Opinion Our coaches, leadership, game style, and everything else

[bungee]

Vicious circle Bungee, started by Horse implementing the U11 game plan, players followed suit and brought their u11 skills.

Can't agree. That argument is illogical.

Can you really imagine that the players get frustrated with the game plan so they stand in front of goal and miss easy set shots ? Our game in the first quarter was just as good as WCE and, despite missing our big forwards, we generated the inside 50s and the shots at goal that we needed to match them. The game plan ends there. The rest is supposed to be a mere formality as player x takes an easy set shot and goals.

 

[Number37]

Can't agree. That argument is illogical.

Can you really imagine that the players get frustrated with the game plan so they stand in front of goal and miss easy set shots ? Our game in the first quarter was just as good as WCE and, despite missing our big forwards, we generated the inside 50s and the shots at goal that we needed to match them. The game plan ends there. The rest is supposed to be a mere formality as player x takes an easy set shot and goals.

Not entirely illogical if you look deep enough. The pressure on our goal kickers is ramped up because our game plan is not creating enough scoring opportunties.
Poor Sammy would have been feeling it big time on Sunday. The 1st miss was bad, the other 3 he would have been looking for a hole.
West Coast last year had major kicking problems, amazing what a bit of confidence does. Last week Darling and Kennedy never looked like missing and looked as brash as Wayne Carey lining up for goal like there was no pressure. Compare that to Sammy, looked like he was shitting himself.

 

[melbournehammer]

I was half inclined to take a break from big footy because I am over the whole thing but I will say this - our game plan, and it may have been Cinderella man who first articulated it, simply does not provide reward for effort. Our dominant periods do not lead to enough points or scoring opportunities.

This creates a problem if you are only converting about 1 in every 2 shots. The Hawks on the other hand take lots of shots from 20 metres out because that is where Breust Gunston etc receive the ball. We have buddy and Tippett marking forty metres out and no crumb ears closer to goal.

We need to find a way in 2016 to get more shots from inside 20 than from outside fifty.

 

[MarkP]

Can't agree. That argument is illogical.

Can you really imagine that the players get frustrated with the game plan so they stand in front of goal and miss easy set shots ? Our game in the first quarter was just as good as WCE and, despite missing our big forwards, we generated the inside 50s and the shots at goal that we needed to match them. The game plan ends there. The rest is supposed to be a mere formality as player x takes an easy set shot and goals.

Last week 28 scoring shots to 16. If we had converted perfectly we still would have lost.

Prior week 31 shots to 22. Again, if we had kicked 22 straight we still lose.

Prior to that against the Lions we kicked 70 points or 10 10. Only one team has kicked less against them this year, Port and they lost, 65 points. Scores against the Lions average 101 points or 45% odd more than we did. In fact we have kicked over 100 only 3 times this year.

Against Port 24 scoring shots all. We were a tad better scoring 94 points beat them by 10. On average they are giving up 88 points a game so we did ok.

Richmond 11 11 for 77 points. Average.... but 77 points. Against the Tigers? At the SCG?

And nothing further back makes any more encouraging reading.

Fact is we can't score and it is getting worse.

Take last week. Arguably the Cokers took their foot right off the gas and we got some cheapie. Regardless it is very hard to not argue we suck at generating a score and the game plan is working. We had 12 points to half way through the third quarter. 12.

Observation, apart from the bare facts tells you that we are in strife.

Finally total goals kicked this year across the AFL is 3544 behinds 3152 or 1.12 to 1. We are going at 194 to 180 or 1.07 to 1 which is so close to average who cares.

In other words we convert as much as the league does, it is just we can't get the damn ball to a scoring opportunity enough to kick scores and that is all game plan.

Dolby indicting when we have Tippett, Buddy and apparently a gun mid field. Terrifying in fact. If Horse can't score with the cattle he has then sorry, that is Horse's issue.

 

[Jack2Jack]

3 games this year where we've kicked just 1 goal to half time (2 of them in Perth, where we'd likely be playing week 1 of finals if we somehow manage to cling to 4th)! Already dropped 3 home games as well (been behind at half time at every ANZ game, where we'll be playing week 1 of finals in the more likely scenario we drop to 5th or 6th). Pretty unacceptable for a team that apparently considers themselves premiership contenders.

The way we've been scoring could be more 1 goal halves to come to come. 1 goal in an hour have been pretty much heard of over the last 3 years, surely Horse isn't so blind to have noticed that our offensive game is almost non existent this season? I just cannot fathom the logic in this gameplan... why aren't we attacking? why are we so timid with our ball movement? what exactly did they take out of the GF last year?
If anything we should've been working on being more bold with our ball movement, not more cautious. Perhaps they should've watched more than just the 1st quarter in their "review", they clearly didn't see the part where we should be doing everything possible to keep the ball the f away from our back-half, not playing the "safe" game by chipping/retaining the ball around down there...definitely shouldn't still be trying to launch our attacks from there, that may work with slingshot but when you've got 2 big key forwards you want to be winning centre clearances and feeding them the ball quickly before numbers get back.
Very underwhelmed by the lack of improvement in centre bounces this year, would've thought that would be the biggest focus after the 2014 GF. Obviously having no ruckman doesn't help but the tireless efforts we put in only to get a scrummy nothing kick forward, compared to the ease of some of the clearances our opponents get is well and truly out of whack.

 

[The King!]

There are moments in games, where we look to be trying to attack, on replay i thought we started v the eagles looking to move it quickly, but we just revert back to safe horrid way if it fails

 

[Punts]

Should do one presser a year and they should just replay it after losses and before games .

Every presser is the same , today was strong brand of footy for longer , like we haven't heard that or after losses , contested ball , effective tackles

 

[The King!]

Its a fine line i guess, what would you say if you were horse?

 

[Punts]

Let's hit a target

 

[Punts]

forwards are not backman , we pushed to far up , centre clearance work etc etc etc

 

[The King!]

Id like to see him explain wtf they are meant to be doing and if they players are executing even slightly what he asks, comes across like they are following instruction

He should just say god we are shithouse at the moment, been crap all year

 

[Punts]

Heeneys hair is sexy , should give some to shaw and mcveigh what just somthing different .
Talk about banging the misso like hardwick does

 

[bungee]

Last week 28 scoring shots to 16. If we had converted perfectly we still would have lost.

Prior week 31 shots to 22. Again, if we had kicked 22 straight we still lose.

Prior to that against the Lions we kicked 70 points or 10 10. Only one team has kicked less against them this year, Port and they lost, 65 points. Scores against the Lions average 101 points or 45% odd more than we did. In fact we have kicked over 100 only 3 times this year.

Against Port 24 scoring shots all. We were a tad better scoring 94 points beat them by 10. On average they are giving up 88 points a game so we did ok.

Richmond 11 11 for 77 points. Average.... but 77 points. Against the Tigers? At the SCG?

And nothing further back makes any more encouraging reading.

Fact is we can't score and it is getting worse.

Take last week. Arguably the Cokers took their foot right off the gas and we got some cheapie. Regardless it is very hard to not argue we suck at generating a score and the game plan is working. We had 12 points to half way through the third quarter. 12.

Observation, apart from the bare facts tells you that we are in strife.

Finally total goals kicked this year across the AFL is 3544 behinds 3152 or 1.12 to 1. We are going at 194 to 180 or 1.07 to 1 which is so close to average who cares.

In other words we convert as much as the league does, it is just we can't get the damn ball to a scoring opportunity enough to kick scores and that is all game plan.

Dolby indicting when we have Tippett, Buddy and apparently a gun mid field. Terrifying in fact. If Horse can't score with the cattle he has then sorry, that is Horse's issue.

You're answering a question I never asked.

I quote : Our game in the first quarter was just as good as WCE and, despite missing our big forwards, we generated the inside 50s and the shots at goal that we needed to match them.

We buried ourselves in the first quarter through inaccuracy. 5.0 v 0.5

After that confidence goes out the window.

As to the cattle Horse has. Please don't think we have a perfect team on the park, far from it. We have a hobbled together team. We have a host of injuries and, thanks to an AFL trade ban, we have had to fill gaps with inexperienced players. Rohan, McGlynn, Tippet & Buddy would have made a difference to both our scoring efficiency and our forward pressure on the weekend. As for little Ted, he's no replacement for big Ted in terms of experience and general marshalling of the troops in the back line.

Personally I can't believe people are calling for the coach's head every time we lose a few in a row. Are we that used to winning ? We're even whining about the quality of our wins FFS.

 

[MarkP]

You're answering a question I never asked.

I quote : Our game in the first quarter was just as good as WCE and, despite missing our big forwards, we generated the inside 50s and the shots at goal that we needed to match them.

We buried ourselves in the first quarter through inaccuracy. 5.0 v 0.5

After that confidence goes out the window.

As to the cattle Horse has. Please don't think we have a perfect team on the park, far from it. We have a hobbled together team. We have a host of injuries and, thanks to an AFL trade ban, we have had to fill gaps with inexperienced players. Rohan, McGlynn, Tippet & Buddy would have made a difference to both our scoring efficiency and our forward pressure on the weekend. As for little Ted, he's no replacement for big Ted in terms of experience and general marshalling of the troops in the back line.

Personally I can't believe people are calling for the coach's head every time we lose a few in a row. Are we that used to winning ? We're even whining about the quality of our wins FFS.

Oh thank god for that.

I thought the team was playing s**t and couldn't score. I thought the game plan was putrid and denied us opportunities to goal. I thought the STATS showed that. You know stats. Stats man stats.

Now I see it is simply we oopsied a bit in the first quarter of the Cokers game and since we are a professional football side we had every right to chuck a tanty and say bugger it all this one is too hard. The playas were all like, I haz lost mah confidunce so i iz not playin anymoar today......or something like that.

Add to that our whopping injury list of 5 or so players from our best 22 clearly puts us behind any other team in the competition that don't have to struggle through the vicissitudes of outrageous fortune like us, so ...well s**t...it is allllllllll ok. It is not like the Cokers had any injuries at all. Or the Hawks. Or any other team we have played this year.

Glad you cleared that up for me.

Looking forward to playing the Hawks at the MCG in the finals. Or the Eagles maybe, perhaps Freo over there.

Don't matter. All is well.

 

[Jeffers]

Jesus still alot of this with a few Swans supporters it seems

 

[bedford]

Gee, that's clever. Please don't mention the lord.

 

[The King!]

Anytime i feel down on Longmire I try to remember he started when Hird did so hey it could be worse

 

[melbournehammer]

Oh thank god for that.

I thought the team was playing s**t and couldn't score. I thought the game plan was putrid and denied us opportunities to goal. I thought the STATS showed that. You know stats. Stats man stats.

Now I see it is simply we oopsied a bit in the first quarter of the Cokers game and since we are a professional football side we had every right to chuck a tanty and say bugger it all this one is too hard. The playas were all like, I haz lost mah confidunce so i iz not playin anymoar today......or something like that.

Add to that our whopping injury list of 5 or so players from our best 22 clearly puts us behind any other team in the competition that don't have to struggle through the vicissitudes of outrageous fortune like us, so ...well s**t...it is allllllllll ok. It is not like the Cokers had any injuries at all. Or the Hawks. Or any other team we have played this year.

Glad you cleared that up for me.

Looking forward to playing the Hawks at the MCG in the finals. Or the Eagles maybe, perhaps Freo over there.

Don't matter. All is well.

But again we know all this.

There are 3 possibilities (maybe a fourth) for our problems.

1. the game plan sucks and it wouldnt matter which players we had out there. variation of this is that every other team has worked the game plan out and are just able to counter everything we do. I tend to the view that this is called the hawthorn variation. They know that if we win it in the contest that we dont have the skills to do much other than bomb it long so they play spares at the back and run the ball out at will on the assumption that every 5 inside 50s will involve 4 spillages and 1 mark - only half of which are taken by swans players

2. the game plan is fine it is the implementation that is the problem. This appears to be where horse sits if we believe the press conferences. It is a variation of the roos commentary - we know we need all 22 competing at the highest possible level to be competitive in this really even league

3. the game plan is fine and the implementation is about as good as it can be but that injuries have lost the team its ability - I call this the 2013 variation where everyone said we were good just couldnt get a run on the field and were ultimately put to the sword by freo

4. the game plan is fine, implementation is fine and injuries are no worse than the rest of the league - its just that we arent actually that good. Call this the melbournehammer variation. I tend to the view that we have vastly underestimated how critically our game plan relied upon run from behind the ball over 15 years. Tadgh, Mattner, Shaw, Mal have consistently given our team the balance which it needs. You can even go back to schneider playing back pocket and paul williams. We have always had a kind of tough interior and good run. We are really unbalanced now as shaw is the only one who can provide run from behind the ball and we all know how hard it has been for him this season. a lot of our players are really down this season - particularly against the better teams - parker, jack, tippett, our rucks are just abysmal. Now either its 1, 2 or 3 but I tend the 4th - the team is unbalanced and poorly structured.

 

[The King!]

option 4 needs stronger consideration and going into next year it could be worse

 

[Millky95]

I'm confident for the rest of the season and next season Horse will work on a new gameplan and style. If he doesn't, then he should go as the game would have well and truly gone past him

 

[Lakeside Swan]

I hope Longmires watching Richmonds game tonight. He might learn something about playing against Hawthorn.

 

[The King!]

I hope Longmires watching Richmonds game tonight. He might learn something about playing against Hawthorn.

When are hawthorn this sloppy against us tho or is it all richmond

 

[Lakeside Swan]

Lots of blame going on the coaches but when players have a set shot from a hard won inside 50 and repeatedly miss it doesn't help. Our skills have dropped off and that comes down to individual players. As a result we get turnovers aplenty and end up with all our players staying defensive side as they have no confidence that we can carry the ball forward. Horse is working with an U11 team who, regardless of any pressure, simply can't hit targets. No coach can win a game if their players are simply not up to it.

I thought Longmire was responsible for the skills of our players? If they don't have the skills it's his responsibility to teach them or trade them.

 

[robbieando]

When are hawthorn this sloppy against us tho or is it all richmond

Round 8

 

[Lakeside Swan]

When are hawthorn this sloppy against us tho or is it all richmond

I think this is because of the pressure being applied by Richmond. Could be wrong tho.