Universal Love Not Boo-ing Goodes

[SpeciousArgument]

Booing at a someone who throws an elbow during a match has been part of spectator sport since day dot.

Singling out a player and booing that player for who they are 17 or so weeks in a row is not part of the game.

Banning booing is a stupid suggestion as it serves no purpose. But when a ground swell of people say "let's ease up on the Adam Goodes booing" why is there vigourous opposition?

Why is being told not to boo now an issue, when it was not an issue when people said lay off booing Watson?
Let's revisit some of this.
http://www.perthnow.com.au/sport/af...low-champ-watson/story-fniv5weh-1226671117757
http://wwos.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=8681351

Listen to the commentary at 38sec


Why did the booing not last 17 rounds? Why wasn't Watson lambasted as a sook when the booing visibly upset him?

http://www.ibtimes.com.au/jobe-wats...t-after-getting-booed-west-coast-fans-1311618

After being booed in round 14 and round 16.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-08-28/dont-boo-jobe-hardwick

Eventually the booing stopped and not many were fighting hard to retain the right to boo a player to tears. Now a whole section of the fan base IS fighting for the right to continually boo and if Goodes shows any signs of faltering it is a weakness and he is a sook???

A once of boo is clearly for the act in question. If it is repeated is becomes harassment and bullying.

Fine boo Jobe once for being a drug cheat....... But no sane person would want to see him emotionally destroyed after persistent and continual booing.

So why boo Goodes anymore? Because people want to remind him that the actively pointed out racism and that he shouldn't do that and to let it slide.

The difference is there was not a concerted effort by the paul little, the afl and the media to portray booing watson as racist when it wasnt.

The AFL and the media are fueling this shitstorm, not dealing with it.

 

[Mattrox]

The first thing to get right is that he has not been booed every game for 17 rounds. Thats just not true. He has been booed in certain games with certain teams. My mate lives in Sydney and goes to all Swans home games. I rang him about 15 minutes ago and asked him if Adam was being booed at Sydney home games and he said no, that the only time there has been anything like it was after he did his war dance.
The times it has been highlighted was against The Hawks and West Coast mainly
So dont make it bigger than it is.
Secondly it only happened during game time, in those games. He isnt followed around the streets getting booed, people arnt going to his training and booing him. There is no systematic bullying of him. In a couple of games got booed.
He was dropped to the seconds for a number of games so he hasnt even played 17 AFL games this year to be booed in.

Goodes has been copping s**t since the start of this season. When he sent himself back to the twos for a full game due to a lack of match fitness, he copped the commentary that he was arrogant for not wanting to be sub. Why wasn't he being praised for team 1st thinking and allowing room for younger players to have a spot in the 22? The increasing booing over the last few rounds is about an incident that happened in 2013. While using a touch of hyperbole, I did not actually say he was booed every single round, including home games and games he has missed. The Goodes situation has been festering away since that Collingwood game for some, his Australian of the Year award for others and Bolt's article which implies links his commentary on Utopia with his Australian of the Year title for others still. And when he stands up for himself, there is an overwhelming voice saying "now you are sooking". That IS systematic bullying.

It doesn't matter if it only happened in game time. What if a work colleague of yours had a client who thought you were a sanctimonious prick and booed you consistently at work...... But his justification is that he didn't follow you home doing it because you are only a sanctimonious prick at work?

It is systematic because when there is a suggestion that it should stop, people refuse and fight for the right to continue to boo him because of the stand he takes.

And many justifications of his booing are based on partial truths or complete misconceptions.

 

[adelaidecrows]

It's impossible to say how I'd personally react to a situation where I'd been repeatedly subjected to "something bad", especially on the level of what's happening to Goodes. Everybody is vastly different in that regard. I imagine it's not a great place to be for a start, so all bets would be off.

I'm certainly not foolish enough to assume to know what it is Goodes should do moving forward, suggest options and why that will "help him". I'm sure Alan Jones is no expert in that regard, likewise anyone on fox footy. Back to me, how the f*ck would I know what will be best for Adam Goodes? I don't know him from a bar of soap. Actually ok, here's something - I would've thought playing footy with his mates might help him take his mind off it......

On the other point, you say there's no proof he's being booed for racist reasons, so we can rule that out? Go have a read of thread on the main board, or any other social media, and tell me with a straight face it's all 100% "because he's a flog". Short of a person sticking their hand up and saying "yep, I boo him because he's black and I don't like what he stands for", the line about no proof can be used I guess. Nice and convenient.

Also, coming from your side of this argument, please help me to understand something, because I'm genuinely interested in this: why would somebody who booes Adam Goodes because they don't like him, still intend to do so if it meant they'd be considered a potential racist by other people at the footy not booing him?

I never said it wasnt racist i have just always said with no proof of it being racist and so many other factors in play I just think its too simple to just call it racism and i feel its a conclusion too many have lept too too quickly. 5% of the crowd may have taken the opportunity to be racist. Nobody knows but the people who booed. Thats my point.

 

[Cleric]

This. This. So much this.

Insinuating that white Australians are somehow victims of reverse racism in this situation... I can't even... Disingenuous is the nice way of putting it.

You missed the point buddy. Nothing about reverse racism at all.
Jenny said that when Adam threw his spear that white people shouldnt be offended because we can use discression and laugh it off. She then intimated that Adam however is not capable of using discreesion and doesnt have the strength of character to laugh the booing off.
Thats pretty damm insulting to Aboriginals.

 

[Mattrox]

The difference is there was not a concerted effort by the paul little, the afl and the media to portray booing watson as racist when it wasnt.

The AFL and the media are fueling this shitstorm, not dealing with it.

No but there was commentary that he is a "champion of the game" depite admitting to receiving injections of potentially performance enhancing substance.

And the booing is definitely racist because many the justifications are based around how he conducts himself as an Indigenous man.

 

[jenny61_99]

Absolutley you are displaying racism Jenny.
What you are saying is that black people cannot be held to the same standard as white people. That blacks dont have the same mental capacity to deal with adversity than whites. That they dont have the same moral grounding as whites, they they cannot be responsible for their action. You are treating them like a pet dog, or a simple child that needs your white protection. That they needs a white person like you to excuse them as you know they lack the same abilities as yourself.
Thats racism at its core.

What the actual *? You've completely lost the plot.

 

[Mattrox]

 

[Wood_Duck]

You don't think is possible to make a collage of arse clowns that are calling everyone racist at the moment. Seriously that's not even remotely clever.

 

[jenny61_99]

You missed the point buddy. Nothing about reverse racism at all.
Jenny said that when Adam threw his spear that white people shouldnt be offended because we can use discression and laugh it off. She then intimated that Adam however is not capable of using discreesion and doesnt have the strength of character to laugh the booing off.
Thats pretty damm insulting to Aboriginals.

When the * did I say that? Stop putting words into my mouth.

 

[Mattrox]

You missed the point buddy. Nothing about reverse racism at all.
Jenny said that when Adam threw his spear that white people shouldnt be offended because we can use discression and laugh it off. She then intimated that Adam however is not capable of using discreesion and doesnt have the strength of character to laugh the booing off.
Thats pretty damm insulting to Aboriginals.

Why is his war dance actually threatening and something that the crowd needs to be offended about?

 

[sbenno]

You missed the point buddy. Nothing about reverse racism at all.
Jenny said that when Adam threw his spear that white people shouldnt be offended because we can use discression and laugh it off. She then intimated that Adam however is not capable of using discreesion and doesnt have the strength of character to laugh the booing off.
Thats pretty damm insulting to Aboriginals.

I don't know what explanation Jenny gave about that, but that doesn't mean she's wrong.

If you're intimidated by an indigenous war dance, during afl indigenous round, perhaps you should consider that you might actually be an adult sized baby. Heck, that is one of the less violent actions during any afl match. Do the same people protest the all blacks when the do the haka?

And on reverse racism, if you're a white male, then Australian society is literally built to account specifically for you. I include myself in that. We do need to treat aboriginal Australians differently, until we can overcome the systematic racism they currently experience.

 

[Wood_Duck]

Why is his war dance actually threatening and something that the crowd needs to be offended about?

Why do they fine players for giving the bird to supporters?

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Goodes has been copping s**t since the start of this season. When he sent himself back to the twos for a full game due to a lack of match fitness, he copped the commentary that he was arrogant for not wanting to be sub. Why wasn't he being praised for team 1st thinking and allowing room for younger players to have a spot in the 22?

Why wasn't Andrew Jarman praised for doing something similar in 1996? Why was he sacked and never played for the club again?

I'm not sure this sort of sugar-coating helps the debate at all. The pro-Goodes people will list all the positive things he said about the incident with the Collingwood girl and Australia Day but they'll leave out the face of racism comment and the remember whose land you're on comments. And the anti-Goodes people do the opposite. They highlight the controversial things he did/said but leave out all his positive comments about Australia Day, his calls for education etc. Arguments seem to only be able to exist at the extreme ends. A bit like George Dubya's - you're either with us or you're with the terrorists.

 

[Cleric]

Why is his war dance actually threatening and something that the crowd needs to be offended about?

What people are threatned by is individual.
You might not think something isnt racist or offensive but others do. Obviously there were people who found Adam running at them in an aggressive manner and using the action of throwing a deadly weapon at them was offensive.
Why does Adam think being booed is offensive. I couldnt give two shits if I got booed. Should I judge Adam by my beliefs?

 

[Cleric]

I don't know what explanation Jenny gave about that, but that doesn't mean she's wrong.

If you're intimidated by an indigenous war dance, during afl indigenous round, perhaps you should consider that you might actually be an adult sized baby. Heck, that is one of the less violent actions during any afl match. Do the same people protest the all blacks when the do the haka?

And on reverse racism, if you're a white male, then Australian society is literally built to account specifically for you. I include myself in that. We do need to treat aboriginal Australians differently, until we can overcome the systematic racism they currently experience.

And so its okay then to say that Adam is acting like an oversized baby for having to take a week off due to some boos?

 

[SpeciousArgument]

No but there was commentary that he is a "champion of the game" depite admitting to receiving injections of potentially performance enhancing substance.

And the booing is definitely racist because many the justifications are based around how he conducts himself as an Indigenous man.

No. No. Stop right there. I call Shenanigans.

Shame on you.

 

[Cleric]

I don't know what explanation Jenny gave about that, but that doesn't mean she's wrong.

If you're intimidated by an indigenous war dance, during afl indigenous round, perhaps you should consider that you might actually be an adult sized baby. Heck, that is one of the less violent actions during any afl match. Do the same people protest the all blacks when the do the haka?

And on reverse racism, if you're a white male, then Australian society is literally built to account specifically for you. I include myself in that. We do need to treat aboriginal Australians differently, until we can overcome the systematic racism they currently experience.

We dont treat anybody differently. Hitler treated the jews differently. Russia treats gay people differently.
Thats bullshit. The same rights apply to all.
Please give me examples of this systematic racism?

 

[Deaneus!]

 

[Dandy_GO]

Absolutley you are displaying racism Jenny.
What you are saying is that black people cannot be held to the same standard as white people. That blacks dont have the same mental capacity to deal with adversity than whites. That they dont have the same moral grounding as whites, they they cannot be responsible for their action. You are treating them like a pet dog, or a simple child that needs your white protection. That they needs a white person like you to excuse them as you know they lack the same abilities as yourself.
Thats racism at its core.

Dreadful post. Just dreadful.

What you are arguing is that it's bigotry to take positive steps to help improve the situation of a disadvantaged group simply because you've identified that they are, indeed, disadvantaged by society and, therefore, things need to change. Identifying disadvantage does NOT suggest any fault on the victim's part. Wanting to help a group who are, on average, far worse off than others in many ways does NOT suggest you think any less of that group. All it suggests is that you recognise an imbalance within society against a group and have a desire to fix such an injustice.

The entire goal is to make sure inequality and bigotry are stamped out. Inequality exists, and we can measure this in all kinds of ways. Redressing this imbalance requires action. Trying to represent positive actions (in this case something as simple as not booing) as racist is truly nauseating.

 

[sbenno]

And so its okay then to say that Adam is acting like an oversized baby for having to take a week off due to some boos?

Some boo's? Are you suggesting he's not booed more than anyone else?

He's been regularly booed throughout basically the whole season!

Imagine if the Sydney team, every time they scored a goal, directed their aggression specifically at you, and only you. Would you be affected or intimidated?

Suggesting this is an isolated incident is just more disingenuousness.

 

[Slippery Pete]

It doesn't matter if it only happened in game time. What if a work colleague of yours had a client who thought you were a sanctimonious prick and booed you consistently at work...... But his justification is that he didn't follow you home doing it because you are only a sanctimonious prick at work?

It's a sporting arena where people pay to watch competitors.

Your comparison is very poor.

 

[ftmch]

I reckon one of the biggest factors here is once the notion of racism starts getting bandied around by the media, regardless of how loosely the issue actually does correlate racism , people - and particularly professional organisations - s**t their dacks and feel compelled to speak out against it, for fear of being labelled apathetic towards the cause. It doesn't matter whether they believe the issue does actually relate to racism (which I reckon most of them still probably don't), once it's tarred with that brush, they really have no choice.

So the AFL and the clubs come out and actively denounce racism, which validates the loosely based association initiated by the media to start with, and suddenly fiction becomes fact and it snowballs from there.

So I'm now in the completely ridiculous f'ing position where if I want to complain about Adam Goodes as a footballer, or Adam Goodes as an Australian of the Year, I'm now effectively being defined by most professional organisations associated with this issue, as a racist (or at least being on the 'racist' side of the debate).

All of this in spite of the fact that I am a mature, educated man who genuinely detests racism in the many forms it can take.

I'm rapidly coming to the opinion that I'm the victim out of all of this.

 

[sbenno]

We dont treat anybody differently. Hitler treated the jews differently. Russia treats gay people differently.
Thats bullshit. The same rights apply to all.
Please give me examples of this systematic racism?

Abbott removing funding from aboriginal communities because of their "life style choices".

Assuming everyone speaks English.

Not seeing aboriginal people represented in media and positions of power.

The difference in life expectancy and health outcomes between white and black Australians.

Would you like more examples of systematic racism?

 

[Cleric]

What the actual ****? You've completely lost the plot.

Not at all, its you who doesnt have a grip of what is racism and what isnt.
I have put forward reasons why I think Adam the individual may not able to handle the booing as good as others may be. I have said that he may be dealing with other issues we are not aware of such as depression.
I am certainly not going to say the reason he is not able to deal with it well is because he is an Aboriginal. Thats racist by any measure.
For you to say the reason he is unable to deal with it but a white person should is because he is an Aboriginal and has had to deal with racism and adversity his whole life.
Thats rubbish. Plenty of Aboriginals deal with it fine, and people like Anthony Mundine thrive on it. It drives and motivates them.
No sporting person is hated nearly as much as Mundine is.

 

[Slippery Pete]

Why is his war dance actually threatening and something that the crowd needs to be offended about?

Strawman.

Do as many war dances and throw as many imaginary spears as you want.

Then cop what comes back.

That's sport.

But what you seem to be advocating here is a one-way street. Crowds must sit in silence as opposition players throw imaginary spears at them.

And you wonder why there is division.