its when defending becomes stealing and killing and saying you rightfully own something when you don't.

The formation of Israel and its backing being propped up by the massive military might of America has been the foundation along with oil to all the crap going on there and the radicalising of some Islamic people.

Those maps above show how the uncaring spreading of invasion by Israel, pinching every inch of occupied territory they can is an abomination.

Then you get the Hamas bashers , well they have done some horrible things Hamas, but I'd have to say if your a fighter caught up with your back against the wall and there is no hope , you use any means at your disposal. And of course slaughter and terror is performed by both Hamas and a mighty powerful Israel as well.

The only answer as I've said before is for Israel to "come to the party" and step backwards and give Palestinians their state , and finally to stop the thievery of new settlements.

I think the world and even brother America is getting sick of this super right wing country of nationalists called Israel. The Persecutors of Palestine.

Also more should be known about what Israel has become , instead of a nation for Jewish people who required a home it is an expansionist brute , body slamming Palestine into oblivion. Our media do not report enough on the truth.

In Syria and Iraq, ISIL is another story , they are criminals fighting and killing because they are unstable thinkers , its said that the West will fight radical Islam for a 100 years , I think its the other way around , I think radical Islam will fight the West for 100 hundred years because the West cannot let them win full stop.
The West has been given no choice by these people, but, to hunt and destroy them, ISIL will be the ones that will have the impossible job of destroying the millions and millions of reasonable people around the world, so that story ends there, they are doomed , or the world is doomed , no other way .

I think we know which way it will go, even if the rest of the world takes 50 years to kill every one of them.

I don't put Hamas in the same category as ISIL, no matter what terrorism they have committed , because Israel commit acts of barbaric terrorism each time they kill one Palestinian , in Palestine , which is what it is. ISIL live in the dark ages, their fanaticism makes them ancient and just murderers.

Only one answer again, Israel back off , return to your original borders , even though they too were stolen in the name of religion. Give Palestine what is rightfully theirs ,a sovereign state. Keep your own area of original Israel, or commit to be part of Palestine.

If this never happens then that part of the world will be destroyed , and it'll be because of pig headed religious beliefs.

NO ONE has to deny their religion , but using it to destroy other peoples' IS NOT what God or Allah or Yaweh or the Great spirit or the Dreaming what ever you want to call it, ever meant it to be used for.

We can argue this forever , but Israel is supposedly a first world country , grow a brain.
 
Smiling Buddha said:
There must be an answer. This is not a coincidence. Read a News/Fairfax/ABC article on the current round of Israeli Defence Force bombing of innocent Arab civilians and you would think that the Israelis were merely 'defending themselves'. The same way the US 'defended itself' by invading and pillaging Iraq.

Here is a graphic I have yet to see anywhere in the Aus msm:
Israel.Palestine-Land-grab.jpg

And here is a concise summary of what has been taking place in Palestine over the past couple of weeks:


I will give credit to the ABC for the fact that they did air this Louis Theroux documentary. But not many people watch these kinds of documentaries; the vast majority of people get their 'information' from news bulletins and newspapers. Why is it that if you were to ask the average Australian today about what is happening in Israel, they would likely be completely oblivious to the genocide taking place, and probably even supportive of Israel 'defending itself'?
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What a great clip. The GAS??!! What about the right of return. I got no affiliation with any group what soever , but I always thought the Israel thing was shockingly unfair. So gas and bullshit religious excuses hey?
Israel are committing war crimes, Zionism is committing war crimes, Jewish people and anti Semitism have nothing to do with this , this is political , and it is rotten to the core.
 
Total_Juddshanks said:
Are the following things untrue.

- Israel gives advance notice of military strikes, to reduce the prospect of civilian casualties.

- Hamas launches its missiles from locations teeming with civilians, and is doing its best to kill as may israelis as possible.

- imams in gaza have been broadcasting messages telling Palestinians they should stay put to give Hamas cover rather than evacuate.

- Israel observed the most recent ceasefire, Hamas breached it.

Because all of those things were just broadcast by an eyewitness journalist reporting on behalf of that well known friend of Israel the abc.

With all that in mind this is not at all a moral zero sum game. Israel may be replete with religious nuts and are at a minimum pretty cavalier about collateral damage. But Hamas are an evil evil organisation, committed to maximizing the number of dead and maimed people on both sides. They epitomize everything which is despicable about Islamic extremist groups, and I think it is hilariously naive to imagine there will be a peace process until every Hamas member is exterminated. Horribly rough on the Palestinian people who will cop it in the mean time, but if Israel is smart they will keep up this attack until there are no rockets left and no one from Hamas left to stand in front of a tv camera. Kill every single member of Hamas, and then let's talk about the peace process.
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You of course are a carpark man. Your brains have left your body. Insanity like that is total ignorant crap.
If you could get ISIL into an area where others wouldn't be hurt , a small nuke for them maybe. But thats impossible now if Israel does what you suggest , like kill all the Palestinians , unless your tongue in cheek, but if your tongue in own arse , like I suspect , then Israel really is the new Fourth Reich , Nazi Israel has, with approval from Juddshanks , annihilated and committed genocide , ethnic cleansing what ever you want to call it and Palestine the land is still there , but a smiling Chancellor Netanyahu has announced there are no more Palestinians , we have succeeded with the final solution.

PS by the way you think it feasible that a palestinian being bombed by an invader is going to deliver Hamas to Israel , the scum doing the bombing?
Hamas rockets have barely killed any Israelis and if they have its minuscule as to the number Israel has murdered. Israel is starting to look like bloody ISIL, WITH ITS KILL AND KILL POLICY.
THE GIRL IN THAT CLIP STATING WHAT YOU ARE STATING, THAT PALESTINE SHOULD BE BOMBED INTO THE GROUND, DID YOU SEE THE CLIP.
JEWS LIKE THAT HAVE TO BE LOOKED AT IS BLIND IGNORANT HALF WITS.
And you know what, that murderous bitch on a hill watching the killing , she has a big fat USA accent , FFS, when did high living American Jews need a bloody new home at the cost of a childs guts hanging out or a childs brains splattered all over the place. I wish that ignorant piece of garbage some misery of her own to see what real life is.
If you can condone that sort of thinking then you are a half brained twit with Sarah Palin brain power.Hah.
 
JoondalupJ said:
Every one has a right to defend themselves. Its when defending becomes stealing and killing and saying you rightfully own something when you don't.
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LOL

ahhh yes.. 'defending' .. the typical terrorist apologist rhetoric.

So you classify defending as intentionally firing rockets at civilians, kidnapping innocent children, building tunnels to infiltrate civilian locations to commit murder and suicide bombing cafes.

Not quite sure how this 'defends' the Palestinians... especially when we all know that Israel IS going to respond with air strikes.

Not sure what you're smoking but I want some!

The formation of Israel and its backing being propped up by the massive military might of America has been the foundation along with oil to all the crap going on there and the radicalising of some Islamic people.
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Sure.. America's actions can piss people off but to blame that (and Israel) as the sole reason why the area is so f*cked up is just about the dumbest tripe i've ever heard.

The left are hilarious.

The idea that the formation of Israel is the sole reason why you have religious crazed nutjobs beheading people around the world is just about as insane as it gets.

Those maps above show how the uncaring spreading of invasion by Israel, pinching every inch of occupied territory they can is an abomination.
Click to expand...

Let me start by saying i disagree with Israel's settlement expansion in the West Bank. Because I believe in a 2 state solution (even though the Palestinians don't. No, their thirst for blood and their charter calls for the death of all Jews, Christians and Israelis, and basically all non muslims. Same as IS).

But you seem to lack the important historic events that the surrounding Arab countries all ganged up and invaded Israel several occasions TO WIPE THEM OFF THE MAP, and LOST. Then cry about lost land.

THEN Israel hand back land (for instance) to Egypt for peace -> evidencing that Israel WILL give land for peace. Too bad the Palestinians/Hamas don't want it.

Let's just reaffirm the important foundation of the situation again shall we champ.

Hamas want Israel (and all non muslims) dead. period. NOT peace with Israel.

Then you get the Hamas bashers , well they have done some horrible things Hamas, but I'd have to say if your a fighter caught up with your back against the wall and there is no hope , you use any means at your disposal. And of course slaughter and terror is performed by both Hamas and a mighty powerful Israel as well.
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Lulz again. This is my favourite part of your post.

So basically we can imply that you support Hamas (but are against IS for some reason? anyway..) which means you support what they are doing. Which is basically summed up with:

step 1 - Commit act of terrorism against civilian population.
step 2 - hide amongst own civilian population and wait for Israeli response
step 3 - Make sure cameras are rolling (but not when when Hamas fire rockets, if that happens threaten journalists with violence)
step 4- ensure as many women and children are amongst the weapons stash to ensure maximum casualties (which shouldnt matter because we all know how much they love martydom).
step 5 - Declare Israel/US and the west (hey that's us!) the aggressors
step 6 - dance in the blood of their own people, and watch as ignorant idiots around the world (you for example) critisize Israel whilst they are given more aid (from Israel and the world) to turn into further terrorist resources (terror tunnels)
step 7 - repeat (whilst brainwashing children to become future 'martyrs') and celebrate in the streets by handing out candy when a terrorist is successful in killing the Israelis (eg the 3 teenagers a few months ago) or west (after 9/11)

Oh and they like to shoot any protesters who oppose them:

http://www.algemeiner.com/2014/07/2...ving-gazans-a-day-after-executing-protesters/

You support this filth. Unbelievable.

You criticize Israel, fair enough.. critisize them for individual things they have done wrong. I don't care. But if you support a terrorist organisation thats number 1 priority is the extermination of every non-muslim, then you are beyond help.

The only answer as I've said before is for Israel to "come to the party" and step backwards and give Palestinians their state
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Israel come to the party? what like when they offered something like 96% of land Arafat demanded and rejected? or how they let go 100s of prisoners (many of whom had orchastrated suicide bombings) in return for Gilad Shalit. Or do you mean more recently.. like how Hamas BROKE EVERY CEASEFIRE in the recent conflict.

How would you go about negotiating with a terrorist organisation whose sole purpose is to kill you and wipe you off the map (go read their charter).

It's cute how you think Hamas want their state, like they would co-exist with Israel (and their Neighbours). Not even Egypt will support them.

Maybe some Palestinians in gaza want their state, but their leaders don't. that's a fact.

Also more should be known about what Israel has become , instead of a nation for Jewish people who required a home it is an expansionist brute , body slamming Palestine into oblivion. Our media do not report enough on the truth.
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What are you talking about. There are arabs and non-jews living all over Israel.


Also, you seem to have forgotten the last time Israel gave up land to the Palestinians (WHICH IS THE FIRST TIME ANYONE HAS GIVEN LAND TO PALESTINIANS, EVER), they elected a terrorist organisation, spent just about all their resources building a terrorist base (8000 tonnes of cement into terror tunnels) at the expense of their people, and shot 18,000 rockets aimed at Israeli civilians.

Yes -these are the good guys Israel should give more land to.

Your plan to give Palestinians more land works if Palestinians want peace. But they (by the leaders they elect) do not.

In Syria and Iraq, ISIL is another story , they are criminals fighting and killing because they are unstable thinkers , its said that the West will fight radical Islam for a 100 years , I think its the other way around , I think radical Islam will fight the West for 100 hundred years because the West cannot let them win full stop.
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Hamas = IS = Taliban = Boko Haram.

They are all reigious crazed terrorists fighting the secular and anyone who is not muslim.

For all the tripe you've served up in your post, I actually agree with your line "radical Islam will fight the West for 100 hundred years". Maybe there is a small amount of sense in you...

The West has been given no choice by these people, but, to hunt and destroy them, ISIL will be the ones that will have the impossible job of destroying the millions and millions of reasonable people around the world, so that story ends there, they are doomed , or the world is doomed , no other way .

I think we know which way it will go, even if the rest of the world takes 50 years to kill every one of them.
Click to expand...

Yes probably.

And it is Israel on the front door step trying to deal with these types of radicals on a DAILY basis.

If the West and IS go into all out war.. who do you think is going to be on our side? Israel or Hamas? hmmmm

I don't put Hamas in the same category as ISIL, no matter what terrorism they have committed , because Israel commit acts of barbaric terrorism each time they kill one Palestinian , in Palestine , which is what it is. ISIL live in the dark ages, their fanaticism makes them ancient and just murderers.
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lol wut?

So when Hamas radicalised terrorist fires a rocket from civilian house (with the intention of causing murder of other civilians), then does it again and again, then hides his stash in the house (consequently making it a milatary target according to international law) and tells civilians to stay in the house to protect the weapons stash after Israeli warnings (texts, leaflets) to leave, and the house gets blown up (as it should to stop rocket fire and to protect its OWN civilian population) Israel are the terrorists? What the actual f*ck are you on about?

I suppose you think Israel should just let rockets hit their country? Let the radicalised muslim terrorist threat grow on their doorstep?

Only one answer again, Israel back off , return to your original borders , even though they too were stolen in the name of religion. Give Palestine what is rightfully theirs ,a sovereign state. Keep your own area of original Israel, or commit to be part of Palestine.
Click to expand...

I agree that this is what SHOULD happen. But you're assuming that Hamas/Palestinians are a peaceful loving group that want to live side by side with Israel.

They rejected Israel in 1948, and Hamas's charter STILL rejects them, and calls for the death. It actually calls for them to be wiped out.

I suppose if you have some ISIS extremist trying to kill you, you would then give them a gun and let them in your house? This is your logic.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, the solution must start with the Palestinians denouncing Hamas and terrorism altogether. Only then, there can be a 2 state solution similar to that of the 67 borders.

If this never happens then that part of the world will be destroyed , and it'll be because of pig headed religious beliefs.

NO ONE has to deny their religion , but using it to destroy other peoples' IS NOT what God or Allah or Yaweh or the Great spirit or the Dreaming what ever you want to call it, ever meant it to be used for.

We can argue this forever , but Israel is supposedly a first world country , grow a brain.
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Agree, that using religion as a justification to kill is wrong. But only your mates are the ones doing it! Hamas want every non-muslim dead! that's probably you included.

Israel are not killing or trying to kill every single non jew...

Overall - I fully expect you to come back at me with typical leftist rehotric without any supporting evidence (big evil israel commiting genocide! Apratheid! Genocide! kill! blood!) to some how justify Israel are 100% evil and the poor Hamas are just 'defending' themselves. But I don't care. I think you are beyond sensible debate.

So good luck to you!
 
JoondalupJ said:
You of course are a carpark man. Your brains have left your body. Insanity like that is total ignorant crap.
If you could get ISIL into an area where others wouldn't be hurt , a small nuke for them maybe. But thats impossible now if Israel does what you suggest , like kill all the Palestinians , unless your tongue in cheek, but if your tongue in own arse , like I suspect , then Israel really is the new Fourth Reich , Nazi Israel has, with approval from Juddshanks , annihilated and committed genocide , ethnic cleansing what ever you want to call it and Palestine the land is still there , but a smiling Chancellor Netanyahu has announced there are no more Palestinians , we have succeeded with the final solution.

PS by the way you think it feasible that a palestinian being bombed by an invader is going to deliver Hamas to Israel , the scum doing the bombing?
Hamas rockets have barely killed any Israelis and if they have its minuscule as to the number Israel has murdered. Israel is starting to look like bloody ISIL, WITH ITS KILL AND KILL POLICY.
THE GIRL IN THAT CLIP STATING WHAT YOU ARE STATING, THAT PALESTINE SHOULD BE BOMBED INTO THE GROUND, DID YOU SEE THE CLIP.
JEWS LIKE THAT HAVE TO BE LOOKED AT IS BLIND IGNORANT HALF WITS.
And you know what, that murderous bitch on a hill watching the killing , she has a big fat USA accent , FFS, when did high living American Jews need a bloody new home at the cost of a childs guts hanging out or a childs brains splattered all over the place. I wish that ignorant piece of garbage some misery of her own to see what real life is.
If you can condone that sort of thinking then you are a half brained twit with Sarah Palin brain power.Hah.
Click to expand...

:drunk:
 
All Israel needs to do - and this needn't even affect the Zionist idea of a Jewish homeland free from persecution by others - is to set up an equal-opportunity state with IRON-CLAD human rights protections for all. It should drop all 'official' aims to be a Jewish State and concentrate on being a secular state for all citizens and for all faiths.

Jews have every right to feel safe wherever they reside.
Muslims have every right to feel safe wherever they reside.
Christians have every right to feel safe wherever they reside.
All faiths have every right to feel safe wherever they reside.
All ethnic groups have every right to feel safe wherever they reside.
NO GROUP has any right to make others feel unsafe wherever they reside.

I believe that all sides in this Palestine/Israel conflict could form a 'moderate majority' if a true and lasting secular nation was born out of the scrapping of the Jewish State as a political entity. The hardliners of BOTH SIDES must be sidelined.

The only way is through recognition of the common humanity of each side. They all live there. They ALL belong. 'Homeland' need not mean exclusion to others.
 
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